"C" Player uses "Feel" to beat the ghost 9-1

Hi John,

I have a question. I have only breifly tried CTE & became intrigued. I stopped When CJ introduced TOI & then experimented with TOI & have found it to be very benficial. I am waiting for Stan's new DVD to come out. I read your post above regarding the subconscious.

So, here is my hypothetical question. If I were to go back to trying CTE & went through the alignment above the shot & dtermined form the CTE line above the shot that I would need to add more cut than the CTE & came down on the shot with a the cue say 1/2 to 1 tip parallel inside the shot & then did a pivot to the out side but was then not comfortable & ahd no faith that that would make the shot. What would you say is 'telling me that? My conscious mind or my subconscuos mind. And...if I made some sligh adjustment that made me comfortable enough to shoot the shot with some 'faith' that I would make it, where did that correction come form? did it come from my conscious mind or my subconscious mind?

I am just trying to unerstand what if any difference there is in what you 'feel' is the subconscious.

Your story about a baby learning in the womb is interesting but I am not sure that I would say that it is conscious learning. We can learn certain things even when we sleep. We can learn certain things even from dreams that we have.

In pool, I would trust my subconscious mind over my brain evrery time. ( opening for personal slurs by others than you)

I think PJ was disengenuious on many occassions & only argued for arguements 'sake'.

I am very interested in Pro1 as I see it as possibly being a conscious method that would take doubt out of the equation which would require less input from the subconscious. I am hoping that it would them in agreement vs. disagreement much more often.

I hope some of this makes some sense. The subconscious mind is a very amzing 'entity' in my opinion.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Best Wishes & May God Bless Your Entire Family,
Rick

PS When will we see a new family portrait. I'm scheduled to become a Grand Father in October.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi John,

I have a question. I have only breifly tried CTE & became intrigued. I stopped When CJ introduced TOI & then experimented with TOI & have found it to be very benficial. I am waiting for Stan's new DVD to come out. I read your post above regarding the subconscious.

So, here is my hypothetical question. If I were to go back to trying CTE & went through the alignment above the shot & dtermined form the CTE line above the shot that I would need to add more cut than the CTE & came down on the shot with a the cue say 1/2 to 1 tip parallel inside the shot & then did a pivot to the out side but was then not comfortable & ahd no faith that that would make the shot. What would you say is 'telling me that? My conscious mind or my subconscuos mind. And...if I made some sligh adjustment that made me comfortable enough to shoot the shot with some 'faith' that I would make it, where did that correction come form? did it come from my conscious mind or my subconscious mind?

I am just trying to unerstand what if any difference there is in what you 'feel' is the subconscious.

Your story about a baby learning in the womb is interesting but I am not sure that I would say that it is conscious learning. We can learn certain things even when we sleep. We can learn certain things even from dreams that we have.

In pool, I would trust my subconscious mind over my brain evrery time. ( opening for personal slurs by others than you)

I think PJ was disengenuious on many occassions & only argued for arguements 'sake'.

I am very interested in Pro1 as I see it as possibly being a conscious method that would take doubt out of the equation which would require less input from the subconscious. I am hoping that it would them in agreement vs. disagreement much more often.

I hope some of this makes some sense. The subconscious mind is a very amzing 'entity' in my opinion.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Best Wishes & May God Bless Your Entire Family,
Rick

PS When will we see a new family portrait. I'm scheduled to become a Grand Father in October.
Click to expand...

If you have no faith in the line you are on then it is your conscious mind telling you that. The point of the subconscious is to allow you to do things automatically. When you question then it's your consciousness that is doing it.
 
JB Cases said:
If you have no faith in the line you are on then it is your conscious mind telling you that. The point of the subconscious is to allow you to do things automatically. When you question then it's your consciousness that is doing it.
Click to expand...

Opinion, not fact.
 
JB Cases said:
I think that the subconscious is trained by the conscious. Just today I heard a show detailing new research that proves that fetuses learn in the womb. They come out not as blank slates but instead as fully formed humans who already have preferences based on what they learned during pregnancy.
Click to expand...

John, we met at SBE (I was the guy that watched your booth for a few minutes when beer got spilled at your booth). I've been meaning to say it was a pleasure meeting you, and that I wish you weren't so busy so we could have chatted a bit in person about this aiming system stuff. Maybe next year?

Anyway...

I'd love to read the actual research behind those assertions regarding pre-natal learning. Do you have a link to the primary literature?

