Draw helps pocket!
- Thread starter benturner
- Start date
Who's telling you that?
I'm no instructor, but I see no validity in that. Top is more accurate, as the cue ball is rolling, instead of skidding. A cueball skidding is less predictable. As far as the object ball...if it isn't smashed into the pocket, I can't see it mattering what you put on the cueball...since in most cases, the object ball will begin to roll by the time it gets to the pocket...
I'd say put this into the category of mis-information.
I'm no instructor, but I see no validity in that. Top is more accurate, as the cue ball is rolling, instead of skidding. A cueball skidding is less predictable. As far as the object ball...if it isn't smashed into the pocket, I can't see it mattering what you put on the cueball...since in most cases, the object ball will begin to roll by the time it gets to the pocket...
I'd say put this into the category of mis-information.
It depends on the shot, how much draw, and how much speed. Hitting a hair low generally tends to have less curve, so it is usually more accurate. Hitting with a lot of draw, usually increases the speed of the shot and causes the object ball to "climb" up the wall of some pockets and rattle out, both of which make the shot more difficult.
When hitting top you are shooting down into the ball in the slightest margin. So the cueball really doesn't have total contact with the slate in a shot with any speed. The accuracy is off as the cue traps the ball to the slate.
On the other hand draw pushes the cueball along the slate...less chance of of the cueball rolling off.
If you avoid CB skidding upon contact with OB, draw does help (eg in shots parallel to the long cushion) since it transfers a rolling action to the OB, similar effect as with side english transfer between CB and OB.
That changes (widens) the angle the OB bounces off the rail in case it has any contact with it before reaching a corner pocket and helps the OB to fall into it easier.
That changes (widens) the angle the OB bounces off the rail in case it has any contact with it before reaching a corner pocket and helps the OB to fall into it easier.
Last edited:
I have always heard that draw on the cue ball imparts follow on the object ball, which seems to help it tumble in. I am sure that the speed the shot is hit has a lot to do with it.
When you can make everything you can see with no spin at all, then we will talk about spin. Until then, adding variables to a shot is just chasing rabbits. You will not improve your shot making ability.
Ain't that the truth. :thumbup:
bankoutallday
Banned
Here's why
The draw on the CB puts top on the OB. When the top on the object ball hits the pocket facing it helps stun the ball so it goes across the pocket and down into the hole. The running English can help keep the OB rolling straight in too. You still have to make the ball of course.
The draw on the CB puts top on the OB. When the top on the object ball hits the pocket facing it helps stun the ball so it goes across the pocket and down into the hole. The running English can help keep the OB rolling straight in too. You still have to make the ball of course.
I am the opposite.
I find putting draw on the cue ball, tends to "tighten" up the pocket with the object ball.
When I am playing good it has less difference, but I am playing less now and need to shoot with "pocket" speed to give it as much chance to go in as possible.
Ken
I find putting draw on the cue ball, tends to "tighten" up the pocket with the object ball.
When I am playing good it has less difference, but I am playing less now and need to shoot with "pocket" speed to give it as much chance to go in as possible.
Ken
I call BS. I like JJ (and his commentating style) but the whole stroke thing makes me laugh. The object ball doesn't know "stroke" It get hit with a curtain force and specific vector and the physics take over. Assuming you don't hit warp speed and and the object ball has the time (actually distance) to overcome the spin you transferred to the ball, it will start rolling forward at it's described tangent. Period full stop.
Now what you do to the cue ball to maintain it's tangent or to generate desired shape is a different matter. Just like when you hit a drag draw shot the cue ball initially spins backwards and then the frictional forces take over and your rock starts to roll forward.
Yes spin transfer is a proven phenomenon but alas the amount is small unless your taking about short distance with higher pace.
Nick
Now what you do to the cue ball to maintain it's tangent or to generate desired shape is a different matter. Just like when you hit a drag draw shot the cue ball initially spins backwards and then the frictional forces take over and your rock starts to roll forward.
Yes spin transfer is a proven phenomenon but alas the amount is small unless your taking about short distance with higher pace.
Nick
Last edited:
I also heard Jeremy jones talking about hitting low to make a shot easier.
However, unless he said it more than once he was talking about banking.
He stated that a particular bank was much harder because he had to use top. He also said that good bankers all prefer to hit shots low with a punch stroke. He was also just talking about near full ball hits as well. (Maybe full ball to half ball)
I asked a couple strong players to explain this theory to me. I kind of got some of the reasons, but it still didn't seem like something that would make a big difference.
However, unless he said it more than once he was talking about banking.
He stated that a particular bank was much harder because he had to use top. He also said that good bankers all prefer to hit shots low with a punch stroke. He was also just talking about near full ball hits as well. (Maybe full ball to half ball)
I asked a couple strong players to explain this theory to me. I kind of got some of the reasons, but it still didn't seem like something that would make a big difference.
I would think that you would want the object ball to have back spin instead of follow so that when the ball hits the back of the pocket you would want it to grab and spin downwards toward the bottom of the pocket. So follow on the cue ball puts back spin on the object ball.
Follow on the object ball would have the opposite effect.
I myself don't concern myself with things like this that are so minute in pocketing the ball.
jameswalden
New member
Balls are pocketed most reliably at center ball. You only want to spin the CB for position adjusting your aim to suite.
james, walden
james, walden
We have a winner!
Usually when you hit a shot with draw, you hit it a lot harder than with a plain roller in order to keep draw on the cue ball clear to the object ball. As others have pointed out, for most pockets harder shots cause the pocket to tighten up.
If the shot is fairly soft, the object ball will be rolling when it gets to the pocket anyway. That's the most follow you can get on an object ball, and it's a lot more than the very small amount of follow you will get due to draw at contact.
Without a lot more explanation and specific examples, the notion that "draw helps pocket" is mostly wrong.
If the shot is fairly soft, the object ball will be rolling when it gets to the pocket anyway. That's the most follow you can get on an object ball, and it's a lot more than the very small amount of follow you will get due to draw at contact.
Without a lot more explanation and specific examples, the notion that "draw helps pocket" is mostly wrong.
Does top spin on the CB actually put back spin on the OB? The OB would probably only skid for a short distance before it starts rolling.
I don't think there would be any reverse on the OB for more than an inch or so. The OB could skid all the way to the pocket if it was
hit with authority. Side spin is another story as the OB can retain a sideward roll. I think the object ball pockets best with gravity.
Last edited: