In regards to Bonus Ball

[JC]

My unimportant opinion.

The stream sucked, everyone can agree on that

As for the game itself...

1-Pockets need to be bigger (I watch POCKET billiards to see good players pocket balls)
2-Time clock needs to be longer (in a team game i want the guys playing to have time to high five and whoop it up a little after a great shot, not run back and forth to the table as if they're on fire)
3-If 90% of the games are going to go to a shootout why even bother playing for 15 minutes? Just do the shootout In other words revisit point #1...lol.
4-I want the players to look less stressed. Revisit point #2 again

IMO get rid of the time clock altogether, change the game to an innings format with each team having a separate time clock (view curling).

ROUGH EXAMPLE: Each team has 10 innings, you shoot till you miss, then your teams inning is over. Each team has a 15 minute clock and 2 time outs which they can use however they want, (team clock starts when all balls have stopped rolling) if they have a tough shot and want to look at it for 2 minute then thats up to them they just have 13 minutes left on their clock, if their clock gets to zero then they forfeit the reminder of their innings. Play until both teams have completed their 10 innings or ran out their clocks, whichever comes first. Whowever has more points at that point wins that game.

And let me re iterate: Change the color of the bonus ball. Don't make it so much work to keep track of what's what out there. Lot's of colors to choose from that don't look like purple or orange.

JC

 

[watchez]

Nathan - have you really talked to the pros? I've talked to 3 of them. Their opinion is much different than yours. Along with your inflated numbers are simply doing more harm than good. 10,000 unique viewers on Thursday 240,000 hits in one day. All b.s.

 

[golubushka]

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[Socopool79]

Brutal

All this negativity I have read on certain posts are just plain brutal. It seems like so many people are here just to watch this thing fail. Some people just can't stand to have change or see other people succeed. It reminds me of going to the casino with someone and they get off on seeing you lose your money. Your either part of the problem or part of the solution.

 

[JAM]

All this negativity I have read on certain posts are just plain brutal. It seems like so many people are here just to watch this thing fail. Some people just can't stand to have change or see other people succeed. It reminds me of going to the casino with someone and they get off on seeing you lose your money. Your either part of the problem or part of the solution.

This is a similar observation I have. There's also a little bit of pool politics blended in as well. :wink:

 

[pooler]

it bothers me ...

[...]I'm not a network guy, nor is that my job, nor is it that of anyone else on my crew. [...] My crew runs a massive production setup here, and push a stream to the servers. What happens past that point is not my concern...

[...] The work comes from about 8,000 lines of code that runs the entire system [...] has our own PPV streaming platform that costs us pennies in bandwidth (rather than thousands per week) [...] fallback to ustream system in case of stream failure, etc. [...]

Above are two excerpts from Nathan's posts.

Now, regarding the disastrous live streaming attempts:
is this possible that this failure was truly caused by simply trying to experiment with their "... own PPV streaming platform that costs us pennies in bandwidth (rather than thousands per week)... " ???

It bothers me; some facts presented (claims) are just not straight...

I am not an expert in streaming but some of the posters clearly are...

Any opinions ???

Just to make matters clear:
I am a supporter of anything that would bring positives to our sport. No "hating" on my side.

 

[Bigtruck]

Brian..

Why is it that if someone has a different view they are called "Haters"?

Don

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

 

[Socopool79]

This is a similar observation I have. There's also a little bit of pool politics blended in as well. :wink:

Of course there is JAM. You have the old guard vs. the new guard so to speak. You have people who have been promoting events for a long time and a new kid comes on the block who potentially threatens their current situation. Nine out of ten times when this happens people react hostile to protect what they have. It is a natural human reaction. Then you have the people who are followers and just go along with the common theme that is posted on these forums. It becomes almost like propaganda to a certain degree. My thought has always been that if your product is strong enough you will always succeed (referring to the promoters and the events that they put on) no matter what happens. However every once in awhile something new comes along and it might change the whole game. Even if it doesn't so what. At least someone took a rip at it and then everything will go back to like it was. What's the difference?

 

[JAM]

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Where is that LIKE button?

LIKE!

 

[Socopool79]

very rare

It's very rare that a production goes smooth the very first time it's put on especially when it's live. Not for nothing it's FREE. And I'm sure it will continue to be free until they get it right. Why complain when it's FREE. Let them work out the glitches and then give them a chance.

 

[pooler]

Brian..

Why is it that if someone has a different view they are called "Haters"?

Don

:smile:

Term: "Hater":
"Overused word that people like to use just because someone else expresses a dislike..."

Source:
Urban Dictionary (position 2):
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hater

:grin:

 

[Goldy]

I've been too busy with damage control to check the forums this weekend, but I'm assuming things here are pretty bitter and negative. I just wanted to quickly make a statement or two.