I know that many researchers think that rudimentary language acquisition may begin in utero, but I find it hard to believe that research was done that "proves" that humans emerge from the womb fully formed by their experiences in there.

JMHO but it sounds like the old "nature vs. nurture" argument in a difference guise. Some folks will never accept the role that genetics plays in our personalities.
 
JB Cases said:
If you have no faith in the line you are on then it is your conscious mind telling you that. The point of the subconscious is to allow you to do things automatically. When you question then it's your consciousness that is doing it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

But this is where there can be some differing 'opinions' or perhaps some misunderstandings perhaps due to miscommunication.

The question is where does conscious thought fade out of the picture & the subconscious assert itself. If one's brain believes something that is false the subconsciuos can try to convince the conscious brain that it is wrong. The brain is telling the body to do it this way, but the 'mind' knows that it's wrong & is trying to tell the body to do it another way. That is how we pick up subconscious compensations for faulty mechanics, etc.

Anyway, that is just my take on some aspects of it.

I guess it comes down to how one defines 'mind', subconscience, conscious, etc.

I would like them both to be as close to in harmony as is possible.

Thanks again,
 
ENGLISH! said:
Thanks for the reply.

But this is where there can be some differing 'opinions' or perhaps some misunderstandings perhaps due to miscommunication.

The question is where does conscious thought fade out of the picture & the subconscious assert itself. If one's brain believes something that is false the subconsciuos can try to convince the conscious brain that it is wrong. The brain is telling the body to do it this way, but the 'mind' knows that it's wrong & is trying to tell the body to do it another way. That is how we pick up subconscious compensations for faulty mechanics, etc.

Anyway, that is just my take on some aspects of it.

I guess it comes down to how one defines 'mind', subconscience, conscious, etc.

I would like them both to be as close to in harmony as is possible.

Thanks again,
Click to expand...

I don't think any of us can say for sure what is conscious and subconscious. Is being in the zone subconscious? Most would say yes.

Without a brain scan while you play there is no real way to know what parts of your brain are lighting up as you aim, get down, and shoot.

I contend that if you "think" about it and you know you are thinking about it to the point that you could remember and describe your thoughts then it's your conscious mind at work at that point.

I think that the whole point of any method is to do enough reps where it becomes automatic. That goes for the physical and mental aspects. Brain scans of people who know how to meditate show that they have the same areas of the brain lit up as people on drugs who are more open and aware and focused when on the drugs. So it stands to reason that when you enter a fugue state where you are operating on autopilot at peak efficiency then your brain is lit up in the areas that govern the subconscious with your neurons firing away keeping you focused and on task, accessing everything you know and allowing you to execute that.

Where I get funny on this is when people make the subconscious responsible for the makes but not the misses. As if the subconscious is able to make leaps instantly to fill in knowledge gaps on the fly. I do think that the brain is able to do that but not necessarily in the way some people mean it here.

At the end of the day though it's all just fodder for discussion. The only thing that matters to each of us individually is whether we improve and maintain that improvement or not. How we got there is interesting only to the point that it gives others a success story to use when choosing which path they will take.

Because just like with all learning there is no one size fits all approach that works. So people have the choice between pure feel trial and error all the way to highly regimented measurement methods. None of us can say for sure what part the subconscious plays in any of those methods, we can only describe what we remember and that is the conscious part. In my opinion of course.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
John, we met at SBE (I was the guy that watched your booth for a few minutes when beer got spilled at your booth). I've been meaning to say it was a pleasure meeting you, and that I wish you weren't so busy so we could have chatted a bit in person about this aiming system stuff. Maybe next year?

Anyway...

I'd love to read the actual research behind those assertions regarding pre-natal learning. Do you have a link to the primary literature?

I know that many researchers think that rudimentary language acquisition may begin in utero, but I find it hard to believe that research was done that "proves" that humans emerge from the womb fully formed by their experiences in there.

JMHO but it sounds like the old "nature vs. nurture" argument in a difference guise. Some folks will never accept the role that genetics plays in our personalities.
Click to expand...

What I meant by fully formed is that they don't emerge as a blank slate. They already have taste preferences, they already have sound preferences. Of course they aren't fully formed psychologically. But increasingly researchers are finding out that prenatal experiences and genetics both have markers that are astonishingly (and unfortunately) accurate predictors of success in later life all other stuff being equal.

