Rip-off Report on Glen, The Real King Cobra

[Masayoshi]

After reading a good portion of this thread, I just figured I'd chime in with a few things:

realkingcobra:

As others have noted; RAISE YOUR PRICES. Simple econ 101. Low supply, high demand = high prices. Not meeting that equilibrium means you get a backlog 20 miles long and pissed off customers.

Because as you say, its not about money, use the extra money to hire someone to handle your schedule, business affairs, and public relations. This way you can work on tables all you like and bring them as close to perfection as you like without burning bridges along the way. It will also free up time for you to work on tables more, post on AZB more, relax more, etc. I would suggest you take the extra time to relax as you seem quite high strung from your posts.

When things wind down and you have retired from the business, do you want to be remembered as "That asshole who could build tables well" or "The BEST table mechanic EVER"? You may think people will remember you as the latter option even if you are an asshole, but I think the Bill Stroud incident provides pretty good evidence to the contrary.

I honestly respect that you strive for perfection in what you do, but am having trouble understanding why you would let something fairly simple and non-related taint that perfection. I hope you see things differently after this thread and come out a better person.

Highroller54:

I feel for you. I hope this all works out and you get your rails built by RKC or anyone to the specs you want in a timely manner.


Other table mechanics:

I would venture to guess that a reputable mechanic who offers to fix Highroller's table RIGHT NOW would get a massive PR boost and a waiting list a mile long. Even more so if you offered to do it free or at a discount.

 

[Mickey Qualls]

The best there is?!?! Here's my quote from another thread on here about my experience...

Here's the thread Idaho is referring to:
Mechanics... Diomond Tables

And while reading it, Post #224 stuck out at me...

I have more people waiting on me that I can get to in 5 lifetimes...so, who do I get to first, so that I don't piss somebody else off by not getting to them next??? If I can only get to 10 customers in the next 3 months, but have 100's waiting, if one of the 10 drop off the list... do you think I"m going to miss out on making that money from someone else, who also is on the waiting list?

Glen

Just a thought here...

You travel all over the country giving tables your time and attention. And as it's been stated time and again, you're very good at what you do.

You already have a reputation as one of the premier table mechanics in the country.

So please understand that this is not an attack on your skill set.

But as far as the business side of things, why not "section off" parts of the country you'll be in during the year ?? And make that a staple of your business ??

For example, you could be in the Southeast section of the country from, say, January to March. Anybody in that area that wants table work done, gets it done sometime during that period.
Then maybe from April to May or June, you're in the Northeast. And so on.

Done correctly, you could do "home" tables when you're in the area for the yearly pool hall work. The pool hall that hires you to redo their tables obviously wants you, so make them your primary reason for being there every year. Set a specific period of time annually (and make it a standing appointment) with them that works in conjunction with when you'll be in their area.
For instance, every year you might be at Click's North (Orlando) the second week of February. And at Click's South the first week of March. And the key here is that it's the same week every year.
If it's the same week every year, the owner can not only budget for that, but can make sure no tournaments o playoffs or anything are going on in the room that week.

The "home table" owners are an added bonus.

I only suggest the above areas for examples. You might have an abundance of business in one geographical area versus another that would determine the length of time in any specific area.

Only you would know that.

... Having said all of that and fully understanding the situation - RKC I want to get on your list to have an older red label Diamond nine foot professional brought up to the most recent specs with new rails, rails extended to make four inch pockets, and covered with tournament blue Simonis 860. :thumbup:

UGOT wants you to do his table. So, he waits until you're in that area of the country. It's that simple. And the bolded part means that he's willing to wait until then.

I think Glen should do what car dealers do. Build himself or carry a set of universal, loaner rails. Bolt em on, swap em back out when the job is done. That way, nobody gets pissed.... and glen can take all the time he wants.

The loaner rails would pay for themselves because customers wouldn't mind paying more if they didn't lose use of their table.

I don't know if this is a viable option. But if it is, then run with it. This alone would be a huge benefit to everyone involved. And nobody's down a table in the interim.

If you're as good as everyone says you are (and I'm not suggesting otherwise), then, in the words of Fast Eddie in TCOM, "Guys'll be killin' each other trying to get to you"

Please don't respond with a post that I don't know shit about your business. Because you're right. I don't know enough about what you do to make a career out of it.

But I do know how to run a business, especially one that already has a customer base.

Mickey <--- Who knows, you might find a little "Glen" time somewhere in all that

 

[CreeDo]

Because as you say, its not about money, use the extra money to hire someone to handle your schedule, business affairs, and public relations. This way you can work on tables all you like and bring them as close to perfection as you like without burning bridges along the way.

