Optimal Shot Speed

"Pocket speed"

peteypooldude said:
What would be the optimal shot speed. Too slow they may roll off
and too hard the pocket gets tighter. 8 mph maybe ?
Bob ?
Click to expand...

If you mean what speed gives you the best chance of pocketing an object ball, the simple answer is that is varies from table to table, and even on the same table because of humidity.

If you're talking about the best speed to accomplish everything you want to accomplish on a particular shot, - offense, position, defense, etc. - that's another thing.

There's also another definition of "pocket speed" that varies according to what game you're playing...
 
In 9/10 ball, its generally ideal to shoot at the speed that is most likely to send the ball to the center of the pocket (minimize contact throw, table roll, and skids), rather than to try and maximize the pocket size by rolling the ball at the pocket. This is of course assuming you can make position either way.

A slightly harder speed also makes it less likely to hang the ball in the event that you do happen to miss.
 
Food for thought.....the table is in feet and not miles time in in hours and not seconds, yet when discussing speed often times mile per hour is used as a measurement of speed.

Using the speed range of 4/9 mph that was mentioned, here is what these equal to in feet per second and inches per second, since often times your are moving the CB only inches in short period of time.

4 mph= 5.8666 feet per second(that's over 1/2 a 9ft table in a second)
70.4 inches per second

9 mph= 13.2 feet per second(that's more than a 9ft table in a second)
158.4 inches per second

and just to go the the low end

1 mph= 1.4666 foot per second
17.6 inches per second

The distance between the diamonds on the table is 15 inches.

So next time shooting, do the "one thousand and one" time counting trick and see how far the CB rolls.

I don't use the terms soft, firm or hard to define the hit needed on the CB because no one has the same understanding of what those subjective terms truly mean. I just say you have it hit the CB just right to get the speed you want for the CB. It is up to the other person to figure out what hit that is for them.

There is no one best speed. A player must be able to use any speed needed to pocket the balls. One of the tables I play on, the OB will roll off on certain corner shots. I adjust my cue speed to hit the CB as needed to make this adjustment.
 
the cue ball dictates shot speed

There are exceptions but almost every shot, the cue ball dictates the shot speed. The object ball can be pocketed with a wide range of speeds. What is the least you can move the cue ball around to accomplish what you need to do? That is the correct speed for that shot almost without exception.

Here is some video of Earl and Buddy. The whole thing shows speed pretty good but watch Earl running that first rack down to the eight. Nothing like playing Buddy Hall to take the cowboy out of your stroke! Note later in the video that Earl gets in shape trouble when he hits a shot harder than he needs to had he used different english leaving him on the fifty yard line.

By the way, considering how badly Earl missed the eight ball straight in that first rack he must have been a "C" player at best by AZB standards in 1988! Are "C" players world beaters or is there something wrong with AZB ratings? Rhetorical question, later posters please don't reply to this paragraph or start a new thread to do it.

Hu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqlbpCxxOW4
 
The idea may not be worth while
At the time I posted the thread my frame of thought was to get an optimal
speed and use the break shot app to dial the stroke in. My thought was I could create a base line and work slightly above and below that speed with consistency for speed control. As the game has been studied more over the last few years I thought they may have put a number on this also.
I am always looking for something to keep the game interesting. When I'm spending table time working or experimenting on anything it seems to keep my level of play up. Could be the W--d lol
 
peteypooldude said:
At the time I posted the thread my frame of thought was to get an optimal
speed and use the break shot app to dial the stroke in. My thought was I could create a base line and work slightly above and below that speed with consistency for speed control.l
Click to expand...

I tried something close to this a few weeks ago. I found that my BreakSpeed app didn't like soft hits; maybe not enough sound to trigger the "start" and "end" of each shot. Breaks tend to be a little louder.
 
It also changes based on whether the rails are getting involved or not.

A rolled ball has a better chance of catching the rail and still bobbling in.
There are two situations where that comes into play a lot... rail cuts (esp. where OB is nearly frozen), and short-side shots into a distant corner. Like CB 1 diamond off the side rail and foot rail, OB a foot away, shooting into the far corner like 6-7 feet away. It's not near the side rail at the start, but after travelling 90% of the way to the pocket, it will be.

That's where a rolling ball can help if you catch the rail on the way in.

If a ball is facing the pocket opening, and is unlikely to be be helped if it touches a rail (like the side pockets) then I think a firm hit to minimize skid etc. is good.
 
I took a lesson from Stevie Moore today and part of that time was spent playing some 9 ball. I thought of this thread as we spent a fair amount of time discussing this very subject. I was rather amazed at how soft Stevie hit the vast majority of his shots. He said 2 to 2 1/2 speed which isn't much more than lag. What became obvious however is that you have to have a good stroke in order to execute at that consistently. To be clear, there were some shots where Stevie had to kick it up a notch or two but that was definitely the exception rather than the rule. I certainly could see where I needed to change some things by watching Stevie get around the table and make it seem so effortless.
 
ShootingArts said:
There are exceptions but almost every shot, the cue ball dictates the shot speed. The object ball can be pocketed with a wide range of speeds. What is the least you can move the cue ball around to accomplish what you need to do? That is the correct speed for that shot almost without exception....
Click to expand...
While this is true for any single shot and probably true for most shots, I think some players will play for position that allows them to hit the ball at higher or lower speed. An example would be when you have to run a ball along the end rail and have to get down to the other end rail. Some players are happier with the thin cut and not much power and others like the straighter shot that will need to be powered for position.
 
Bob Jewett said:
While this is true for any single shot and probably true for most shots, I think some players will play for position that allows them to hit the ball at higher or lower speed. An example would be when you have to run a ball along the end rail and have to get down to the other end rail. Some players are happier with the thin cut and not much power and others like the straighter shot that will need to be powered for position.
Click to expand...

great stuff as always...ASSuming I read it correctly! I am on phone convincing people:o

I take your post as reminding us about angles.

Playing big angles is necessary on tight equipment, less necessary on easier tables.

That is almost as significant a factor in shot speed selection, as is pocket size.

I don't think there is an optimal shot speed. Perhaps there is an optimal range, but to me, the range would be no more defining than the range 'necessary to drive a car'.
 
both saying the same thing

Bob Jewett said:
While this is true for any single shot and probably true for most shots, I think some players will play for position that allows them to hit the ball at higher or lower speed. An example would be when you have to run a ball along the end rail and have to get down to the other end rail. Some players are happier with the thin cut and not much power and others like the straighter shot that will need to be powered for position.
Click to expand...


Bob,

We are both saying the same thing. Always exceptions and a thinking player plays the highest percentage shot for them at the moment including the highest percentage to finish the run. I never played three balls ahead, I played shape to dropping the money ball. I played a fair game of chess when I played my best pool and I often wonder if a part of Efren's edge isn't that he sees the table layouts better than most from playing chess. When you are used to playing three to five moves ahead on a chess board or even more with every possible move of the other player considered then a few different table patterns are duck soup.

Regardless of the "general rule" that the bank is always the tougher shot, I would often rather play an easy bank moving the cue ball a lot less for shape than a tough cut and the cue ball having to go much further. The totality of the shot controls what we choose and usually the overwhelming consideration is where we need to get the cue ball to.

Despite saying move it as little as possible if I can move the cue ball one rail through tight traffic or three rails through open green to get shape on the next shot I am going three rails almost every time. Sometimes the lighting or even an air conditioning vent blowing on a table makes me choose a certain shot. Pretty much every "rule" of good play is made to be broken but they wouldn't be "rules", meaning best practice here, if they shouldn't be followed most the time. Nothing wrong with breaking the rules of good play sometimes as long as you know exactly why you are breaking them and are sure in this particular instance it is to your advantage.

Hu
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top