Start here to listen to the TED talk about this subject.

http://www.ted.com/talks/annie_murphy_paul_what_we_learn_before_we_re_born.html
 
ps611846 said:
I always thought that i should stand and shoot with my head to the left side of the cue. That was causing a really bad stroke. And yes, i was making many shots (and also missing badly) but i had the feeling that something was wrong and my stroke was bad. Now, i bring my head to the right and this leads my body to find a stance that will produce a good stroke. My stance now looks like Landon's stance. It is the only way for me to see the visuals correctly and make my body follow. So, while i had the feeling that i should play with my right eye over the cue, i end up using a completely different setup. I can't tell if i am right or left eye dominant. I can just say that i have to keep my head to the right (i am right handed) in order to see the visuals and keep my stroke straight.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat right now. I used to align myself automatically and missing zone position or a shot by more than a rattle was very uncommon. I took some time off and came back and now everything is misaligned.

I learned almost everything I know from years of watching accustats matches and a few short one pocket and straight pool lessons from Grady Mathews. I will be spending more time on the tables and focusing on just having fun until my arm "feels" right again.
 
The mind is an incredible thing, however, like anything else, it must be trained.....

JB Cases said:
If you have no faith in the line you are on then it is your conscious mind telling you that. The point of the subconscious is to allow you to do things automatically. When you question then it's your consciousness that is doing it.
Click to expand...

When someone loses their eyesight, the senses of hearing and feel seem to be amplified. When playing pool we can use this human tenancy to create a situation where we have amplified vision, then amplified feel, however there must be a "modality shift" to accomplish this. Then, after conscious practice it will become subconscious, although there's a process to accomplish this systematically. For some this happens naturally, for others they simply need to be taught. We all differ in what comes "naturally," and what we need to learn from an experienced teacher.

I believe this is a big factor between playing pool at an intermediate/advanced level and reaching championship speed/level. This ability is in all of us, some of us "real eyes" it and some intentionally put it off. The mind is an incredible thing, however, like anything else, it must be trained and educated to be more effective. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
JB Cases said:
I don't think any of us can say for sure what is conscious and subconscious. Is being in the zone subconscious? Most would say yes.

Without a brain scan while you play there is no real way to know what parts of your brain are lighting up as you aim, get down, and shoot.

I contend that if you "think" about it and you know you are thinking about it to the point that you could remember and describe your thoughts then it's your conscious mind at work at that point.

I think that the whole point of any method is to do enough reps where it becomes automatic. That goes for the physical and mental aspects. Brain scans of people who know how to meditate show that they have the same areas of the brain lit up as people on drugs who are more open and aware and focused when on the drugs. So it stands to reason that when you enter a fugue state where you are operating on autopilot at peak efficiency then your brain is lit up in the areas that govern the subconscious with your neurons firing away keeping you focused and on task, accessing everything you know and allowing you to execute that.

Where I get funny on this is when people make the subconscious responsible for the makes but not the misses. As if the subconscious is able to make leaps instantly to fill in knowledge gaps on the fly. I do think that the brain is able to do that but not necessarily in the way some people mean it here.

At the end of the day though it's all just fodder for discussion. The only thing that matters to each of us individually is whether we improve and maintain that improvement or not. How we got there is interesting only to the point that it gives others a success story to use when choosing which path they will take.

Because just like with all learning there is no one size fits all approach that works. So people have the choice between pure feel trial and error all the way to highly regimented measurement methods. None of us can say for sure what part the subconscious plays in any of those methods, we can only describe what we remember and that is the conscious part. In my opinion of course.
Click to expand...

Thanks John.

I agree it is mostly just fodder for discussion.

I think any system that works is good info for our brain & mind to utilize. The more references we have the better the data base.

Thanks again.
 
wrldpro said:
It becomes aiming sideways into slanted holes.Ancient Chinese secret
Click to expand...

I suppose you would know considering that you told me you have used $3 Chinese prostitutes. If a WorldPro with your immense travel experience doesn't know how to aim in the blind then no one does.
 
JB Cases said:
I suppose you would know considering that you told me you have used $3 Chinese prostitutes. If a WorldPro with your immense travel experience doesn't know how to aim in the blind then no one does.
Click to expand...

There's such thing as $3 Chinese prostitutes? Shit, for $15 I can feel like King Abdullah with his harem. If I gave them a $20, would I be tipping too much?
 
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