Or hire an apprentice. If he won't raise prices, then paying someone to organize won't actually reduce the backlog,
just slightly decrease the frustration on both ends.
But having someone handle the simple jobs would lighten the load.

"Glen's too backed up to do your table unless you wanted to wait 6-8 months.
Or... next week you can have someone personally trained by him who will do a very good job
for a little less than what Glen charges."

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

what I have ascertained from reading this thread.

glen is brusk, a p-r-i-c-k-l-y pear.

glen overpromises because he wants to help as many people as he can.

glen gave someone a hell of a price because they were having financial problems.

glen, unfortunately, did not get the op's rails done or communicate well with him.

glen works for the premier manufacturer of pool tables and has a lot of responsibilities with and for them all over the country.

a lot of people want to help glen learn how he can better run his business.

glen wants to keep his prices reasonable so more people can enjoy having their tables redone to the highest standard.

glen initially said he would send the rails back to the op along with the $250 he was paid.

glen later said he *never* walks off a job and the op will be getting his rails back, all redone.

glen isn't interested in people telling him how to run his business.

glen, remember, is a p-r-i-c-k-l-y pear.

what I know from firsthand experience:

glen is an amazing table mechanic - can't imagine anyone who knows or can do more.

glen has a heart of gold. Seriously, he does.

glen can be a p-r-i-c-k-l-y pear. :wink:

best,
brian kc

 

[kvinbrwr]

what I have ascertained from reading this thread.

glen is brusk, a p-r-i-c-k-l-y pear.

glen overpromises because he wants to help as many people as he can.

glen gave someone a hell of a price because they were having financial problems.

glen, unfortunately, did not get the op's rails done or communicate well with him.

glen works for the premier manufacturer of pool tables and has a lot of responsibilities with and for them all over the country.

a lot of people want to help glen to lear how he can better run his business.

glen wants to keep his prices reasonable so more people can enjoy having their tables redone to the highest standard.

glen initially said he would send the rails back to the op along with the $250.

glen later said he *never* walks off a job and the op will be getting his rails back, all redone.

glen isn't interested in people telling him how to run his business.

glen, remember, is a p-r-i-c-k-l-y pear.

what I know from firsthand experience:

glen is an amazing table mechanic - can't imagine anyone who knows or can do more.

glen has a heart of gold. Seriously, he does.

glen can be a p-r-i-c-k-l-y pear. :wink:

best,
brian kc

Brian

As I'm sure you know, any opportunity to form and express judgement is a feeding frenzy here in AZ land.

Meantime, the guy did your table TWICE (should have made it waterproof the first time)
and STILL got the color of the cloth wrong (or did you have that swapped out I forget).

1/2 the guys slamming RKC on this thread think a table mechanic covers and levels tables, which is like figuring Searing or Barry are guys that jam screws into wood.

Want your stuff worked on by the absolute best? Then you put up with the way the absolute best acts. The guy who does work like Glenn is Glenn. If you want Glenn's work then you take Glenn. Its really simple.

Kevin

 

[Black-Balled]

...Want your stuff worked on by the absolute best? Then you put up with the way the absolute best acts. The guy who does work like Glenn is Glenn. If you want Glenn's work then you take Glenn. Its really simple.

Kevin

Which is why I find it bordering on the unbelievable that the OP knew what he wanted, but not what he was getting.

 

[jhanso18]

Glen, have you made any progress with your pool table school idea? I think you were going to make a DVD, or start training people to do tables the Cobra way?

I can't remember exactly but I thought you were working on something like that. It seems to me the only way you will ever get even some what caught up is to make a few more Cobras...

I know your the best in the biz, and sometimes that means putting up with this and that to have the best product at your disposal. I would patiently wait a LONG time to play on a Cobra table.

best,

Justin

 

[kvinbrwr]

"Glen's too backed up to do your table unless you wanted to wait 6-8 months.
Or... next week you can have someone personally trained by him who will do a very good job
for a little less than what Glen charges."

I'm guessing that you are suggesting that Glenn or his apprentice say this to people?

He does, or he did. He may have stopped because recommending people carries its own risks.

I know of a Gold Crown out here in So Cal that happened just that way. Glenn suggested a guy that came out and did a bang-up job. However, what the customer was looking for was the absolute best Gold Crown set-up, and only one guy does that, so now the guy is in the position of waiting for RKC. Which is what you have to do. You want RKC, you wait. Don't want to wait? Or don't want to deal with who RKC is? Then choose someone else.

All this talk about RKC should be someone else is a little silly.

