526

[lfigueroa]

We all get that clean equipment performs better than dirty equipment. The question is, why do you think that's a bad thing?

Is the game meant to be played under subpar conditions? The enormous skill of running 527+ not sufficient, the player must fight additional obstacles? Is it ok he takes a piss break or cleans his cue?


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android

Here's what I know: I don't own a pool table. But I do take my own set of balls to the pool hall and I run them through a Diamond ball polisher beforehand. IME, the balls come apart very easily for the first few racks and then the more play they get you start getting less of a spread and need to go into the balls more often to break up secondary clusters and you generally have to work the rack more. And that's the way it should be, IMO.

Is there "a bright red line" on what's appropriate? No. But I think, that's just me, that once you start a run the balls should not be polished. The run *should* get harder the longer it continues.

I guess they could chisel in a stair case near the top of Everest to make the ascent easier, or maybe we can all start to accommodate the guy who wants the balls run through the polisher every time it's his break, or if that's too much, at least run a min-vac over the cloth or at least brush it down for him.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

dont take this wrong way but your runs end well before balls get dirty. so u arent plagued with runs lasting so long balls get gummy etc.
i think i might have run 200 then recleaned on way to 366,both 400 pluses never touched them.
i think corey might have cleaned them at 150 on way to 229.
anyway i wouldnt clean them to break open better. on new cloth ,tight racks they break open great anyway. its to get rid of chalk and hand oil to get rid of skids. an afficianado like u should know that.
i think the true key to be a great player is to play 4x8 ,new cloth,carry own waxed balls around,only play 30 ball runners in exibition if possible,be seeded into finals for world championship,duck on money games citing sponsor contracts and of course its actually not wanting to lose in front of crowd,.
im too close to the game of course to see things clearly but this is what many experts of those days tell me anyway.
on a side note i hate street parking.inside joke but u know what i mean .

John, you lost me a ways back when you said I just like to hear myself talk. Besides, I'm not a 300 ball runner, so why are you even bothering stooping to discuss this with me.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Never mind the smaller tables and bigger pockets the "classic" players used. That in no way had anything to do with their "big time runs."

I think traveling back and forth across the country for years playing on all kinds of different equipment, the old-timers saw a little bit of everything.

Lou Figueroa

 

[CreeDo]

The run *should* get harder the longer it continues.
...
I guess they could chisel in a stair case near the top of Everest to make the ascent easier

It's not like chiseling a staircase, any more than dirty balls are like erecting a barricade near the top. It's more like knocking the ice off your cleats to decrease the odds of a fatal slip.

I don't sense you're budging so I guess agree to disagree... For me the inherent challenge (plus the added pressure as one gets closer to a record) is enough. I don't see the logic in "easily spread balls is legit if it happens in the first five minutes, but not legit at the two hour mark". If the first rack is valid then rack thirty under identical conditions is equally valid.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Where does it say in the rule book that you can't clean the balls between racks?

What if you're drinking a beer and eating a cheese steak while racking your own balls? Should that high run get an asterisk since they ran a huge number under grease ball conditions?

If there was such thing as a Diamond ball polisher in Mosconi's days, he wouldn't have attended an exhibition without one...believe it.

If the dude wouldn't play on a table without brand-new cloth (which is just as OCD as cleaning balls) or without his personal set of Perfecto Balls, a Diamond polisher would have given him a pool orgasm.

Mosconi strikes me as someone who likely moisturized his hands and you think he wouldn't have buffed balls if he could quickly ad-hoc if that option existed? Gimme a break.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Furthermore, if Mosconi had the choice between playing on a 4x8 with basketball-sized pockets with new cloth and his Perfecto Balls (no buffing) versus playing on a 4.5x9 with 4.5" pockets with old cloth and old balls (with the ability to insta-buff), he'd choose the 4x8 because it's an easier setup by far...much more conducive for a galaxian run.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[KRJ]

dont take this wrong way but your runs end well before balls get dirty. so u arent plagued with runs lasting so long balls get gummy etc.
i think i might have run 200 then recleaned on way to 366,both 400 pluses never touched them.
i think corey might have cleaned them at 150 on way to 229.
anyway i wouldnt clean them to break open better. on new cloth ,tight racks they break open great anyway. its to get rid of chalk and hand oil to get rid of skids. an afficianado like u should know that.
i think the true key to be a great player is to play 4x8 ,new cloth,carry own waxed balls around,only play 30 ball runners in exibition if possible,be seeded into finals for world championship,duck on money games citing sponsor contracts and of course its actually not wanting to lose in front of crowd,.
im too close to the game of course to see things clearly but this is what many experts of those days tell me anyway.
on a side note i hate street parking.inside joke but u know what i mean .

So, just to be clear, Lou is NOT allowed to criticize or otherwise engage your playing skills, and/or character.

