Free tournaments could resurrect pool...

[Push&Pool]

Everyone's complaining how pool is doing worse and worse. There are less players each year, pool halls keep closing, payouts for professionals are low and so on. There are ways to change the situation. Quite a few ways actually. Still, nobody tried anything radical enough to launch pool back in the mainstream. I have this suggestion... Why owners of pool halls and bar tables wouldn't organize regular free or very-low-fee tournaments for the crowd? The problem is, many people just don't feel like paying so they won't even give the game a shot. If they had the opportunity to play some casual tornaments with friends, see how better players play, feel the joy of winning, I bet some of them would become more serious with the game. I'm not saying owners should stop requiring fees for normal tournaments, but I think it wouldn't hurt so bad to organize them once a week or at least once in two weeks. Combine that with free table time here and there, and there's the potential for pool to rise once again.

 

[vapoolplayer]

.................

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

New ideas are always good. At some point, someone will come up with an idea that might work. So its good to know that people care enuff to at least think about the problem.

But, when you mention, "combine that with free table time", thats where I would disagree.

Its easy to give something away for free when it isn't yourself that owns the stuff that will be given away.

Exactly how would the free table time be implemented? A couple of new faces come into your hall. You think, I will give these guys a free hour. I'm sure that they will appreciate the gesture but that probably won't make them interested in pool more than they were before.

Then, some of your regular paying customers get wind that you are giving away free table time. They will say, "hey, wheres our free table time".

If you were a room owner, would you want that on your hands?

At our hall, if the owner advertised a free pool tournament, all he would get is his regular customers playing in a free tournament.
And you know what, even if it were free, someone would figure out a way to complain about it.

At the old hall, before it closed, Sat and Sun afternoons were basically dead. I told them to advertise free pool lessons. Get Mom, Dad and the kids out. As a family unit.

Do you know how many single dads there are out there that would bring their son or daughter in for something different to do. Probably lots.

Then, when the lessons were done, after maybe 6 or 8 weekends, have a Family Scotch pool tourney.

This would be one way to generate interest. Obviously the kids wouldn't be old enuff to join a league but with all the Moms and Dads out there, they would be networking and maybe they could be recruited for the next season in a team.

With Sat and Sun afternoons being somewhat quieter, you could organize a small kids league after the lessons were over.

Offer advanced lessons after the beginner ones to keep the interest flowing. Moms and Dads would have to bring the kids to the hall if they were playing in a kids league.

See, the problem with all of this is that people, as in my city have good ideas but when it comes time to implement them, no one wants to take the initiative.

I offered to teach basic lessons. They could have gotten advanced players to teach as well, with payment being an hour or two of table time. Wouldn't have cost them anything other than a few hours of table time.

Families, Moms, Dads would be bringing the kids back on other days as well to practice. They would have sold drinks and food in the process and table time too. Win, win for all. Trouble was, even tho it was offered for free, no one wanted to get up and open the pool hall early.

You give Dad the option of bringing his son to the hall for a few games of pool or taking him to an arcade, what percentage of Dads do you think would opt for the hall.

Advertising is expensive. Nope. Tons of ways to do free advertising.

Maybe thats one of the reasons that the hall closed its doors. No one cared enuff to try different things. Hey, one idea doesn't work, thats ok, you just move onto the next idea.

Hahaha. I just did a John post. He will be proud of me.

 

[Push&Pool]

New ideas are always good. At some point, someone will come up with an idea that might work. So its good to know that people care enuff to at least think about the problem.

But, when you mention, "combine that with free table time", thats where I would disagree.

Its easy to give something away for free when it isn't yourself that owns the stuff that will be given away.

Exactly how would the free table time be implemented? A couple of new faces come into your hall. You think, I will give these guys a free hour. I'm sure that they will appreciate the gesture but that probably won't make them interested in pool more than they were before.

Then, some of your regular paying customers get wind that you are giving away free table time. They will say, "hey, wheres our free table time".

If you were a room owner, would you want that on your hands?

At our hall, if the owner advertised a free pool tournament, all he would get is his regular customers playing in a free tournament.
And you know what, even if it were free, someone would figure out a way to complain about it.

At the old hall, before it closed, Sat and Sun afternoons were basically dead. I told them to advertise free pool lessons. Get Mom, Dad and the kids out. As a family unit.

Do you know how many single dads there are out there that would bring their son or daughter in for something different to do. Probably lots.

Then, when the lessons were done, after maybe 6 or 8 weekends, have a Family Scotch pool tourney.

This would be one way to generate interest. Obviously the kids wouldn't be old enuff to join a league but with all the Moms and Dads out there, they would be networking and maybe they could be recruited for the next season in a team.

With Sat and Sun afternoons being somewhat quieter, you could organize a small kids league after the lessons were over.