For one, I run the production company. I'm not a network guy, nor is that my job, nor is it that of anyone else on my crew. Those services are offered by a dedicated company. My crew runs a massive production setup here, and push a stream to the servers. What happens past that point is not my concern (although Im totally to blame for the missing audio on the first 10 minutes on day 1 however.

Keep up the great work with the production Nathan! That end of things is flawless!

Both the website hosting and video delivery network crashed under the high traffic. They said it wouldn't but clearly it did. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Although today the host switched us over to a tier 3 VPS and promised it would handle the load (plus I personally added some additional horsepower to the server in hopes of saving the day), it still got crushed within minutes. We ended up just streaming a low quality feed to ustream at the lowest bitrate possible, which clearly sucked ass.

This is where I'm scratching my head. This is no insult to anyone's intelligence for feelings!! Constructive as it be, please...

Even though it's not any of my business or concern! Why didn't you guys ask for at least consulting in getting your own dedicated streaming server(s) for Bonus Ball?

With a business that HAS TO SUCCEED at all costs, I would hope that whomever said that the live streaming portion was operational and tested would have had at least asked for help or to be consulted if there was even a shed of a doubt that this would blow up.

But I guess at this point, it doesn't matter. What matters is getting the live stream up and operational and configured properly. Putting this project on a VPS (Virtual Private Server), and subbing out Amazon Instances w/ Wowza Media server is not even gonna come close to satisfying 10,000 viewers. Those EC2 instances will serve up about 100 people each. 100 * 1mbit/s = 100mbits.

Justn.tv doesn't even have 10,000 viewers at 1 time throughout it's entire network, and it takes up half a data center.

Unfortunate? Absolutely. But catastrophic? Far from it.

yes, far from catastrophic! This can be fixed easily.


We're here to help Nathan. Give me a call.

Zach.

 

[Socopool79]

I'm in

Hey Nathan listen to this. Get everything organized and up and running and then really take this thing to the next level. Start promoting BB for leagues in the local pool rooms. Take a lot of work, but man if you could get that out there you would really have something. More fun with the shot clock, a controlled time limit for matches, probably an easier handicap system, and best of all going to Vegas to square off against the pros or play with them. Think about it. Ill be a league operator in my area. Count me in.

 

[watchez]

Above are two excerpts from Nathan's posts.

Now, regarding the disastrous live streaming attempts:
is this possible that this failure was truly caused by simply trying to experiment with their "... own PPV streaming platform that costs us pennies in bandwidth (rather than thousands per week)... " ???

It bothers me; some facts presented (claims) are just not straight...

I am not an expert in streaming but some of the posters clearly are...

Any opinions ???

Just to make matters clear:
I am a supporter of anything that would bring positives to our sport. No "hating" on my side.

This ^^^^^^^

 

[watchez]

Putting this project on a VPS (Virtual Private Server), and subbing out Amazon Instances w/ Wowza Media server is not even gonna come close to satisfying 10,000 viewers. Those EC2 instances will serve up about 100 people each. 100 * 1mbit/s = 100mbits.

Justn.tv doesn't even have 10,000 viewers at 1 time throughout it's entire network, and it takes up half data center

I will 'rocket bet' anyone that there were not 10,000 viewers. What that means is ill bet a $1 a viewer (or more) plus/minus 10,000. You have the plus. I have the minus.

 

[thewhiffer]

Nathan I am going to offer you the best advice you will get all day.

Just stop posting.

Fix your product. Let it speak for you.

All you are doing with these types of responses is pissing off people who feel like they wasted their time on giving something a chance. Telling them that "So what the stream sucked we are all still awesome." is very very insulting.

You botched the largest budget launch since the IPT. Stop blaming it on everything and everyone else and fix the problem. People will forgive and forget. They will not if you keep this up. The fact is I dont think you give a shit about anyone here because this market really makes no impact on if BB survives or not. Your posts in this thread only re-enforce that opinion.

End of the day your product and how you stand behind it speaks for you.

Nathan, I would give different advice than this. What you have attempted to do, mainly communicate, is important. We all know that shit happens but we want to be kept informed as best you can. We are all adult enough to separate hyperbole from fact. Adding the free streams was a great step in terms of PR. We all want to see what a PPV at its best is going to be like in order to make our buy decision. Parts of what we were able to see were very encouraging.

I, along with a small group of similar pool junkie friends, used to watch each TAR match like a religion. We would organize watching parties. Then there was a small, very small but annoying, problem and when we tried to get an answer the arrogance shown indicative of the comment/advice “Just stop posting. Fix your product. Let it speak for you” put an end to our TAR parties for awhile (until Mark Griffin showed that the customer actually is important).

