Am I a D - Bag

The fact that you're on here questioning what you did shows some remorse on your part.
IMO though, you were right to enforce the rules because if this guy takes the game as seriously as it seems he does, he needs to learn to speak up or he will continue to be taken advantage of.

By the way, purposefully not letting your opponent know they're on 2 fouls and then calling it on the 3rd foul can be considered a d-bag move too.


You're not a d-bag. Rules are rules. In our league (which is NOT the BCA, but we follow 99%ish of the BCA rules), we always make it clear about the 3-foul rule before any big tourneys or if there are new players in the room, etc. etc. Everyone there knows that everyone else knows that you have to call it when your turn is over and the opponent approaches the table. The opponent must also acknowledge that you've warned him. I've never even seen an argument over this rule (yet) and I've seen plenty of players try to 3-foul each other. Now, I do know guys that say, "I never tell anyone they're on 3 fouls, because I don't want to win that way." That's fine. If they don't call it, that's on them. If they play me, I give them the proper warning and make sure they acknowledge me.

As for the frozen ball thing, I actually had a situation come up just a week or so ago. It was my turn at the table and I looked at the ball. It wasn't frozen. I turned to my opponent who is a BCA Instructor and told him, "It's not frozen." He just smiled and nodded. When our match was over, he pulled me aside and said that according to BCA rules, what I did was illegal. That it was HIS responsibility, as the non-shooter and player exiting the table, to inform me (the shooter) that the ball wasn't frozen, if it was an extremely close call. AND that by me talking to him during my turn, that it would be considered a foul in BCA as it was "sharking".

Can someone confirm the above?

I know that when I finish my shot, if there's ever a doubt, I always check to see if a ball is frozen or not and declare it before I leave the table. I had just never thought about declaring it AS THE SHOOTER, while I was deciding my options. Lesson learned. Thankfully it was taught to me, when it's not stated in our league's rulebook, so I didn't have to learn the hard way.

So, it seems to me that if the above is correct, all players have a responsibility to know the rules and to apply them at the proper times.

If you decide to let one rule slide, well, I suppose it's ok to let another slide, right? And then another? Maybe just one more? "Oh, you kicked behind a ball and make proper contact, but then nothing hit a rail? Nah, it's cool. I'll just play it as is." Forget that. Soon anarchy ensues.

Everything, whether it be pool or life in general, involves a slippery slope. So, rules are in place to nip things in the bud.

You didn't do anything wrong. If he's not aware of the rules, well, as they say, there's no excuse for ignorance. If he's aware of the rules and chose not to follow them, then he actually broke the rules. That doesn't make YOU the d-bag. If anything, he just sharked you.

I mean, how do you know what he DOESN'T know? That's not your responsibility. It's his.

Sack up people. You say he should exhibit "sportsmanship" and avoid the rules. I say he should play by the rules that are set before him.

And for what it's worth, I've never knowingly had anyone badmouth me about my game (tho, I'm sure somewhere someone has). If anything, everyone has told me to my face (and I've overheard whispers attesting to the fact) that I'm a guy that takes the game seriously and plays it to the letter. It's also usually accompanied by, "He's a grinder and he's either going to beat you down or make you earn it." I feel I'm respected by other players when I hear that.

Now, if I'm goofing off practicing with my buddy in the basement, sometimes we're lenient on things, simply because we might be practicing certain situations and less concerned about the "result of the game". But, if it's a tournament with rules or an action match.....with rules.....ya stick to them.

And one last thing to the haters. There is no room for your conscience in pool. :)
 
so is it ok that I technically manipulated the rules knowing what I was doing the whole time
???

Yes ...because you are in the d-bag club, otherwise you know better.

Did you shoot the frozen ball to hit a rail with the CB or another ball or just tap it, knowing it was frozen??? If you did that it was truly intentional and crosses the line.
 
Are you in the Club CP?

Pick a name or one will be picked for you. If you don't you will now
be forever known as Porn Bag.

Myself, I was hoping to be Blue Balls but had to use the word Bag in it. Close enuff.
 
Are you in the Club CP?

Pick a name or one will be picked for you. If you don't you will now
be forever known as Porn Bag.

Myself, I was hoping to be Blue Balls but had to use the word Bag in it. Close enuff.

Can I join the club????

If so

My name is 2ball bag :grin:
 
Last edited:
so is it ok that I technically manipulated the rules knowing what I was doing the whole time
???

what would be the difference then if you double hit the cue ball making a shot and your opponent wasn't looking.

If he's not looking is it still a foul ?

TECHNICALLY yes you played by the rules, but kinda shady to me.
 
Read thru every post and fathom blue NAILED it as did many others. These replies are most insightful into character and the nuances?? in our perception/judgement that shape our beliefs. When me and the boys are in the Man Cave we bust each other all the time because everyone of us is in it to improve our skills for when the important stuff happens(league nite). Competitive pool on any level is only as good as it's rule structure and implementation. The written rules seem static but when understood properly, the intent/spirit of those rules become very clear.
Character is another beast entirely and all I can say is ... if we were all the same this thread would be boring as h+++.
 
Are you in the Club CP?

Pick a name or one will be picked for you. If you don't you will now
be forever known as Porn Bag.

Myself, I was hoping to be Blue Balls but had to use the word Bag in it. Close enuff.