Offer advanced lessons after the beginner ones to keep the interest flowing. Moms and Dads would have to bring the kids to the hall if they were playing in a kids league.

See, the problem with all of this is that people, as in my city have good ideas but when it comes time to implement them, no one wants to take the initiative.

I offered to teach basic lessons. They could have gotten advanced players to teach as well, with payment being an hour or two of table time. Wouldn't have cost them anything other than a few hours of table time.

Families, Moms, Dads would be bringing the kids back on other days as well to practice. They would have sold drinks and food in the process and table time too. Win, win for all. Trouble was, even tho it was offered for free, no one wanted to get up and open the pool hall early.

You give Dad the option of bringing his son to the hall for a few games of pool or taking him to an arcade, what percentage of Dads do you think would opt for the hall.

Advertising is expensive. Nope. Tons of ways to do free advertising.

Maybe thats one of the reasons that the hall closed its doors. No one cared enuff to try different things. Hey, one idea doesn't work, thats ok, you just move onto the next idea.

Hahaha. I just did a John post. He will be proud of me.

Hey, by "free table time" I didn't mean the owner should give new guys free time while others had to pay. I meant like having a few hours of free time for everyone like twice a week. "Free pool from 4 to 8 pm Friday and Saturday" would attract way more people than other afternoons. The owner would still earn a lot selling drinks.

Also, the free tournaments would have minimal rewards, like a free drink for first 3 places or something like that. Income from drinks would also be pretty high. Regular customers would probably want some cash rewards so they would have to play the paid tournaments.

Lessons could be a little hard to organize. In some places in the US maybe not so much, but I can't see it working well on the world scale. You don't have that many good players in, let's say, eastern Europe and most of Asia, who would be willing to teach for very low or no payments at all. But I like your approach, we definitely need more people ready for innovations :wink:

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Ah, thats what you meant by the free time. Makes sense and could be a good idea. Just use the days and times that you know are generally slow and work that to your advantage.

People will buy drinks and maybe food.

Like the hall that I mentioned that closed its doors. Didn't open until late afternoon on Sat and Sun.

Could have used a few hours from each day for free pool. For example, if the cut off time was 4pm, as when you would normally open, if people are having fun, they will over stay by an hour possibly and you would get them for at least one hour.

Same with 8pm on a Sat. If a couple of guys get going, chances are good that they will hang out for an extra hour or so.

As far as the free lessons go, I was more concerned about locally and North America. I see you're from Europe, where? You don't think you could find anyone that would do it without pay?

Locally, you can always find a few guys that will give a bit of their time if they are going to get an hour of free time.

Do what they do at our hall. We have punch cards. Give them a punch card. For every hour they teach, they get a punch on the card thats worth a half hour or an hour. Depends on how generous the owner is. Or, when they fill the card up, its good for 5 hours of marathon pool. That part would be the easy part, I think.

 

[book collector]

Ah, thats what you meant by the free time. Makes sense and could be a good idea. Just use the days and times that you know are generally slow and work that to your advantage.

People will buy drinks and maybe food.

Like the hall that I mentioned that closed its doors. Didn't open until late afternoon on Sat and Sun.

Could have used a few hours from each day for free pool. For example, if the cut off time was 4pm, as when you would normally open, if people are having fun, they will over stay by an hour possibly and you would get them for at least one hour.

Same with 8pm on a Sat. If a couple of guys get going, chances are good that they will hang out for an extra hour or so.

As far as the free lessons go, I was more concerned about locally and North America. I see you're from Europe, where? You don't think you could find anyone that would do it without pay?

Locally, you can always find a few guys that will give a bit of their time if they are going to get an hour of free time.

Do what they do at our hall. We have punch cards. Give them a punch card. For every hour they teach, they get a punch on the card thats worth a half hour or an hour. Depends on how generous the owner is. Or, when they fill the card up, its good for 5 hours of marathon pool. That part would be the easy part, I think.

Thats a great idea , I think a lot more people would become regulars if they were getting lessons for cheap.
Another thing I have noticed over the years is that as soon as they learn a little bit they want to start gambling, that is good for the pool economy in any room.

 

[336Robin]

Promoting the Sport

This thread hits on where my thoughts have been for some time. Pool is not so much something that if you build it they will come anymore. Its not on the normal conciousness of people.

I think thought given to bringing in new players, perhaps arranging lessons for them once you get them to bring them into the fold of pool is a great thing to do.

For myself it seems that there is no collective body to bring the conciousness of people on the sport in any kind of effective way so that responsibility falls on people who want to make their money selling pool time if they want to stay in business. Perhaps also companies who want to sell pool tables, cloth etc.