But, you are quite allowed to tear down one of the greatests that ever played the game because you were once a pro pool player.

And just so you are aware, I almost never agree or defend Lou on this forum..... But attacking a great on a pool forum by another great seems a bit jealous and kinda small imho..... but I'm not a pro pool player, so I can be ignored.... carry on :wink:

 

[arnaldo]

One of the best articles ever written about Mosconi, his character, and respecting the game (a two-page article):

Sports Illustrated -- April 1955:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1129513/index.htm

*No one* is fit to tear this man down, especially not a pro player.

Arnaldo

 

[RBC]

Well, of course you are entitled to your opinion, but mine is that that is far, far from from what has been going on (doesn't hurt to pick up the CB now and then either).

IMO, the central issue is that guys have figured out that they can put up bigger runs if they constantly run the balls through a polisher as the run goes on, so that the balls pop open like a bag of spilt popcorn when they hit a break shot. It's a significant difference for a player going for a big time run, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

I don't know you, but I'm sure we've probably crossed path at some time. I'd welcome an introduction the next time you see me in the booth at an event. Maybe the SBE if you'll be there.

As for the cleaning the balls thing, I know John has gotten somewhat of a bad rep for that. But I don't think it's quite what you may think. I witnessed John run the 403 at QMasters. It was on an old dirty gold crown with house balls. He may have asked them to clean them before he started, but he didn't touch them during the run. I don't think he ever even thought about it. He was flying around the table and making balls. It went really fast. I think it only took 1 1/2 or 2 hours!

Anyway, it was a site to see for sure.

I'd love to see John beat the record. I absolutely believe he can do it. I also understand completely why he doesn't put any special effort to do it. If it were to happen during a normal practice session, nobody would believe him, and the hassle to setup to record it and keep all the detectives happy make it something other than just a practice session.

I look forward to meeting you some time.

Thanks

 

[backplaying]

dont take this wrong way but your runs end well before balls get dirty. so u arent plagued with runs lasting so long balls get gummy etc.
i think i might have run 200 then recleaned on way to 366,both 400 pluses never touched them.
i think corey might have cleaned them at 150 on way to 229.
anyway i wouldnt clean them to break open better. on new cloth ,tight racks they break open great anyway. its to get rid of chalk and hand oil to get rid of skids. an afficianado like u should know that.
i think the true key to be a great player is to play 4x8 ,new cloth,carry own waxed balls around,only play 30 ball runners in exibition if possible,be seeded into finals for world championship,duck on money games citing sponsor contracts and of course its actually not wanting to lose in front of crowd,.
im too close to the game of course to see things clearly but this is what many experts of those days tell me anyway.
on a side note i hate street parking.inside joke but u know what i mean .

I forgot what past champion player it was that said he beat Willie once and Willie wouldn't speak to him for a year. I think it was Kelly.
I think I read in a book that it was already established that Willie wouldn't play certain players in exibitions unless they agreed that only he could win. I have heard from more than one older player that Willie was a a$$hole. Guess how a player would be torn apart on here if he acted like Mosconi did? I would take John now against Willie when he was in his prime.

 

[KRJ]

I forgot what past champion player it was that said he beat Willie once and Willie wouldn't speak to him for a year. I think it was Kelly.
I think I read in a book that it was already established that Willie wouldn't play certain players in exibitions unless they agreed that only he could win. I have heard from more than one older player that Willie was a a$$hole. Guess how a player would be torn apart on here if he acted like Mosconi did? I would take John now against Willie when he was in his prime.

Oh, you heard it from a guy, who heard it around,,,, thanks, I'm glad all the facts are out on the table. And we know "aholes" are strictly verboten in pool. but I beileve the topic is NOT personalities......

 

[john schmidt]

hi

So, just to be clear, Lou is NOT allowed to criticize or otherwise engage your playing skills, and/or character.

But, you are quite allowed to tear down one of the greatests that ever played the game because you were once a pro pool player.

And just so you are aware, I almost never agree or defend Lou on this forum..... But attacking a great on a pool forum by another great seems a bit jealous and kinda small imho..... but I'm not a pro pool player, so I can be ignored.... carry on :wink:

i deserved that but honestly i have more respect then probably anybody on here because i actually have a real sense how great he played.
i said those things to piss off lou, thats all. you have to read between the lines. the more lou belittles me and the players of today the more i belittle his hero and players of yesteryear.
in closing mosconi was super awesome in my opinion. period.

 

[backplaying]

Oh, you heard it from a guy, who heard it around,,,, thanks, I'm glad all the facts are out on the table. And we know "aholes" are strictly verboten in pool. but I beileve the topic is NOT personalities......

I think it was in Alfs book The other side of the road.