The statement posted to the WPBL facebook under the signature of ‘The Entire WPBL Staff’ is helpful and greatly appreciated. Your postings here are also helpful. Hopefully, the match in progress will be available soon or the upcoming one at 7:00 p.m. will find the problem fixed. (let us know so we can hang in there waiting or do something else) Communication with the customer/fan is very important and I thank you for it and encourage the WPBL to keep it up through all avenues available to them.

 

[Shermanscs]

I like you Nathan, always have.

I very much appreciate your efforts and wish you and BB a lot of success.

The way I am reading your statement, however, comes across as condescending and disingenuous.

There are definitely haters here on az, that's for sure. I am not one of them.

Please read and take to heart some of the comments regarding not just the poor quality of the stream, which btw, for some strange reason you claim that beyond your team's huge setup was "not your concern", but also some of the fair criticisms that may help you to fine tune the BB format.

And if the boatload of problems encountered on the stream for two nights really was the fault of a dedicated outside company that I assume got paid to do better, then rain pure hell on them on behalf of your team and, yes, even us potential BB customers who slogged through two nights of unacceptable broadcasting..

Please be candid, was the real reason for the stream being in such disarray because it couldn't handle the large amount of traffic?

My sincere advice to you would be to recognize that there are some here on az who are really pulling for you and BB so please don't leave us feeling like we can shove ice-picks into our collective temples.

best,
brian kc

Well said Brian.

- steve

 

[jimmyg]

It's not negativity, it's reason.

Any scientist, mathematician, critical analyzer, and every rational person, knows that to accurately test a given theory, one has to try and "punch holes" in it's basic premises, so one must intentionally look at all the possible places where it may be fallible and use them to attempt to prove it untenable. If the theory survives all those attempts, then and only then can it be considered tenable.

Many of the actions and statements coming from BB sources are so questionable that they beg honest questioning. BB should be thankful and use the information, as is intended, to it's advantage.

Calling the questioning "negativity", the people doing the questioning "haters', and pretending that everything is wonderful is just about the most "negative", and counterproductive, thing anyone can do.

J

 

[Chicken_Blood]

I've been too busy with damage control to check the forums this weekend, but I'm assuming things here are pretty bitter and negative. I just wanted to quickly make a statement or two.

For one, I run the production company. I'm not a network guy, nor is that my job, nor is it that of anyone else on my crew. Those services are offered by a dedicated company. My crew runs a massive production setup here, and push a stream to the servers. What happens past that point is not my concern (although Im totally to blame for the missing audio on the first 10 minutes on day 1 however.

Both the website hosting and video delivery network crashed under the high traffic. They said it wouldn't but clearly it did. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Although today the host switched us over to a tier 3 VPS and promised it would handle the load (plus I personally added some additional horsepower to the server in hopes of saving the day), it still got crushed within minutes. We ended up just streaming a low quality feed to ustream at the lowest bitrate possible, which clearly sucked ass.

Unfortunate? Absolutely. But catastrophic? Far from it.

What really mattered is what happened here at the venue. The game is amazing, the production was awesome, and the venue looks incredible. Best of all, the players are more into this than anything ive ever seen. The investors are pumped, the network people that came through are all over it, and the casino reps have schedule further meetings.

At the end of the day, a stream is just a stream. It’s unfortunate that viewers were disappointed and unable to watch anything short of mediocrity, but in the big picture, the core of what we aimed for was a success.

We have the matches in 1080p, recorded in flawless quality, and will be releasing them soon. All other matches this week will be recorded, but not streamed (until the network people solve the problem). Week 2 will be free to everyone (assuming we get the system fixed in time), and anyone who purchased will get their subscription extended 2 additional weeks.

For those of you who want to remain negative, feel free. It doesn't bother us one bit, nor do we blame you. You only see what goes online, and that has obviously been a disaster. And for those who enjoyed what little they saw of the game, then thanks for standing by us, and get ready for an incredible season.

A shit stream or not, Bonus Ball is here to stay.

PS. Read more about it here. http://www.wpbltv.com/news/wpbl-debut-match/14

Your customers ultimatly decide whether or not Bonus Ball is here to stay. I would highly recommend that you drop the defensive attitude. An apology and the stated intent to make things better next time will get you further than blaming the debacle of the last two nights on anyone but the production company. Bonus Ball will never be my favorite game but I do appreciate anything positive happening in the pool world. I applaude the attempt, it must be ridiculously complex. I for one am willing to give you a second chance. Peace.

 

[Put_upor_shutup]

My opinion..(That may not mean much)..



If you are gonna take a stand as the "Public Relations Guy" just make your statement and move on.Getting in a pissing contest with other members will do nothing but further remove the consumers interest in your product.Customer service is key.Just make your apology brief and to the point in regards to what the issue is at hand.No comments outside of that.I know things are frustrating when they don't pan out how one would expect but button pushing gets us nowhere.And I'm not talking shit just stating as a fan what I would like to see from a company.Again I hope it all works cause we all have friends that play.Good luck..