 

[Charlie Hustle]

Believe it or not, the free time does not help, and the "customers" do not buy any food or drink. Ive seen them come in over and over again. They only show up when the table time is free, and only order waters.

 

[Quesports]

I think they should have free beer too! They can make up any losses by charging to use the mens/ladies room!!!

 

[BeiberLvr]

Believe it or not, the free time does not help, and the "customers" do not buy any food or drink. Ive seen them come in over and over again. They only show up when the table time is free, and only order waters.

That's why you make table time free during certain hours WITH the purchase of food or an alcoholic beverage.

 

[zpele]

Everyone's complaining how pool is doing worse and worse. There are less players each year, pool halls keep closing, payouts for professionals are low and so on. There are ways to change the situation. Quite a few ways actually. Still, nobody tried anything radical enough to launch pool back in the mainstream. I have this suggestion... Why owners of pool halls and bar tables wouldn't organize regular free or very-low-fee tournaments for the crowd? The problem is, many people just don't feel like paying so they won't even give the game a shot. If they had the opportunity to play some casual tornaments with friends, see how better players play, feel the joy of winning, I bet some of them would become more serious with the game. I'm not saying owners should stop requiring fees for normal tournaments, but I think it wouldn't hurt so bad to organize them once a week or at least once in two weeks. Combine that with free table time here and there, and there's the potential for pool to rise once again.

Yet another classic idea from you...

Like I said last time you made a post like this.... stop making threads and start educating yourself. You may have a mind for making up creative solutions but until you have some learning in that mind of your all your ideas will be useless or not related to what is actually going on.

 

[elvicash]

Everyone's complaining how pool is doing worse and worse. There are less players each year, pool halls keep closing, payouts for professionals are low and so on. There are ways to change the situation. Quite a few ways actually. Still, nobody tried anything radical enough to launch pool back in the mainstream. I have this suggestion... Why owners of pool halls and bar tables wouldn't organize regular free or very-low-fee tournaments for the crowd? The problem is, many people just don't feel like paying so they won't even give the game a shot. If they had the opportunity to play some casual tornaments with friends, see how better players play, feel the joy of winning, I bet some of them would become more serious with the game. I'm not saying owners should stop requiring fees for normal tournaments, but I think it wouldn't hurt so bad to organize them once a week or at least once in two weeks. Combine that with free table time here and there, and there's the potential for pool to rise once again.

Sure lets give it away that will fill a tourney. How much should a room owner add to a free tournament. What will they end making off the event. Do you want to a sponsor a free tournament? I think pool needs more players with money and less people wanting a free ride.

Pool is competing aainst the internet, XBOX, golf and a more hectic lifestyle here in the US. Most people do not want to put in the work this game requires, it is more than just clicking a few keys on a controller.

 

[Push&Pool]

Ah, thats what you meant by the free time. Makes sense and could be a good idea. Just use the days and times that you know are generally slow and work that to your advantage.

People will buy drinks and maybe food.

Like the hall that I mentioned that closed its doors. Didn't open until late afternoon on Sat and Sun.

Could have used a few hours from each day for free pool. For example, if the cut off time was 4pm, as when you would normally open, if people are having fun, they will over stay by an hour possibly and you would get them for at least one hour.

Same with 8pm on a Sat. If a couple of guys get going, chances are good that they will hang out for an extra hour or so.

As far as the free lessons go, I was more concerned about locally and North America. I see you're from Europe, where? You don't think you could find anyone that would do it without pay?

Locally, you can always find a few guys that will give a bit of their time if they are going to get an hour of free time.

Do what they do at our hall. We have punch cards. Give them a punch card. For every hour they teach, they get a punch on the card thats worth a half hour or an hour. Depends on how generous the owner is. Or, when they fill the card up, its good for 5 hours of marathon pool. That part would be the easy part, I think.

Eastern Europe. I couldn't find good instructors in my area even if I wanted to pay them. However, some senior casual players would probably like the idea of teaching pool in exchange for free table time.

Yet another classic idea from you...

Like I said last time you made a post like this.... stop making threads and start educating yourself. You may have a mind for making up creative solutions but until you have some learning in that mind of your all your ideas will be useless or not related to what is actually going on.

I kept my word and didn't write about stuff like aiming, shooting etc. where I lack knowledge. But this topic only requires common sense, and I see I'm not the only one thinking that way.

 

[Push&Pool]

Sure lets give it away that will fill a tourney. How much should a room owner add to a free tournament. What will they end making off the event. Do you want to a sponsor a free tournament? I think pool needs more players with money and less people wanting a free ride.

Pool is competing aainst the internet, XBOX, golf and a more hectic lifestyle here in the US. Most people do not want to put in the work this game requires, it is more than just clicking a few keys on a controller.

