Thanks to the Bonus Ball Crew...

Question?

Mark Griffin said:
But they still have not addressed the problem that BB has put the players 'in the middle' and they are liable to get 'caught' short.

Why do the players have to choose events?

All could have been avoided with a little bit of planning from the BB people.

Mark Griffin
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.....I know you've been promoting events since,-----well, let's say along time. Your heart is linked inextricably to the various business aspects of pool, too. Not to mention your a player and a big fan as well, so------riddle me this; does it really matter that 36 of the best players don't show for any event? It could be said, "well Van Boening won over Alex, but it was a watered down field!" Supposing of course Alex and Shane could be the top 2 finishers. That assumption aside for the moment, shouldn't "ALL" of us involved in the sport promote from the stand point that, "regional shortstops will have a better chance of placing in the top 20," at say, the upcoming Ultimate 10-ball. We all know the winner will be some one like Shane or Alex or the host of Pinoy players who aren't playing Bonus Ball. It could be argued since the same couple of players will win anyway, most folks won't know or care the "36" didn't show, anyhow! So here's the larger question, is it really a negative for an event to have a watered down field, providing the promoter can still fill the field? Unknown players will have a better potential to finish very high in a major event! Is that not a possible "Silver Lining in all of this?"
 
Zbotiman,

Actually you are reasonably accurate - as I read the potential outcomes of all this.

One of the problems you have is that the 'short stops' won't know what the field is like - until very late in the registration and travel window. Means the costs go up.

The short term is that the fields might be weaker. The crowds might be smaller etc.
When that happens, the event now starts becoming a bigger headache and a bigger expense. Which means we start looking for alternatives formats etc.

Remember, we are an amateur organization. I do these pro events because I think it shows the amateurs how the game can be played. In additiition, I have tried to get the players and the amateurs to 'connect' - although I have not been successful at that.

These things I have added - supposedly for the benefit of the pro players. This year the added money was $60,000.

I can have better use of that money. There are several things I might do - depending on how much (or how little) support the pro players give us this year.

Several years ago I almost did an invitational pro event using 2 tables. I might do that and invite 12-16 players. Now all the other players will lose the opportunity to even play in a $25,000 event. Is that the answer eveyone wants?

Where do the pros go now? Maybe they will go play in $7,000 added ABP events. Now that IS a bad model. At least with our added money it is worthwhile to some.

I would probably get more satisfied amateurs with a small 'friendly' group of pros than with a larger field. And I get to save about $10,000 in moving tables across the country. (There are $1,000s of issues and expenses putting on events that most people don't even think of).

I know there is some talk about 'banning' some players from future events. I don't want to do that, but shrinking the field by 80% has the same result. I know 'times are a changing' - but the manner this happened is not right.

When the sh*t hits the fan - don't blame the promoters. We have gambled and made large committments based upon the player being in events. (I was Jay's partner back in early 1990's when Mackay got the players to hold an event in the same town as us one week earlier.) How did that work out for the players and the game?

If the players don't want to play - that is fine - but as mentioned before, the players 'might' be gambling more than they realize.

I am for what is good for pool. I will not accept abuse or disrespect from the player's that I have tried to accomodate by presenting the opportunity for them to excel. I am getting too old to 'shovel sh*t against the tide'.

The ball is in the player's court. I will adjust to how they perform. After all, I am trying to work in a 'win-win' atmosphere. This is not supposed to be 'us against them'.

I also will chat with anyone that wants to have an intelligent conversation on these issues. All you have to do is identify yourself and be respectful. We can disagree and still show respect.

Yours for better billiards.

Respectfully,

Mark Griffin

(PS By the way Nathan, I wrote Larry - and called him. No respeonse yet:eek:)
 
Mark Griffin said:
I also will chat with anyone that wants to have an intelligent conversation on these issues. All you have to do is identify yourself and be respectful. We can disagree and still show respect.

Yours for better billiards.

Respectfully,

Mark Griffin

(PS By the way Nathan, I wrote Larry - and called him. No respeonse yet:eek:)
Click to expand...

Mark,
It's Billy Gibbs, I certainly didn't intend or want you to even sense any form of disrespect! I merely wondered why this conflict and annoyance with BB wasn't "promoted" as an opportunity for weaker players to score a good finish in a Major Event?
Crazy as it sounds, my little world is even impacted by this, too! It's not desired from my employer that I raise even a wiff of this controversy beyond these forums. With that said, my usual anonymity is my pseudonym.
If you'd like, perhaps we might continue this in Tunica, maybe even on the air if that would suit you???
Anyway,
All my best with the upcoming event!
Through it all, I'm certain your stuff will be a success!:smilewinkgrin:
 
Please read post #23.

I believe it is an accurate description of the situation.

No hate from anyone - just trying to point out both sides of the coin.

We need what is best for pool.

Mark Griffin
 
kittykat said:
Come on Mark!Your not concerned about pro players. Your concerned about Mark Griffen's free professional show. You are not concened about the pro player. Give us a break. Bonus Ball league format has you shaken in your boots and the fact that they are paying players makes you cringe!
Click to expand...

Well if he was shaking in his boots before he must be waltzing in his Florsheim's now
Now to the topic this is a forum and like any forum the tend to be brutally honest if Nathan can't handle the truth I would suggest he not peak in
I read some of the other posts that were highly positive to the point where I was wondering if they if they even watched or if they were being paid for their response

The truth may hurt but if used in a positive manner it can be very useful if I were Nathan I would be listening and taking notes and not jumping on here talking about how great it was because it simply wasn't


1
 
golubushka said:
Since they now will have 2 alternates on every team, couldn't this be used to help alleviate this situation???

Of course, this assumes that the BB players will be playing in other events under their agreement with the BB league...sorry, I'm behind the curve on this stuff, but is this how that will work as far as you know????
Click to expand...
If I may give you my opinion on what I see as far as the alternates. If you look at this clearly and set aside any on the infighting.

Lets just day I am Ralph Souquet and I decide I want to play in the US Open 10-ball, or 8-Ball. I need to get my alternate in to take my place and my paycheck for that week/weekend. So I call my Alternate (This is bases on the fact that the Alternate is not living in Vegas which is true I think for the most part) The conversation COULD go like this.

RS: Hey Alt, I want to play in the US Open 10-Ball and 8-Ball in July. Can you take my spot at BB?

ALT: How much do I get?

RS: $1,000.

ALT: Do you pay my expenses too?

RS: NO.

ALT: Ok, well its gonna cost me about $400 plane ticket and then $80 per night for 4 days thats $720 before I eat a meal out there. So I will be making $280 for the weekend??

RS: Yeah,

ALT: Well I think if I am gonna go to Vegas and if the field is gonna be watered down in the U.S Open 10-Ball I may have more chance of making money in that especially since you and some of the others top pros are not playing. So Sorry I won't be able to help you this time.

Ao all I am saying is I don't think it is going to be that easy to get these "Alternates" in and taking the top pros place as some may think it is. However depending on the situation and if the pros are willing to pay the Alt's expenses it may become more appealing and if the Alt actually is living in Vegas or within a shortt drive it may be appealing. I always look for the problems first before I get carried away with how easy something is going to be so this is not a negative just to BB buit the same way I look at just about everything. Hopefully I get surprised whrn things actually work out better. :)
 
Mark, that's @ as good a speculative way an alternate conversation would probably go down, assuming the WPBL hasn't set aside some funds for this - which sounds unlikely.
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Mark, that's @ as good a speculative way an alternate conversation would probably go down, assuming the WPBL hasn't set aside some funds for this - which sounds unlikely.
Click to expand...
I could not make a bet on if they had travel$$ set aside for alternates, they may have. However my gut tells me there isn't. If its is worth it to any particular player to pay the Alt expenses then all will be happy. Or if lets say I come up with a MEGA deal for a player to play for a weekend and they get $10K guarenteed then I am sure it would be fixable.

Again, its just a more negative outlook on thoutcome but not really unrealistic.

The positive side of a chat would go ;like this.

RS: Can you fill in for me??

ALT: Sure, I just want a chance to be involved. Even if I just break even I will get experience and get closer to the project.

Just to be fair and balanced as I hear :)
 
Actually I have to agree.

The Renfro said:
I am embarrassed to admit in the throws of the streaming train wreck I posted a few posts like everyone else... They were attempts at humor but it was at Nathan and crews expense.. For that I apologize.. I would also like to, in the light of day, say thank you to those very people for trying... Success and failure of the concept will be based upon the long term and not the first weekend...

Until there is more exposure and the kinks are worked out it will be hard to say what I think of the new game. I had a very difficult time following it but if the stream quality was better I am thinking that the commentary would have gone a long way to opening up my understanding....

I liked the score graphics changing to indicate the ball each team was required to shoot and that the BBall emblem at the back of the arena changed color as well....

I didn't really care for the black and white jerseys and would love to see the jerseys in actual team colors instead of the away team wearing white like the NHL... There is no passing of the ball so teammate confusion is not an issue.... The team logos are great and would look great in HD if they were on vibrant colored jerseys... Rigging Full Color LEDs inside of the pockets would allow the pockets to glow with respective team colors and the painting of the pockets wouldn't be required..

The girls are fine but during the match having them out there is odd. Wiping the table down is a nice touch as Lee racks but I would having them holding mechanical bridges during the matches so they kind of have a purpose other than catching the eyes of the viewers...

Camera 1 was static Friday so Lee was cut off at the waist when he was explaining things. I am betting it will be manned as soon as the kinks are worked out.. If that's not the plan consider it please, anytime someone is talking it's nice to see their face.. Commentators of course excluded LOL...

I know there are tons of bells and whistles that Nathan intends to bring in so a few weeks from now the show won't even resemble what was on tap this weekend... Going forward until BBall reaches the point at which Nathan says we are 100% I intend to keep my big yap shut. Everyone has to learn to crawl before they walk.....

Good Luck Guys,

Chris
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I understand having the whole jersey match the pockets, but the pocket colors appear to be just snap on inserts that should be easily changeable from day to day when alternate teams matchup. I think it would be much better for each team to have their own colors and their own color jersey. I think then it would be much easier for watchers to follow who has what pocket. I think the blandness of black and white kind of take away from that.

Jaden
 
Surely some of this is being done with contracts.
This isn't picking up some guys in the lowe's parking lot to get paid work by the day.

I mean, if a basketball player turns his ankle, the bencher can't say "I can't sub in coach,
I got other stuff going on right now." ...I'd assume the alternate HAS to play if called up.
If someone can't cover, the match cannot happen. It throws a wrench in the whole schedule,
pisses off fans who bought the stream, and wastes the time of all the staff who showed up that day.

For that matter, the contract should probably stipulate that ralf can't blow it off to go play in another event,
or he's fired. Maybe that's how it's set up already, I dunno.
 
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