Cliff Joyner looking for sponsors

[JB Cases]

lol. Another JB special. Your prop would be pretty stupid to take on my part. All I have to go on is what was said in public and to that end you had no permission, got banned, and got reinstated.

This is really simple: Mike -- did John have your permission to create the alias "Roadie" irrespective of forum rules? I know you don't owe anyone any explanation as to how you run your site, but I recall you said, after the fact, that John talked his way back in after being banned. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but that's how I remember it.

Lou Figueroa

No, no one said anything about permissions.

Furthermore Mike did not say anything about John talking his way back on. As well you don't even know the reason why I was banned. So all you do is speculate and try to distract from current conversations.

But since you think you can use this forever let's address it. Roadie never insulted anyone and merely pointed out that you constantly defamed others. The record is clear that you broke the rules hundreds of times for harassment and name calling. Both you and PoolSharkAllen have broken the rules hundreds of times. And now you think that every time you are called on it by me you can say but look at John, he was banned for rule breaking. Yes I was. I did my time, paid the price, and now am here. So don't think that you can use the past to deflect from your current activities. If you or PSA decide to do that which you knock others for then expect to be called on it. The fact is that you could not handle it when you were confronted with a person you could not identify who politely but firmly exposed your transgressions.

You conveniently skip over the questions so I will ask you again?

Do you think it's ok that PoolSharkAllen (and you) break, as in currently, the rules?

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Well, there is a reason you don't bet much. It's not your recollection that is faulty it's your lack of knowledge leading you speculate.

Again deflecting from the actual breaking of the rules that you committed in THIS thread.

Answer the question, do you think it's ok for YOU to break the rules.

Except that Wilson is wrong and in several polls I was not voted off the island. Sure it WAS a headache to field complaints from people I argued with. I get it that people can't take it when their points are continually hammered and that when they then get personal I hammered them even more. I understand the dynamic at play.

But again this is about YOU, here and now.

You attacked Jennie, called her names, and quoted her out of context to harass her. Those are clear violations of the present rules committed now. So what do you think should happen to you as a rule breaker?

YOU made it a point of following people around and reporting their rule breaking and so I ask you again if YOU think it's ok that you break the rules?

JB,
You're a perfect example of the old adage: "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

You are wrong about this and just about everything else. In February, you openly admitted that you are a mean-spirited person as shown below:

I am not saying that I was right or wrong on any topic. But I have handled things very very badly in the past. I have met hate with hate, met verbal violence with more verbal aggression, taken personal slurs to heart and tried to dole out even nastier ones.

Mike banished me for six months for making what I thought was a fairly innocent comment about people obviously wanting to fight and fighting being allowed on AZB for the most part. Whether that lengthy ban was warranted for that comment or not I still did plenty of attacking in the past that warranted a lengthy ban.

I came to the conclusion that whether I am right or not when I go-off on someone then no one cares who was right. The topic is then lost and it becomes only name calling and insults. And I have to say that when the adrenaline gets going then it's addictive to want to get in the best zingers.

But it's not productive. At all. Maybe entertaining on some level but ultimately sad and hurtful. Believe it or not I am a peaceful person and I don't hold grudges. A few years ago I tried to eliminate the word hate from my vocabulary and not even use it casually as in I hate red pool cues. It's time to do that again.

I have been in this business for 25 years. I started selling cues as a teenager. I started making cue cases when I was 23 years old. I have been extremely lucky in my life to have been able to travel the world with this sport. I have tried to share those experiences where relevant on these forums. To that end I do think I have put up a lot of good content.

Unfortunately I spoiled a lot of it with the mean-spirited and nasty fights I have been in.

So for that I want to apologize.

------------------------------------------------------------

To the forum. I am sorry for subjecting you all to my tirades and rants when I felt I was only defending myself. I was often way out of line.

To Mike Howerton: You are one of my oldest friends in this business and I apologize for having been a huge headache to you.

Joe Van Buren: I am sorry that I did not respond professionally to your comments. Where I have been out of line and met your insults with more personal attacks I am truly sorry for that.

Jack Justis: No matter what I think about how you slighted me I had no grounds to wage an all-out campaign against you. We make leather bags not nuclear missiles. Again, I am very sorry about my actions towards you.