Even the OP recanted (although plenty of guys claim to be able to see into the OP's head and see his motivations). RKC didn't "rip any one off".

Kevin

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Brian

As I'm sure you know, any opportunity to form and express judgement is a feeding frenzy here in AZ land.

Meantime, the guy did your table TWICE (should have made it waterproof the first time)
and STILL got the color of the cloth wrong (or did you have that swapped out I forget).

1/2 the guys slamming RKC on this thread think a table mechanic covers and levels tables, which is like figuring Searing or Barry are guys that jam screws into wood.

Want your stuff worked on by the absolute best? Then you put up with the way the absolute best acts. The guy who does work like Glenn is Glenn. If you want Glenn's work then you take Glenn. Its really simple.

Kevin

and for whatever it's worth, I do think Glen messed up on this transaction. but I don't think it rises to the level of being lynched by a mob.

I am 100% confident that the op was never in danger of not getting his stuff back.

you don't have to implore Glen to 'make it right'. he's already wired to do that.

p-r-i-c-k-l-y and all.

best,
brian kc

 

[kvinbrwr]

Which is why I find it bordering on the unbelievable that the OP knew what he wanted, but not what he was getting.

You know man.

If you want Searing to build you a cue, you are going to wait. There will be missed deadlines. Searing will dissapear while he works on a new glue formula or taper design and not return your phone calls. He is going to drive you crazy. When you get your cue you will be floored by the precision.

Don't want to put up with Searing? Buy something else or pay double and get one on the secondary market. I guess its too bad you can't get a RKC set-up on the secondary market from a dealer.

Kevin

 

[UGOTDA7]

RKC's theme song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrILFP1vc0

 

[kvinbrwr]

RKC's theme song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrILFP1vc0

I knew what the song was going to be before I clicked.

Funny how many guys that do the absolute best work at something are just exactly that way.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[CreeDo]

Want your stuff worked on by the absolute best? Then you put up with the way the absolute best acts.

I guess that's one option. But there's actually a 2nd option:
Hire the absolute best, but DON'T put up with the way the absolute best acts.

Call him out when he treats you poorly. Publicly.
Then get your job finished faster than it would have been otherwise,
and possibly for free if the "absolute best" realizes he really dropped the ball.
Then maybe the "absolute best" handles his future business a little better
so he doesn't have to deal with public complaints and shell out refunds.

To me, that's a much more sensible plan.

And if it backfires, at least you did some good
for the future customers who may not understand what they're getting into.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I guess that's one option. But there's actually a 2nd option:
Hire the absolute best, but DON'T put up with the way the absolute best acts.

Call him out when he treats you poorly. Publicly.
Then get your job finished faster than it would have been otherwise,
and possibly for free if the "absolute best" realizes he really dropped the ball.
Then maybe the "absolute best" handles his future business a little better
so he doesn't have to deal with public complaints and shell out refunds.

To me, that's a much more sensible plan.

And if it backfires, at least you did some good
for the future customers who may not understand what they're getting into.

Oh sure, lots of ways you can act, and then, as I said, you will "put up with the way the absolute best acts".

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I don't know a thing about Glen and I'll never need his services, so I really have no horse in this race. But really? If I woke up and saw a post on the Main forum titled, "Rip-off Report on Sloppy Pockets", well, I'd be on here in a minute with my fists flying.

Why do folks think that a private business dealing that doesn't go your way needs to have an Amber Alert sent out about it? Are you trying to "save" others, or are you seeking the only revenge you can find? I don't blame Glen a bit for airing the OP's IRS problems after an opening salvo like that.

The OP likely used his problems as a ploy to get a reduced price. Why else would he extend such intimate and embarrassing info to anybody but a close friend or family member. Glen bought it, gave the guy a fantastic price, and look what he has to deal with now.

I've been there, done that as far as fine workmanship for sale goes. Trust me, raising prices won't help. In a niche market like table mechanics, in a world where there are less experienced mechanics every year, raising your prices will likely boomerang on you and you'll get even more work coming your way, but with an even higher state of expectations.

I started out my business almost 35 years ago during the Reagan recession, when I was jobless and unemployment was at a record high. I really didn't know what I was doing, so I charged a bench rate of $10/hr in order to be fair. Turns out most musicians can't tell good work from mediocre, so everybody was satisfied with my early efforts. I slowly raised both my hourly and flat rate prices as I improved, and folks complained about it at first, but they kept coming back, as well as recommending new customers to me.

