That kind of response right there would make me more pissed.
But Hey, you are giving him his money back and his rails when you get around to get it, so I guess you did the right thing here
Rip-off Report on Glen, The Real King Cobra
- Thread starter Highroller54
- Start date
- Status
But Hey, you are giving him his money back and his rails when you get around to get it, so I guess you did the right thing here
Everybody wants to tell RKC, Barry, Searing, etc, how to be better business people.
The answer is simple, they should raise their prices so much of their demand would fall away (seeing they are unwilling to compromise quality in order to increase supply) and then the supply/demand balance would be even.
None of them are willing to do it, so there you go, Barry has a life-time waiting list, Searing 10 years and RKC runs months and months behind. That's the way it goes.
Here RCG tries to do a favor for a guy and instead of parking his truck at the guys house and do the full on $1500 job, charges him a cut-rate and takes his rails to do them as he can. Serves him right for trying to do the guy a favor. Now he's got guys that would never have done business with him in the first place elling him how to operate.
There are plenty of guys that can come right over and work on your table. if you want their work, call them. If you want the best table set-up (or cue) be prepared to wait some.
Kevin
The answer is simple, they should raise their prices so much of their demand would fall away (seeing they are unwilling to compromise quality in order to increase supply) and then the supply/demand balance would be even.
None of them are willing to do it, so there you go, Barry has a life-time waiting list, Searing 10 years and RKC runs months and months behind. That's the way it goes.
Here RCG tries to do a favor for a guy and instead of parking his truck at the guys house and do the full on $1500 job, charges him a cut-rate and takes his rails to do them as he can. Serves him right for trying to do the guy a favor. Now he's got guys that would never have done business with him in the first place elling him how to operate.
There are plenty of guys that can come right over and work on your table. if you want their work, call them. If you want the best table set-up (or cue) be prepared to wait some.
Kevin
I, like everyone else but the OP, have no horse in this race but I can see where Glen is coming from. If I read that kind of post about me, even if I was completely in the wrong, I'd do the same thing; end the deal, return the goods and the money.
Whenever we see a post about a cuemaker not completing a deal, it's always an option from the people that reply that the customer get whatever products back and their money to resolve the issue. Why is it different for Glen?
It's a crappy situation, Glen missed this one and it will probably change a few people's minds on using his services. But he didn't fight or dodge the post, he's offering the rails and money back, likely including reinstalling them free of charge too. He's done enough.
.
I try to stay out of threads like this, so Ill just make a couple quick comments.
From what I read, the 250 was for doing the rails instead of the 1500 for doing the WHOLE job. Which would include setting up the table, doing the cloth, and everything that comes with it. At least thats the way I read his reply. I would bet 250 for doing the rails is good deal, but also closer to the going rate than some of you may be thinking.
Glen also said he has more work than he can ever get to. That would be a concern if I were a customer, why would you take on more work than you know you can do?
Glen is going to refund and return the rails, which at this point is all the OP was asking for. But I think it would be a step in the right direction if Glen would ask the OP if he would like for Glen to have someone else do the rails. Lets face it, Glen knows more good mechanics than anyone. And Im sure one of them would be happy to take on the work, get it done, and try to turn a bad situation into something a little better. I know a mechanic that is not all that far from Diamond that does tremendous work. Glen knows the same mechanic.
Just a suggestion.
Woody
From what I read, the 250 was for doing the rails instead of the 1500 for doing the WHOLE job. Which would include setting up the table, doing the cloth, and everything that comes with it. At least thats the way I read his reply. I would bet 250 for doing the rails is good deal, but also closer to the going rate than some of you may be thinking.
Glen also said he has more work than he can ever get to. That would be a concern if I were a customer, why would you take on more work than you know you can do?
Glen is going to refund and return the rails, which at this point is all the OP was asking for. But I think it would be a step in the right direction if Glen would ask the OP if he would like for Glen to have someone else do the rails. Lets face it, Glen knows more good mechanics than anyone. And Im sure one of them would be happy to take on the work, get it done, and try to turn a bad situation into something a little better. I know a mechanic that is not all that far from Diamond that does tremendous work. Glen knows the same mechanic.
Just a suggestion.
Woody
Kobachi
Scarred but Smarter
Yep.........
Bad Business Practice
Kevin..
Maybe he needs someone to manage his time for him and update the customers.
It seems obvious he is unable to do it himself.
Don
Kevin..
Maybe he needs someone to manage his time for him and update the customers.
It seems obvious he is unable to do it himself.
Don
Yup. My buddy owns a bike shop. We were hanging one night and he told me he shouldn't be wasting time talking to me, had way too much repair work to do.
I told him he needed to raise his prices and he did. not to take credit for basic input into his business, but he did tell me that he make more in repair $ now that he did 2yr ago and has fewer bikes pass through.
I find it somewhat odd that the OP knew enough about Glen to choose him for the job, but not enough to know that Glen is on 'Glen time'.
Don
Sure. An appointment secretary would be nice. Maybe a driver too, so he could work in the back of his truck between jobs. He'd probably be more efficient if he flew between jobs, although with his equipment, he'd need his own plane. So a pilot too.
Kevin
OP definitely owes nobody an apology.
Probably when Glen promised that timeframe, some little voice in his head told him
"you might no be able to pull that off". He should have listened to that voice.
He's been doing this long enough that he knows what his workload is like and what delays to expect.
Opening conversation should have gone like this: "actually, I can't promise a specific time.
I'm really backed up. It might be like 2, 3, even 4 months before I'm able to get back here.
I know that's a long wait. Still want to go through with it? I'll understand if you don't."
Then the OP knows exactly what to expect and would have no right to complain when
2, 3, even 4 months pass by.
All this talk about the sistine chapel and it's totally worth the wait... there has to be more than 1 guy
in america who does tables correctly. And some of them treat their customers correctly by not
looking at their cell phone screen and clicking the Reject button.
Probably when Glen promised that timeframe, some little voice in his head told him
"you might no be able to pull that off". He should have listened to that voice.
He's been doing this long enough that he knows what his workload is like and what delays to expect.
Opening conversation should have gone like this: "actually, I can't promise a specific time.
I'm really backed up. It might be like 2, 3, even 4 months before I'm able to get back here.
I know that's a long wait. Still want to go through with it? I'll understand if you don't."
Then the OP knows exactly what to expect and would have no right to complain when
2, 3, even 4 months pass by.
All this talk about the sistine chapel and it's totally worth the wait... there has to be more than 1 guy
in america who does tables correctly. And some of them treat their customers correctly by not
looking at their cell phone screen and clicking the Reject button.
JC
Coos Cues
Donny is the real deal that's for sure.
My poppy always said if a man's word is no good then there's not much else about him to recommend. Artist Shmartist. Get a grip excuse makers!
JC
I didn't find Kevin's comments to indicate support for either side, merely pointing out that artists do not operate on the schedules of others and that the premier practicioners will always have customers.
God I hear you.
I asked Searing why he just didn't double his prices and his reply was that he would feel bad charging people what his dealer customers do. So he's a great craftsman and a nice guy. The nice part is what gets them, they can only work at their speed, whatever that is. Its the nice guy thing that gets them into trouble trying to please the people that create their demand.
Its like, you want the newish 9 speed Shimano shifters (because you can't find the old ones) fitted to your old 7 speed hubs. You can go to plenty of bike shops where there is zero wait and the mechanic will tell you, nope can't do it let me get you a price for swapping out the hubs. When you find the guy that can do it, he's got a line out the door, so you wait.
The Sistine chapel pope went nuts with the wait Michelangelo put him through, but now, millions of people crane their necks to see it.
You want in now or you want it flawless? The two very seldom are one in the same. So you gotta make a choice.
Last edited:
There is...
IMO Like most business transactions that involve a service, it's all about managing expectations. If you know its gonna be 6 months but say it'll be 2, you're asking for trouble. If you you know it'll be 6 months and tell them 8, you'll look like a hero for delivering early.
Whether it's cues or pool tables, the simple fact is that understandably, no one wants to pass up the money. So promises are made that cannot possibly be kept. This is not the first time we've seen a thread like this, nor will it be the last as long as people aren't realistic about the ability to deliver
Whether it's cues or pool tables, the simple fact is that understandably, no one wants to pass up the money. So promises are made that cannot possibly be kept. This is not the first time we've seen a thread like this, nor will it be the last as long as people aren't realistic about the ability to deliver
How many, would you guess, that have skills that approximate Glen's?
I will always remember watching a star trek episode and Scotty saying something to the younger engineer geordi along the lines of "You always overestimate a job!!! If you believe it's going to take you 3hrs to fix the warp drive you tell the captain it's going to take 8hrs, that way if you're done in 3 he thinks your a miracle worker and if shit happens and it takes 8hrs then you still end up looking good"
That scene just made sense to me and i like looking like a miracle worker ever since...lol.
That scene just made sense to me and i like looking like a miracle worker ever since...lol.
bankoutallday
Banned
-------------
No soup for you...one year!
No soup for you...one year!
Offensive rant
Is it just me or is the word "artist" beeing ridiculously overused in todays society. I mean sure there are professions where the definitions of artist and craftsman overlap. Gun engraving for instance. But really what is wrong with being a craftsman, or even a master craftsman?
To me a craftsman is someone who does great work and delivers on time and takes pride in that fact. Being a craftsman and especially a master craftsman used to be a badge of honor, that people aspired to live up to, but now standards have slipped. We are so suprised when someone delivers on time and if the result excedes our expectatitons the word artist or genious is being used. This is not a put down of peoples skill. A great gun engraver, cuemaker or carpenter is certainly worthy of our respect, but get real. There is some difference between a pool table rail and the Sistine Chapel Ceiling, I think you will agree.