Monstermash (sorry don't know your name): I am sorry that I took personal offense at your actions and went on the offensive against you. You deserved a professional and courteous response to anything you said and did rather than a heated and emotional over the top one.

Snipershot: I have no idea what it is I that I did that made you threaten to kill me but I apologize for whatever I said to you that caused that reaction.

Craig Rittel: We have long resolved our differences but I still owe you a public apology for the level of argument that I took it to.

Michael Lalumiere: Although I unfortunately still harbor some major resentment against you I want to apologize for allowing myself to escalate our fights to unreasonable levels.

Eric Hu: I am sorry that I didn't just let your comments slide and took them personally. I should be tougher and not take your ribbing to heart.

Bobby Chamberlain: I apologize for going after you. You were only defending your friend and I wrapped you up in the general animosity I was feeling. I should have responded to your comments professionally and courteously.

Dave Wilson: Your job is tough and I apologize for making it tougher.

Ok, well I am sure I will remember more later or possibly those who feel I owe them an apology will let me know. In any case the bottom line is this. No matter what the topic is it can always be discussed and debated without personal insults. When those insults happen though they don't have to be met with even more insults.

I know that now. That doesn't mean that I won't ever want to go off on someone if they are being deliberately mean. Inside I want to but I understand that I need to keep it professional.

So again, to the forum, thank you for indulging and tolerating me and I do sincerely apologize for subjecting you to my bad side in the past. All I can really say is to use the only quote from Thomas Wayne that resonates with me at the core, "passion is a hard thing to conceal".

John Barton

To put it mildly, JB's ongoing misconduct is an embarrassment to the forum.

 

[lfigueroa]

No, no one said anything about permissions.

Furthermore Mike did not say anything about John talking his way back on. As well you don't even know the reason why I was banned. So all you do is speculate and try to distract from current conversations.

You conveniently skip over the questions so I will ask you again?

Do you think it's ok that PoolSharkAllen (and you) break, as in currently, the rules?

Ha, ha, ha. Classic John. Clearly, I was talking about your claim to have permission to create an alias -- a claim I believe, based on the public record, to be bogus. So to say "No, no one said anything about permission" is a lie because that was my point. Perhaps, conveniently, not yours ;-)

Like I said, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but my recollection is that Mike said you talked him into making an exemption to the rule for you, after the fact.

As to the rest, I am not and never was interested in your questions to PSA. I just thought your position against him was past ironic given your own apparent and flagrant disregard for forum rules, Roadie, and how you vociferously denied being Roadie when confronted... but before getting whacked.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

Someone brought up John Brumback. He's another example of a pro that I'm sure would have no problem getting a stake on AZ. He's always conducted himself with class (around me at least) and I've never heard a bad word about him in the pool world.

I think the point that some are missing is that most of the pro players would have no problem getting a stake on here, as long as they haven't stepped on any toes along the way or burned any bridges. Cliff has "earned" every bit of the criticism he's taking by his actions. You can't go around putting the bite on people and doing "other" less than righteous things for so long without it catching up to you.

Nobody is out to get pro players. Some of you are living in fantasy land.

98% agreed.

2% where I don't agree is that SOME people here while not out to "get" pros, have zero respect for them on any level and can't wait for any chance to knock one. The only exception is when the pro agrees with their personal philosophy of how to play pool and in that case the pro is exempt from the usual knocking. Yes Lou I am talking about you and those like you who are thankfully in the minority.

 

[JB Cases]

JB,
You're a perfect example of the old adage: "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

You are wrong about this and just about everything else. In February, you openly admitted that you are a mean-spirited person as shown below:

​

To put it mildly, JB's ongoing misconduct is an embarrassment to the forum.

What ongoing misconduct? If I have broken a rule please report it. Are you going to complain now because when I happen to notice that the number one rules-monitor breaks a rule I highlight it? Is that what you consider to be misconduct?

You harassed Jennie and called her a name. That has nothing to do with me. That's you instigating drama and breaking the rules to do it.

I simply pointed it out that you are breaking the rules. Which you did.

And I asked you if you think it's ok if you break the rules. You could have made your points without the namecalling and harassment, possibly.