Within five years I started to get bogged down in work. Regular maintenance work for active musicians always got top priority because these folks needed their instruments to earn a living on, but the majority of my income was starting to come in from dealers, collectors and investors. These were more along the lines of restoration projects, and restoration takes whatever time it takes. I had to fit in a few hours here and there, but some of these items were very high-ticket, so the dealers and investors would start to push me harder.

The only solution I saw was to raise my prices and let the market sort things out. I remember back when I raised my bench rate to $45/hr. I thought that would at least eliminate all but the cream of the crop. Nope, not in the least. In fact, the higher price seemed to solidify my rep as THE go-to guy for instrument repair. Even the lowliest string players in the area were bringing their junk to me. Pressure on me increased as the demand for my services increased. I no longer could get that bow rehaired for you while you had lunch down the street, I had to establish a two business day return policy. That setup that you once got back in a week became a month, and if you had something that needed extensive repair and restoration... well, it was at least 4-6 months down the road before you had a chance of seeing it together again.

It is not a great place to be in. The pressure didn't bother me as much as the loss intimacy I once had with my clientele. They went from being people with whom I could converse with to being just numbers and dates on the calendar. The phone rang constantly, and it was always someone trying to demand more of my time. My shop rate was up to $75/hr, but I was now backlogged for over a year. It felt like trying to juggle several dozen balls at once, all different sizes, and I was afraid I might get careless and drop one and loose all I had worked for.

Eventually I made the only decision I could. I closed shop and went back to school to try to get into something less stressful... like medicine. :grin-square:

Good luck with the shit storm you got steered into, Glen. As a fellow perfectionist in craft, I truly sympathize with you, even without knowing you. My prediction is that Tony is going to get his rails back and be tickled pink, that he'll come back on here with a thread about how great your work is, that his table never played like this, and that it was worth the wait. But, hey, I'm a sunny optimist, that's what made me think I could work like three men back in the day.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Still would consider steering work to others

Or consider hiring someone to work for you.

The former might be difficult to do as there may not be enough qualified people in certain areas.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

a trip down bad memory lane . . .

Brian

As I'm sure you know, any opportunity to form and express judgement is a feeding frenzy here in AZ land.

Meantime, the guy did your table TWICE (should have made it waterproof the first time)
and STILL got the color of the cloth wrong (or did you have that swapped out I forget).
1/2 the guys slamming RKC on this thread think a table mechanic covers and levels tables, which is like figuring Searing or Barry are guys that jam screws into wood.

Want your stuff worked on by the absolute best? Then you put up with the way the absolute best acts. The guy who does work like Glenn is Glenn. If you want Glenn's work then you take Glenn. Its really simple.

Kevin

many az'ers finally got me to see the error of my ways, which, btw, I still like the camel cloth with the aqua table combo but I have to admit, the new tangerine with tourney blue cloth has really grown on me.

As well as getting rid of the lally columns and doing a few other upgrades to the room.

that was a genuine tester

but, with glen's, and a few others help, I believe I got some lemonade out of the lemon.

notice the nice protective cover I bought for her.

best,
brian kc <---- still amazed and very appreciative that RKC drove all the way from VA to CT to get me fixed back up.

 

[kvinbrwr]

many az'ers finally got me to see the error of my ways, which, btw, I still like the camel cloth with the aqua table combo but I have to admit, the new tangerine with tourney blue cloth has really grown on me.

As well as getting rid of the lally columns and doing a few other upgrades to the room.

that was a genuine tester

but, with glen's, and a few others help, I believe I got some lemonade out of the lemon.

notice the nice protective cover I bought for her.

best,
brian kc <---- still amazed and very appreciative that RKC drove all the way from VA to CT to get me fixed back up.

That table is so good I can't stand it, and I know it plays perfect. Perfect old Gold Crown.

Ernie Gutierrez will completely tear down one of his old 60s Ginas and then rebuild it back up using modern techniques and materials and it will be better than old and better than new.

That's what RKC can do with an old Gold Crown. Some guys can do it almost as good with far fewer idiosyncrasies and to be frank, some guys can do it far less good with far more idiosyncrasies His work, and the lengths he is will to go to get his results are remarkable.

That's a great table you have there man. It must put a smile on your face every time you take the cover off it. Well worth some cigaret butts in your driveway.

Kevin

 

[RenoRex]

Posts like #223 are the main reason I log-on and
participate in these forums. Thank You

 

[jhanso18]

I think it's a good show of character from the forum that so many would flame a guy that has more to bring to this forum with 1 post then most do with 1000 posts.

Get real people. Glen is insanely busy, and there is NO good way to do what he does in a timely fashion. The OP has poor taste, and if you claim to come here to learn more, and help grow pool, don't throw one of the VERY FEW good people we have here under the bus!