Or he could be C-Bag or P-Bag. :D

Can I join the club????

If so

My name is 2ball bag :grin:

Not going for 8 Bag?

Not really a bag but would like to reserve bread bag...

Taking something that you don't even plan on using.. that pretty baggy right there. You're in, whether you like it or not.

Since I stated I'm a discounted member, I must be:

Half in the Bag

Freddie <~~~ Striving to be Full

Half cue author, half in the bag. Sounds good!
 
And we need representation from the South of the USA. Freddie, you are on the Southern Guard.
Half in the Bag Freddie.

8 Pack, anyone can be a member. There are no special qualifications.

Just be the D Bag that you always wanted to be but were afraid.

D Bags Unite.
 
Last edited:
All those silly "opponent must call it frozen/inform you you're on 2" rules are designed to prevent he-said/she-said arguments. They make the ref's job easier when one player is not honest enough to just admit they fouled.

Guess I'm biased but I think rules should be designed with the gameplay in mind, not the convenience of the ref.

It's not in the spirit of the game thinking you're ok to foul as long as the other guy failed to catch it or warn you in advance. You say you don't feel bad but you must have some small feeling of embarrassment I'd you had to ask.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android
 
Technically you're right, but you must realize you're also a D-bag.

And since you're making the post, you get 25% of the D-bag title.

There is a video of Earl clearly fouling but then saying "he didn't call it," or something like that. Someone please find it. It's an example of him being technically correct, but the implication to his character are devastating.

Freddie <~~~ discounted member of the Douchebag Club of Massachusetts

Freddy,
I think I remember that one with Earl. He was playing Charlie Williams. They had a ref and it was his job to call all fouls. Earl clearly fouled but the ref didn't see (or call) it. Charlie asked Earl if he fouled and Earl said "he didn't call it". Charlie ended up winning anyway.
 
All those silly "opponent must call it frozen/inform you you're on 2" rules are designed to prevent he-said/she-said arguments. They make the ref's job easier when one player is not honest enough to just admit they fouled.

Guess I'm biased but I think rules should be designed with the gameplay in mind, not the convenience of the ref.

It's not in the spirit of the game thinking you're ok to foul as long as the other guy failed to catch it or warn you in advance. You say you don't feel bad but you must have some small feeling of embarrassment I'd you had to ask.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android

I consider it equally silly that somebody can bump around the 1-ball, not have to make anything, but still win a game. If all they really have to do is say "You're on 2.", that shouldn't be too much to ask. Similarly, if they want to question a railed ball, all they have to do is look at it and say "It's frozen". The rules say you're suppose to say it. In a game where you don't even have to call a ball or a pocket, it's not much to say. I understand your point, but, hell, really, if the guy's got 3 BiH in a row, he shouldn't be losing anyways.

FTR, at our regional, I had a ref tell me he wouldn't watch a player for the shot clock, who was at the table, when the guy took 2 minutes for the first shot after the break and then a minute each on his next two shots that were pretty obvious to anybody with two eyes. My response was to take my sweet time at the table before my first shot, including drinking half my beer.
 
To answer the OP... I almost always call fouls on myself, which includes the ball being frozen even if it's not "called". If I know a guy is trying to 3-foul me, I don't care if he calls it. I accept defeat.

HOWEVER!!!!, If I am playing a jerk-off, all the "technicalities" come into play. I know the rules very well, and will exploit them against any A-hole I am playing. I am fortunate that most of the time I am playing against a nice enough guy, so I go by what I believe are the "gentleman's rules".
 
Easy Bag, yer in. See how this works?

We are coming out of the closet.

No longer do you have to feel guilty for not helping people with their game while paying valuable table time.

The next person that walks up to your table and asks you a question, you can look them square in the eyes and say, "What do I look like to you, an instructor, go buy a DVD, I had to".

Who do these people think they are, to intrude on our practice time. See how much better that made you feel already.
Like what, I'm supposed to help every banger in the world get better than me so they can beat me next league night.
Forget that right now Buddy.
 
Last edited:
I consider it equally silly that somebody can bump around the 1-ball, not have to make anything, but still win a game. If all they really have to do is say "You're on 2.", that shouldn't be too much to ask. Similarly, if they want to question a railed ball, all they have to do is look at it and say "It's frozen". The rules say you're suppose to say it. In a game where you don't even have to call a ball or a pocket, it's not much to say. I understand your point, but, hell, really, if the guy's got 3 BiH in a row, he shouldn't be losing anyways.

FTR, at our regional, I had a ref tell me he wouldn't watch a player for the shot clock, who was at the table, when the guy took 2 minutes for the first shot after the break and then a minute each on his next two shots that were pretty obvious to anybody with two eyes. My response was to take my sweet time at the table before my first shot, including drinking half my beer.

There's 3 seconds...
 
Easy Bag, yer in. See how this works?

We are coming out of the closet.

No longer do you have to feel guilty for not helping people with their game while paying valuable table time.

The next person that walks up to your table and asks you a question, you can look them square in the eyes and say, "What do I look like to you, an instructor, go buy a DVD, I had to".

Who do these people think they are, to intrude on our practice time. See how much better that made you feel already.

Buncha goddamn jerkoffs, that's who!
 
Back
Top