So again, do you think it's ok if YOU break the rules?

 

[JB Cases]

Ha, ha, ha. Classic John. Clearly, I was talking about your claim to have permission to create an alias -- a claim I believe, based on the public record, to be bogus. So to say "No, no one said anything about permission" is a lie because that was my point. Perhaps, conveniently, not yours ;-)

Like I said, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but my recollection is that Mike said you talked him into making an exemption to the rule for you, after the fact.

As to the rest, I am not and never was interested in your questions to PSA. I just thought your position against him was past ironic given your own apparent and flagrant disregard for forum rules, Roadie, and how you vociferously denied being Roadie when confronted... but before getting whacked.

Lou Figueroa

I didn't claim to have permission I said that you don't KNOW whether anyone has ever had permission to or not. Certainly Wilson, Mike or Jerry has NEVER said anything about me and permission to create an alias on here which is what you insinuated.

Your recollections are entirely fabricated because they are not based on facts or anything anyone said.

As for Roadie, again whoever that was was nice to you while pointing out that you constantly knock and DEFAME others. Something you constantly do. Sure it would have been great if you could have had a "name" to use to deflect from the points made as you are doing with me now. But you didn't and you were hammered by the facts.

As for my position on rule breaking I could care less if anyone but PSA does it. Given that he constantly harassed and reported me for rules violations, the same that he and dozens of others commit daily here, I find it very hypocritical when he does it flagrantly now.

You would think that a person who stalked another person as he did to me would be be more careful about name calling and harassment going forward. But I won't report him because that's not my style, calling him out in public is enough.

For both of you, I am the same person I always was, just nicer on this forum because that's the way the game is played here. Here I have to say things in a nicer way because that is what the rules are and as well it's just more peaceful to be nice. But don't mistake kindness for weakness. When you defame, when PSA breaks the rules I will call you on it if I happen to see it.

You dog the pros you don't agree with. You dog the teachers you don't agree with. PSA instigates drama in just about every comment he makes. That's how it is. You aren't going to change and neither am I. Some day you both will make a mistake and get banned. When that day comes a part of the forum will say a silent thanks. As I am sure a part was happy to see me gone. Anyway, it is what it is and I am here to remind you and PSA that you can't knock without at least one person standing up to your bullying.

 

[JB Cases]

JB,
You're a perfect example of the old adage: "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

You are wrong about this and just about everything else. In February, you openly admitted that you are a mean-spirited person as shown below:

​

To put it mildly, JB's ongoing misconduct is an embarrassment to the forum.

And another thing I am not a mean-spirited person but I did make mean comments in the heat of the battle. That's what I was referring to in my February post.

That does not mean that I will allow you or any other bullies to attack myself or my friends on this site without speaking out. I was not beaten into silence only into consideration for being professional rather than going for the jugular.

I would like to see this place be free of people like you so that people like me could have good discussions about the game and the industry. To me your actions are bullying and disruptive. If we took out all of your posts from the forum the forum would be no worse off. But if we took out my posts then the forum would be worse off.

If we were to count all the posts by professional players and industry pros who won't even come here because of the climate people like you create then the forum is nowhere near as great as it could be. So you and a few others disproportionately get to degrade the quality of the forum and hold it back from being really great.

That's my point of view and has been for a long long time.

 

[watchez]

Do you have a product for Cliff to advertise? NO
Are you interested as a backer for a %? NO

So what are your motives to come in this thread and keep trying to say Cliff is asking for a handout to take a vacation? Nevermind. I already know.

Ray

Can we keep this thread about Cliff?

Ray - if Cliff was looking for a billiard company to sponsor him then he should probably start by reaching out to them individually, not here by having a friend start a thread and basically attempting to nail jello to a wall.

Asking in the main forum, Cliff or anyone is 99.6% asking an audience that has no ties to any product in the billiard market place.

 

[Bigtruck]

Can we keep this thread about Cliff?

Ray - if Cliff was looking for a billiard company to sponsor him then he should probably start by reaching out to them individually, not here by having a friend start a thread and basically attempting to nail jello to a wall.

Asking in the main forum, Cliff or anyone is 99.6% asking an audience that has no ties to any product in the billiard market place.