 

[KRJ]

i deserved that but honestly i have more respect then probably anybody on here because i actually have a real sense how great he played.
i said those things to piss off lou, thats all. you have to read between the lines. the more lou belittles me and the players of today the more i belittle his hero and players of yesteryear.
in closing mosconi was super awesome in my opinion. period.

Fair enough, but have at Lou and let old Willie RIP...

For the record, I like the old and new players..... I really don't think there are any pro pool players I don't like, I mean,, besides you... I kid, I kid.... have a good one

 

[Donkey Bruce]

i deserved that but honestly i have more respect then probably anybody on here because i actually have a real sense how great he played.
i said those things to piss off lou, thats all. you have to read between the lines. the more lou belittles me and the players of today the more i belittle his hero and players of yesteryear.
in closing mosconi was super awesome in my opinion. period.

Can you give me some examples of how Lou belittles you and players of today please?

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Donk, I think the issue is when Capt. Lou implies runs are contaminated by cleaning the balls mid-run and that guys like John do it so the rack splits open like a split bag of popcorn, he's basically calling him a cheater.

He's ignoring the fact that maybe John cleans balls to avoid skids because of sticky Kamui dust and all sorts of stuff that tables didn't have on them in 1945. It's amazing to me how Albano knocks John for cleaning balls; yet, Willie refused to play any exhibition unless the table had new cloth and he had his personal set of siliconed-up balls. Lou should know that since he stole Willie's cue ball once when his poor hero wasn't looking.

It's ironic how Lou is on the lifestyles of the rich and famous now when years ago he was he was stealing Mosconi's most important ball to his private set. I wonder if that's the CB he uses in his private set today?

Before he says he was a kid who didn't know any better, he knew enough to go to pool exhibitions so he didn't fall off the pumpkin truck. Maybe he did it for yucks, eh?

;-)

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

I don't know you, but I'm sure we've probably crossed path at some time. I'd welcome an introduction the next time you see me in the booth at an event. Maybe the SBE if you'll be there.

As for the cleaning the balls thing, I know John has gotten somewhat of a bad rep for that. But I don't think it's quite what you may think. I witnessed John run the 403 at QMasters. It was on an old dirty gold crown with house balls. He may have asked them to clean them before he started, but he didn't touch them during the run. I don't think he ever even thought about it. He was flying around the table and making balls. It went really fast. I think it only took 1 1/2 or 2 hours!

Anyway, it was a site to see for sure.

I'd love to see John beat the record. I absolutely believe he can do it. I also understand completely why he doesn't put any special effort to do it. If it were to happen during a normal practice session, nobody would believe him, and the hassle to setup to record it and keep all the detectives happy make it something other than just a practice session.

I look forward to meeting you some time.

Thanks

Hi, Royce. I think the thing about John having a bad rep for cleaning the balls, comes mostly from his DVDs. On his last one, I was especially taken aback when he picks up the CB a couple of times to clean it. And I wasn't alone being struck by that. At the DCC some of us were talking about it and how "it just ain't right." But that was a group of amateurs and I doubt John would care much about our opinions anyway.

Royce, I don't think we've met. I won't be at the SBE but will be at Tunica and Vegas. I'll make a point of introducing myself the next time I see your booth up.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Can you give me some examples of how Lou belittles you and players of today please?

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For those interested here is a thread from four years ago. It's really kind of remarkable because the story arc in this thread is almost indentical to this one. In it, John tilts at windmills, puts down the opinions of some very knowledge posters, and belittles Mosconi. I think I only make two posts towards the end of the thread, but I was so blown away by what I was reading back then it stuck with me.

it explains *a lot.*

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=129966

Lou Figueroa

 

[Donkey Bruce]

For those interested here is a thread from four years ago. It's really kind of remarkable because the story arc in this thread is almost indentical to this one. In it, John tilts at windmills, puts down the opinions of some very knowledge posters, and belittles Mosconi. I think I only make two posts towards the end of the thread, but I was so blown away by what I was reading back then it stuck with me.

it explains *a lot.*

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=129966

Lou Figueroa

Extraordinary...

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[john schmidt]

hi

Hi, Royce. I think the thing about John having a bad rep for cleaning the balls, comes mostly from his DVDs. On his last one, I was especially taken aback when he picks up the CB a couple of times to clean it. And I wasn't alone being struck by that. At the DCC some of us were talking about it and how "it just ain't right." But that was a group of amateurs and I doubt John would care much about our opinions anyway.

Royce, I don't think we've met. I won't be at the SBE but will be at Tunica and Vegas. I'll make a point of introducing myself the next time I see your booth up.

Lou Figueroa

lets just agree to disagree. no biggie. many people loved and hated willie. many people love and hate me for different reasons.
your not a bad guy lou and a decent player.
its not like your saying im a murderer , so if i cleaned qball and thats about the worst thing u cant bring up about my 14.1 game then ill live.
im not perfect but i dont think wanting a clean qball makes me the devil or a cheater .
later