It won't be long before someone gets called the "Michelangelo of plumbers". "Yeah, I waited 8 years for my bathroom to be fixed and had to use an outhouse in the meantime, but it was totally worth it! Now When i flush my toilet it is like hearing the angels sing." (I looked up Michelangelo plumbing, trying to find a picure but there are so many of them:grin-square
.
Do you mean to tell me that making a pool table play well is so difficult that people in that buisness should be granted special privilege over furniture makers and others who do similar kinds of work, or even more intricate wood carving and metal carving? We wouldn't put up with nonsense from these people, at least I wouldn't.
This "temperamental artist" bit is getting old, really old, and is being used more and more on this forum to cover up all kinds of problematic behaviour. Standards are slipping and slipping fast. You may now bash me at will.
Is it just me or is the word "artist" beeing ridiculously overused in todays society. I mean sure there are professions where the definitions of artist and craftsman overlap. Gun engraving for instance. But really what is wrong with being a craftsman, or even a master craftsman?
To me a craftsman is someone who does great work and delivers on time and takes pride in that fact. Being a craftsman and especially a master craftsman used to be a badge of honor, that people aspired to live up to, but now standards have slipped. We are so suprised when someone delivers on time and if the result excedes our expectatitons the word artist or genious is being used. This is not a put down of peoples skill. A great gun engraver, cuemaker or carpenter is certainly worthy of our respect, but get real. There is some difference between a pool table rail and the Sistine Chapel Ceiling, I think you will agree.
It won't be long before someone gets called the "Michelangelo of plumbers". "Yeah, I waited 8 years for my bathroom to be fixed and had to use an outhouse in the meantime, but it was totally worth it! Now When i flush my toilet it is like hearing the angels sing." (I looked up Michelangelo plumbing, trying to find a picure but there are so many of them:grin-square
.Do you mean to tell me that making a pool table play well is so difficult that people in that buisness should be granted special privilege over furniture makers and others who do similar kinds of work, or even more intricate wood carving and metal carving? We wouldn't put up with nonsense from these people, at least I wouldn't.
This "temperamental artist" bit is getting old, really old, and is being used more and more on this forum to cover up all kinds of problematic behaviour. Standards are slipping and slipping fast. You may now bash me at will.
I suggested this to Glen....
After Glen spent seven days at my house recalibrating the rails, handling the sub-rail extensions, installing cloth via the glue-down method he only charged me what Mark Gregory charges for just doing subrail extensions. I calculated that he was working at less than $10 an hour! Which doesn't even cover the cost of travel to Dallas.
I asked him why he doesn't double his prices since his attention to detail is incredible and he said he would feel bad pricing people out of a great table. He knows people would pay more, but he also knows the working joe would miss out.
Glen is who he is, and he's happy with his way of life. You've got to know what you're getting yourself into when you sign up with him. Once he gets to you, then you are his only priority, but it takes some time for him to figure out what Diamond deals will send him to your part of the country. In this case, even his rail work is dependent upon his work schedule with Diamond. Glen is able to offer such affordable prices because he prioritizes his job with Diamond first, as he should. We all benefit from the side-work when he can fit us in, and are able to take advantage of some amazing prices and skilled artistry.
Those of us who have been fortunate enough to have Glen work on our table appreciate him more than he knows, and wait years for his return. I hope the OP and Glen get this worked out soon. It's in neither one's interest to have this thread out there.
After Glen spent seven days at my house recalibrating the rails, handling the sub-rail extensions, installing cloth via the glue-down method he only charged me what Mark Gregory charges for just doing subrail extensions. I calculated that he was working at less than $10 an hour! Which doesn't even cover the cost of travel to Dallas.
I asked him why he doesn't double his prices since his attention to detail is incredible and he said he would feel bad pricing people out of a great table. He knows people would pay more, but he also knows the working joe would miss out.
Glen is who he is, and he's happy with his way of life. You've got to know what you're getting yourself into when you sign up with him. Once he gets to you, then you are his only priority, but it takes some time for him to figure out what Diamond deals will send him to your part of the country. In this case, even his rail work is dependent upon his work schedule with Diamond. Glen is able to offer such affordable prices because he prioritizes his job with Diamond first, as he should. We all benefit from the side-work when he can fit us in, and are able to take advantage of some amazing prices and skilled artistry.
Those of us who have been fortunate enough to have Glen work on our table appreciate him more than he knows, and wait years for his return. I hope the OP and Glen get this worked out soon. It's in neither one's interest to have this thread out there.
Right or wrong...good or bad, I won't comment, but the OP got what he wanted.
Reminds me of the Old Chinese Curse....."may all your wishes come true".
J
- Status