The person posting for Cliff was his very close friend who only posted with him present or on his request. Yes he is reaching out other places as well. Cliff is really making an effort to get on the right path. He's one of the greatest talents of our time whom, like many players, given the chance to earn a decent wage in the Industry he loves, will shine.

Not sure why they decided to post here where assholes shit on everything they can get away with, and it's plenty. Not plenty of A-Holes but plenty of pushing the limits.

Access to the Pro's will be the first thing to diminish when Pro Pool becomes a tour and a viable way to make a living and none will be here posting anything.

Ray

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Ray, I think Dave did a fine job of ridding the forums of the actual trolls.

Now that Lock has given you the designation of Sgt At Arms, you've taken it upon yourself to brand anyone that has an opinion or fact that goes against what you believe in, to be Haters or Key Board Cowboys.

In the old days, we used to call this Club Fever, or Patch Fever.

All A Holes? Hardly. Read one of my last posts and tell me that you can't remember when one of ours has been down and out and the whole works of us has got together
and helped one of our bros out of a tough spot.

I remember when you posted a link from Face Book to AZ. It was for a charity tourney or something. Well, here comes ole Lock slapping you on the back telling you how great you are for posting a link. He said, "Ray, you're the man. That's what we do, that's what we're all about"

And damn, to this day, I still haven't figured out what the World Famous Lock Society is all about.

And I can't even or don't want to get into the PMs I received from people that actually play at Buffalo.

Anyway, you should dump the Patch Fever Ray. It's childish, grow up.

And also realize that the AZ members are a great bunch of guys, and just because we can see a bite coming a country mile away, that doesn't make us A Holes, were just not
A bunch of suckers. Tell us exactly how much Escarole that you have taken out of your pocket on this one.
Yeah, zero. All talk and no action.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

What ??????

Can we keep this thread about Cliff?

Ray - if Cliff was looking for a billiard company to sponsor him then he should probably start by reaching out to them individually, not here by having a friend start a thread and basically attempting to nail jello to a wall.

Asking in the main forum, Cliff or anyone is 99.6% asking an audience that has no ties to any product in the billiard market place.

C'mon Watchez, How many people bet on a racehorse? What % of them are in the racing industry?

 

[JB Cases]

guess people are too wrapped up in arguing to pay attention to my proposed player/backer marketplace idea

I have 20k to bet on Bart vs. WrldPro if anyone like WorldPro's side of it speak up. The money won't be here long though as I intend to invest it into product that will 100% bring me a higher return.

For Cliff, sorry man, this is really the wrong venue for you or your friend to ask for money. Wish it were different but this isn't the first rodeo for a lot of us and while you are an amazing player with a ton of knowledge people need a little more solid reputation to invest in.

You know that I am always up for a $100 worth of one pocket lessons though any time you see me.

Don't forget lessons as a revenue stream though. You can pump up on those easily I bet. I know that what you have taught me has paid off many times.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

No No

Ray, I think Dave did a fine job of ridding the forums of the actual trolls.

Now that Lock has given you the designation of Sgt At Arms, you've taken it upon yourself to brand anyone that has an opinion or fact that goes against what you believe in, to be Haters or Key Board Cowboys.

In the old days, we used to call this Club Fever, or Patch Fever.

All A Holes? Hardly. Read one of my last posts and tell me that you can't remember when one of ours has been down and out and the whole works of us has got together
and helped one of our bros out of a tough spot.

I remember when you posted a link from Face Book to AZ. It was for a charity tourney or something. Well, here comes ole Lock slapping you on the back telling you how great you are for posting a link. He said, "Ray, you're the man. That's what we do, that's what we're all about"

And damn, to this day, I still haven't figured out what the World Famous Lock Society is all about.

And I can't even or don't want to get into the PMs I received from people that actually play at Buffalo.

Anyway, you should dump the Patch Fever Ray. It's childish, grow up.

And also realize that the AZ members are a great bunch of guys, and just because we can see a bite coming a country mile away, that doesn't make us A Holes, were just not
A bunch of suckers. Tell us exactly how much Escarole that you have taken out of your pocket on this one.
Yeah, zero. All talk and no action.