And why internet, Xbox and other stuff thrive? Because they have a much higher number of regular players. If we increase the popularity of pool by bringing in many new players, it will eventually reach the mainstream. Once in the mainstream, it will be much easier to find sponsors and people with money in general. I mean, football would find no sponsors if it weren't that popular.

 

[Charlie Hustle]

That's why you make table time free during certain hours WITH the purchase of food or an alcoholic beverage.

Now this I agree with.

 

[zpele]

Eastern Europe. I couldn't find good instructors in my area even if I wanted to pay them. However, some senior casual players would probably like the idea of teaching pool in exchange for free table time.



I kept my word and didn't write about stuff like aiming, shooting etc. where I lack knowledge. But this topic only requires common sense, and I see I'm not the only one thinking that way.

And I thank you for that.


This topic has been covered multiple times. Free table time will not bring in extra customers. In general most pool players are cheap and will not buy drinks. They come in for the free table time and leave without paying a dime for anything.

Also consider that pool players who are new to pool would have a hard time hearing about this tournament. It would never attract serious players as there is no reward other than what is put up by the hall/bar owner and in all reality there is no incentive for a bar/hall owner to give things away for free when in most cases they are already struggling.

There have been several threads about free table time driving in customers and it doesn't work in general because pool players are cheap. They come for the free table time and leave without buying anything.

People will come for the tables without it being free so there is no reason to not charge for it.

I don't feel like finding the thread but there is one dealing specifically with this issue of free table time.

God im rambling this morning. Need more coffee.

 

[hang-the-9]

Everyone's complaining how pool is doing worse and worse. There are less players each year, pool halls keep closing, payouts for professionals are low and so on. There are ways to change the situation. Quite a few ways actually. Still, nobody tried anything radical enough to launch pool back in the mainstream. I have this suggestion... Why owners of pool halls and bar tables wouldn't organize regular free or very-low-fee tournaments for the crowd? The problem is, many people just don't feel like paying so they won't even give the game a shot. If they had the opportunity to play some casual tornaments with friends, see how better players play, feel the joy of winning, I bet some of them would become more serious with the game. I'm not saying owners should stop requiring fees for normal tournaments, but I think it wouldn't hurt so bad to organize them once a week or at least once in two weeks. Combine that with free table time here and there, and there's the potential for pool to rise once again.

Nothing new here. The weekly tournament I play in is only $7, and casual players have no interest in playing. I see many players that are OK (low C or C players) when we ask if they want to play in the tournament for $7 say no. That $7 includes table time till about 11 also if you get knocked out, so basically you have almost a night of pool for less than one hour of regular time. Yet people still do not want to play. Most people are just afraid they will look like idiots against players they don't know, and truthfully, many would against even a B player. There are a few posters here that play with me there, they can tell you that I'm not just blowing smoke, the owner of the room is great to the players, and I have seen him ask people many times if they wanted to play in the tournament, almost never happens. Those new players that do play, usually play ONCE, especially if they lose fast.

Most room owners do not organize the regular tournaments, they are put on by promoters that just reach an agreement with the room owner. I have also seen places where table time was VERY cheap ($8 to play all day and $12 to play all night) and they had to shut down due to no customers.

 

[mikepage]

That's why you make table time free during certain hours WITH the purchase of food or an alcoholic beverage.

I think this is the wrong approach.

We as individuals and as businesses are constantly sending unintended messages.

Leave a cell phone on during a meeting: you are not as important as the people calling me

glance around the room while someone is talking: I don't find you interesting.

A study in Harvard Business Review found that when a "no littering" sign is put up in an alley that is already littered, the proportion of people who litter INCREASES from 60% to 70%. Somehow the sign must be reinforcing the notion that everybody litters or that others are violating the rule or something like that.

When we charge money for food and charge money for alcohol and give away pool time, we are sending a message--the wrong message--of what is valuable. It's better for pool to charge for the pool and give them free food or drink.

It's not an accident that unfilled hotel rooms, unfilled seats on airplanes, unfilled seats at the concert, etc are not given away cheap at the last minute.

 

[hang-the-9]

-snip-
It's not an accident that unfilled hotel rooms, unfilled seats on airplanes, unfilled seats at the concert, etc are not given away cheap at the last minute.

Isn't that the whole point of several web sites that DO offer bargains like that?

 

[mikepage]

Isn't that the whole point of several web sites that DO offer bargains like that?

Yes I suppose. Some of the inventory is farmed out like that. But you won't show up at the Holiday Inn with 100 empty rooms at midnight and get one for $20.

Suppose you have a $10 all-day pool rate, and Sunday is a slow day. My point is there is a subtle difference in the messaging between the following two offers:

(1) Free pool all day if you buy $10 worth of food & beverage.

(2) $10 food & beverage tab if you choose the all-day pool rate.