Stop Ray, Don't do it , You are the Sgt. of Arms, They can't can't take that away. Not sure what it entails, But keep the title, It sounds good to me. Maybe someday I can be one. Don't give in, Say no. You, My friend are the Sgt. of arm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JAM]

Iook...Cliff's not looking for a gambling stake...He is looking for a shot at the tournement...He is still a dangerous horse with a shot in any tourny he enters...I've heard all the stories & witnessed a few first hand but in this case it's betting on a horse at the horse race...If you like his chances bet..if you don't pass...all the other stuff can be saved for another day and another dicussion...I watched cliff in New Orleans run $300 into almost 20k and blow it all back playing craps...Most people would have never give themselves the chance to get 20k up much less blow it back...people like Cliff need a money responsible person pulling the strings...I've been on both sides the fence & gambling & tournements are 2 diff beast altogether...justr my 2 cents.

GREAT POST! I was beginning to lose faith in the AzBilliards forum community, and then Houma Troy comes to the rescue. Thank you!

 

[JAM]

...How many people bet on a racehorse? What % of them are in the racing industry?

I don't know who you are, 1 Lone Wolf, but I like your style! Keep posting, and I will keep reading. :smile:

 

[JAM]

Stop Ray, Don't do it , You are the Sgt. of Arms, They can't can't take that away. Not sure what it entails, But keep the title, It sounds good to me. Maybe someday I can be one. Don't give in, Say no. You, My friend are the Sgt. of arm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Lock Society was created to be a virtual club for pool enthusiasts, nothing more and nothing less.

It is creation of AzBilliards member Lock N Lock. His goal was to bring pool aficionados together and form a camaraderie where people can chat with each other about pool-related topics in a positive manner. The sky is the limit on what is said, but the recurrent theme is upbeat and positive. No time for the negativity in the Lock Society. There's plenty of other places on the Internet to engage in topics that contain negative thoughts. The Lock Society reserves its space for positive thinking.

There are some who oppose the Lock Society, and that's okay. Those who do enjoy the Lock Society take a different view. To each, their own!

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Some people just can't understand ............

:angry:

guess people are too wrapped up in arguing to pay attention to my proposed player/backer marketplace idea

I have 20k to bet on Bart vs. WrldPro if anyone like WorldPro's side of it speak up. The money won't be here long though as I intend to invest it into product that will 100% bring me a higher return.

For Cliff, sorry man, this is really the wrong venue for you or your friend to ask for money. Wish it were different but this isn't the first rodeo for a lot of us and while you are an amazing player with a ton of knowledge people need a little more solid reputation to invest in.

You know that I am always up for a $100 worth of one pocket lessons though any time you see me.

Don't forget lessons as a revenue stream though. You can pump up on those easily I bet. I know that what you have taught me has paid off many times.

Once again, You make comments that don't make since . Putting Cliff down while praising how much you have learned from him. If I were Cliff I would personally thank you . I bet you tell your friends in China how good of buddies you are with Cliff too.
For someone that markets product for your business I bet you would sell a lot more of your made in China cases in the U. S. if you didn't speak at all.
You look like the south end of a north bound horse , Add some $ to some tournaments if you would like to promote pool and quit putting people down on there luck further down with your comments.

 

[JB Cases]

:angry:
Once again, You make comments that don't make since . Putting Cliff down while praising how much you have learned from him. If I were Cliff I would personally thank you . I bet you tell your friends in China how good of buddies you are with Cliff too.
For someone that markets product for your business I bet you would sell a lot more of your made in China cases in the U. S. if you didn't speak at all.
You look like the south end of a north bound horse , Add some $ to some tournaments if you would like to promote pool and quit putting people down on there luck further down with your comments.

Don't sweat it. You don't get it I am on your side but you can't reasonably expect that a person known for the "bite" is going to be well received here. It was a bad idea to come here and ask for money in Cliff's position and especially the way it was done.

I am not putting Cliff down, I like him and have always been ready to hand him some dough when I see him. As I said though I know that I am NOT going to see that loan repaid in cash. So I ask for a lesson and get it. That's a fair transaction to me.

So are you gonna be another China basher? I can guarantee you I know more about the business of pool than you ever will. I owned a pool room. I owned a bar. I have been in the billiard business since I was a teenager. And through my businesses I have supported pool and pool players. I have paid rent for players, sent money to their families, got their stuff out of the pawn shop, put them into big events, loaned them my car, set up exhibitions and clinics for them to earn EASY money, printed flyers for them, done resumes for them, done photo shoots and helped them with travel plans, bought their tickets and just about everything except wipe their asses.

So don't presume to tell me what I know about pro pool and the players or what I know about the business.

Cliff's reputation precedes him and the person who decided to put up this thread should have known that going in. You can sugar coat it all you want to but that is the reality of the situation. You coming at me with what you think are personal insults attacking my business doesn't change that.

I put up some very good suggestions here. I am 100% positive Cliff could PUMP UP easily to get enough money for Tunica just by giving lessons. No one here would think to say anything negative if he was booking lessons instead of asking for money.

I also don't tell anyone I am friends with Cliff because I am not. We know each other and he knows I am a soft touch for the bite. When we see each other I am always willing to donate at 11:4 and have never won but I will keep trying. I am pretty sure that I have done more for more players than you ever have. So try this on someone else and HOPE that I sell a ton of cases because when I sponsor and use a player's name then I make it a cash deal and don't just hand out one case.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Oh geez, give it a break Jam. This virtual club for pool enthusiasts was formed within a virtual club for pool enthusiasts known as AZ Billiards.

Only positive posts? Many Lock Society members partake in the negative threads as well.

Don't try and come off as this little Imaginary tree house club was conceived to counter act all the negativity on AZ Billiards.

It was conceived by a person that gave himself the name of Lock and Load.
He showed up on AZ one day spreading the word of the World Famous Lock Society.

One member and supposedly another by the name of Buddy Hall. To this day, there has been no proof that Buddy Hall is actually a member.

Also, to this day, I have seen absolutely zero proof of anything that the Lock Society has done, achieved or what they actually stand for. Other than a lot of back and butt slapping.

The World Famous Lock Society. Famous, for what? World Famous, I seriously doubt it. Go to Poland, the Ukraine, the Czech
Republic, Russia and ask anyone if they have any knowledge of the Lock Society. The only locks that they know of are the ones on their doors.

Yeah, when the people are standing around the fish and chip shack in London, I doubt that the topic of conversation is in regard to the World Famous Lock Society.

Even if I had have kept the PMs that I received from people that actually play at Buffalo, the Worlds Pool Hall, I wouldn't have disclosed their names nor their messages, but trust me, at the Worlds Pool Hall, it's nothing but a huge joke.

Sorry that I had to be such a hater on this one, but you should stop pretending that it is something that it is not.

 

[Fatboy]

Oh geez, give it a break Jam. This virtual club for pool enthusiasts was formed within a virtual club for pool enthusiasts known as AZ Billiards.

Only positive posts? Many Lock Society members partake in the negative threads as well.

Don't try and come off as this little Imaginary tree house club was conceived to counter act all the negativity on AZ Billiards.

It was conceived by a person that gave himself the name of Lock and Load.
He showed up on AZ one day spreading the word of the World Famous Lock Society.

One member and supposedly another by the name of Buddy Hall. To this day, there has been no proof that Buddy Hall is actually a member.

Also, to this day, I have seen absolutely zero proof of anything that the Lock Society has done, achieved or what they actually stand for. Other than a lot of back and butt slapping.

The World Famous Lock Society. Famous, for what? World Famous, I seriously doubt it. Go to Poland, the Ukraine, the Czech
Republic, Russia and ask anyone if that have any knowledge of the Lock Society. The only locks that they know of are the ones on their doors.

Yeah, when the people are standing around the fish and chip shack in London, I doubt that the topic of conversation is in regard to the World Famous Lock Society.

Even if I had have kept the PMs that I received from people that actually play at Buffalo, the Worlds Pool Hall, I wouldn't have disclosed their names nor their messages, but trust me, at the Worlds Pool Hall, it's nothing but a huge joke.

Sorry that I had to be such a hater on this one, but you should stop pretending that it is something that it is not.

it a little tree house with gum drops and rainbow's, next year if the fund raiser goes well were to rent a unicorn. your welcome to join us:smile::joyful::happydance: