The REAL problem with pool
- Thread starter Jerry Forsyth
- Start date
This thread has been a great albeit somewhat depressing read. I'm shocked by the statistic above and have to doubt how accurate it is. Each of us is now 21/39ths as likely to meet another pool player now relative to 2005? Some geographic detail by this if available would be very good to know. If true, it is a truly staggering decline. The main contributor I have to think is the growth of the smartphone, and if true, that change in human activity is more depressing to me than the decline in number of pool players.
Room owners should look at it as an investment because during the days that are not free or evenings maybe the kids will come back in with parents. Once a month maybe have a youth tournament and giveaway stuff as prizes with a free a entry and make it fun for them. Other countries in Asia groom the youth into the sport but I see little being done in the US. If a junior program contacted all poolrooms and had a proposal for the rooms letting them know about doing something like this on a Saturday or Sunday during the day I could see it really catching on and growing the sport and bringing in new money for the future.
How right you are. No one ever did a better job making pool the cool thing to do than RJ Reynold's Joe Camel. He carried our water for years. Everyone talks about "The Color of Money" when actually it was Joe Camel who gave pool a trending image for years and years. Joe was the most recognizable pool player in history and he was a fictional comic character. Imagine that.
Attachments
not until we complete this upcoming Earl Strickland Documentary,
Yes, this show is very likely to happen, but not until we complete this upcoming Earl Strickland Documentary, I don't want to get "side tracked". I have a feeling this documentary is going to open the door to some really big things, a movie being one of them. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, this show is very likely to happen, but not until we complete this upcoming Earl Strickland Documentary, I don't want to get "side tracked". I have a feeling this documentary is going to open the door to some really big things, a movie being one of them. 'The Game is the Teacher'
You know, there's quite a few places to play pool in my town. None of them uses the tables as their primary source of profit. They are all bars, plus some of them offer food, TV, video games, betting machines, darts etc. Each one of them has music as well if I remember correctly. Still, all those things actually attract customers, which increases the number of pool players. I don't know how things work in the US, but here people will play more often if they can drink as well, and once they get bored with the game, there needs to be other stuff they can do. If they're happy, they'll come back.
Unique Ways of Adaptation
Jerry,
I haven't read all the posts but wanted to comment on yours. I created an advertisement magazine for allowing pool room owners to advertise their rooms and was at the juncture where I need photograph and you would think something like this would set people back and say..yeah let me help...oh no....the opposite.
Friend of mine in Greensboro NC has a room and he led the fight against the Smoking Ban and wrote 1500 letters to other bars and Room Owners......0 response.
We hypothesize what has killed pool......Alcohol.....it has set pool apart from an entire generation of players....children....first you have to be exposed to the game like many of us did....in Recreation Centers. The Rec Center is a place kids could go. Pool Rooms aren't when they serve alcohol.
Getting Rooms to do anything is a great idea for some creative, independently wealthy Room Owners but in my opinion bring back the Recreation Center....and you will see pool pick up...just give it about 30 yrs or more....
I believe that pool is going to skip a generation, because somehow I think we lost our direction. It wasn't video games. It was alcohol. If you cant have children involved, you have cut the grass roots of what we are supposed to be about and that is making new players.
Jerry,
I haven't read all the posts but wanted to comment on yours. I created an advertisement magazine for allowing pool room owners to advertise their rooms and was at the juncture where I need photograph and you would think something like this would set people back and say..yeah let me help...oh no....the opposite.
Friend of mine in Greensboro NC has a room and he led the fight against the Smoking Ban and wrote 1500 letters to other bars and Room Owners......0 response.
We hypothesize what has killed pool......Alcohol.....it has set pool apart from an entire generation of players....children....first you have to be exposed to the game like many of us did....in Recreation Centers. The Rec Center is a place kids could go. Pool Rooms aren't when they serve alcohol.
Getting Rooms to do anything is a great idea for some creative, independently wealthy Room Owners but in my opinion bring back the Recreation Center....and you will see pool pick up...just give it about 30 yrs or more....
I believe that pool is going to skip a generation, because somehow I think we lost our direction. It wasn't video games. It was alcohol. If you cant have children involved, you have cut the grass roots of what we are supposed to be about and that is making new players.
If they get bored with the game they are not pool players. They are just people shooting a few games of pool.
Robin,
If my Dad had not taken me to a bowling alley when I was 13 to introduce me to the game & then to a 'couples only' room where the owner allowed me & my Dad to play, I might never have become a player.
But...I will say this. It is not alcohol that is the problem but a society that thinks it must protect everyone in society with LAWS.
Back in the day a minor could be in a bar so long as he or she was with his or her parent. A minor could even be served alcohol if the parent authorized it.
Now some are saying that children do not belong to their parents & the parents can not raise their children how they choose. They're saying that children belong to society & society should decide every aspect of a child's life.
If that actually happens, you can bet that the children will not be playing pool. Society will not even let them keep score in any sport & they can't play dodge ball.
Someone once said, 'Let the children come unto me'. The children are now under attack from a different entity, so they can be brain washed & then 'enslaved'.
Sorry for the down side subject. I've not yet had my morning coffee.
I hope someone could do what you speak of but with all of the government regulation & law suits I doubt that it will EVER happen. We are living in an ever increasingly sad world.
Best Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
Coin Op Tables
JoeW,
Some nice observations, especially the coin op tables. I grew up playing in a Recreation Center in various places. The idea of someone stepping up and challenging the table worked well with kids and adults. I liked to play 8 ball. I was either very lucky or very good or both Ive played kids and college professors on tables that were coin operated. There was an element of .....Action....where or not there was gambling. I can remember times when I would partner with my best friend and we would keep a table all night long playing for 1 dollar per man partners 8 ball. People knew the games were going to be extremely competitive and we had people 20 or so standing around to watch just to see if someone could knock us off the table, which rarely happened. When it did we just went to another table and then the quarters just followed us over there and people lined up again. While a few kept the other table going.
I would think that this could be done on a non coin op table but the idea of paying time puts the table in someones name so there are logistics with money involved which takes away from the allure so the coin op table does provide a lot of entertainment no doubt.
JoeW,
Some nice observations, especially the coin op tables. I grew up playing in a Recreation Center in various places. The idea of someone stepping up and challenging the table worked well with kids and adults. I liked to play 8 ball. I was either very lucky or very good or both Ive played kids and college professors on tables that were coin operated. There was an element of .....Action....where or not there was gambling. I can remember times when I would partner with my best friend and we would keep a table all night long playing for 1 dollar per man partners 8 ball. People knew the games were going to be extremely competitive and we had people 20 or so standing around to watch just to see if someone could knock us off the table, which rarely happened. When it did we just went to another table and then the quarters just followed us over there and people lined up again. While a few kept the other table going.
I would think that this could be done on a non coin op table but the idea of paying time puts the table in someones name so there are logistics with money involved which takes away from the allure so the coin op table does provide a lot of entertainment no doubt.
Rick,
No apologies necessary. I don't completely agree with you, but I will agree on some of it and we can just agree to disagree on some of it, then after I get my coffee as well we might end up agreeing....
We do live in a sad time but we have to find joy some way. Pool is a great way to do it. There aren't many places that are going to keep kids out, but the kids keep themselves out due to the things around them.
It seems we are on a roller coaster with no brakes.
I think that finding the people that will benefit from the creation of new players is a start.
If we all love it that much, we need to all make it a point to recruit someone into the fold each year and make that a life long goal. Its not always easy to be the guy who can run out trying to bring along a new player, but we need to be.
I know some of the posters in this thread and how shall I say this? Ahh, they have lots of experience having been around pool for quite some time and have a lot of wisdom earned over those years.
I really would like to hear from the 17-35 year old crowd and ask them their opinions and would hope that those that are in that particular age bracket state that.
What does the 17-35 year old crowd think is the problem with pool?
I've heard an interesting comment from Jive about how some of the pool rooms aren't "cool" and I think he is probably more right than some of us. And that makes me wonder how does a pool room owner make his pool room more cool?
Thanks,
JoeyA
I really would like to hear from the 17-35 year old crowd and ask them their opinions and would hope that those that are in that particular age bracket state that.
What does the 17-35 year old crowd think is the problem with pool?
I've heard an interesting comment from Jive about how some of the pool rooms aren't "cool" and I think he is probably more right than some of us. And that makes me wonder how does a pool room owner make his pool room more cool?
Thanks,
JoeyA
Illinois is a no smoking state, so you are correct. I believe a majority of the states are, but not all just yet.
Robin,
I'm in the New Orleans area. I would not know where to take a young person under 18 to play pool other than someone's house. They can not be in any establishment that serves alcohol other than a restaurant that serves more gross dollar food than gross dollar alcohol. In those restaurants the video poker must be sectioned off so that no minor can even see a machine.
I'm in the City That Care Forgot. I can only imagine a Baptist Community (no offense meant, just trying to make a point).
My point is that there is no longer is a place for a parent to take a young person to introduce them to the game & no place for them to play the game. We will lose a generation on a grand scale. Or...they will not start until they can go into bars & see a coin table.
In hind sight coin tables in bars may be the salvation of the game. At least they will prevent a form of the game from going extinct once all of the pool halls have closed down.
I certainly hope that I am wrong & many restaurants start putting pool tables in, at least in the waiting area. But I doubt that it will happen given the dollar per square foot of retail space.
Pocket Billiards needs a Patron Saint on a National Scale. Maybe Warren Buffet's Heirs will open a national chain called 'The Color of Money'.:wink:
Best Regards & Wishes,
Rick
Millenials
JoeyA,
I had an pool room advertisement idea and of all people my father told me something one day that blew me away....he said..I think if you are to do anything for pool youre going to have to appeal to Millenials....the millienial generation.
Those people are 18 to 30...and you can read about them on the internet.
They are digital natives...love bingo..on ipads....craft beer...mostly liberal...religion isn't as important to them, neither is race, into instant gratification and really who isn't?
I see that there is a lot that Can Be done but from what Ive seen I haven't seen many room owners that want to do more than open the place up. If I had all the money they did in their businesses I would do something.
I had a vision once of pool rooms going back into the uptowns of all these small towns under the guise or umbrella of being centers for AT Risk children.
That would be a place where kids could go, find out about Community College Programs, study buy a coke and some candy, crackers etc and play pool. Recruiters would come in, literature for 2 yr degree programs would be there, literature for special trade schools etc.
This done in conjunction with a town council etc might work and have it run by retirees only.
I think we have to get kids involved at some point and there isn't anyone that can wave a wand and set up a thousand pool rooms but.....its an idea.
There are empty spaces in all of the up towns in South. Seems like it might be a good time to get a good rental agreement.
How could we talk town councils into doing something like this? as an extension of the Senior Citizens Centers? I like the idea....seniors....kids....no alcohol....low rent...
JoeyA,
I had an pool room advertisement idea and of all people my father told me something one day that blew me away....he said..I think if you are to do anything for pool youre going to have to appeal to Millenials....the millienial generation.
Those people are 18 to 30...and you can read about them on the internet.
They are digital natives...love bingo..on ipads....craft beer...mostly liberal...religion isn't as important to them, neither is race, into instant gratification and really who isn't?
I see that there is a lot that Can Be done but from what Ive seen I haven't seen many room owners that want to do more than open the place up. If I had all the money they did in their businesses I would do something.
I had a vision once of pool rooms going back into the uptowns of all these small towns under the guise or umbrella of being centers for AT Risk children.
That would be a place where kids could go, find out about Community College Programs, study buy a coke and some candy, crackers etc and play pool. Recruiters would come in, literature for 2 yr degree programs would be there, literature for special trade schools etc.
This done in conjunction with a town council etc might work and have it run by retirees only.
I think we have to get kids involved at some point and there isn't anyone that can wave a wand and set up a thousand pool rooms but.....its an idea.
There are empty spaces in all of the up towns in South. Seems like it might be a good time to get a good rental agreement.
How could we talk town councils into doing something like this? as an extension of the Senior Citizens Centers? I like the idea....seniors....kids....no alcohol....low rent...
Just some random observations I've made from playing in rooms all over the U.S. and Europe...
1. Location. Too many rooms are in rough areas...city zoning laws and lease prices have often kept "pool rooms" in high crime areas; the way around it is to set the place up as a "sports bar" or restaraunt, if you can get away with it. Some people go the private club route, but that's hit/miss. Set up a pool room in an area that guys would be comfortable taking their wives/girlfriends to...or places that the average clutch of 20 something girls would go to for a girls' night out. No women, and pretty soon just us old fat men are the only ones in the place.
2. Maintenance. Even casual players want to play on good equipment. Too many room owners get tired and slack off on this, either through a little burn out or to save money. Not good. That includes the most overlooked thing, the house cues. You want to cater to the beginner/casual player, that's where the growth/money is. All the guys playing with their own cues can't keep the mortgage paid or the lights on. That's also why most successful rooms are bars/restaraunts first and pool rooms second. Crappy house cues make for a crappy playing experience.
3. Leagues. I think they're critical to success in most places. It gets casual players in one or two nights per week, every week, and keeps the till running with drinks, food, etc. I've never seen a room fail that had leagues...sure some have failed, but I've not seen it.
4. Incentives. Tournaments, challenge tables, drink/food specials and monthly rates/club memberships are all great to amp things up. I don't think smoking bans or alcohol has hurt anything, as far as I can see. Still the same group around the smoking barrel that there were smoking at the tables. Still showing up to play. My underage (at the time) son was allowed to come in and play with me in virtually any room I played in, even though alcohol was served...depended on the state and local ordinances, but usually before happy hour there was never a problem. I like rec centers coming back as an idea, but they cost money, too and they've died for reasons other than just pool.
5. Public perception. We've got to get pool on TV again. Get the public excited about it, introducing the players/personalities, etc. I can't believe all the hillbilly shows on A/E and History Channel, yet no one thinks pool will work? It's a no brainer. Reality show and Social Media.
1. Location. Too many rooms are in rough areas...city zoning laws and lease prices have often kept "pool rooms" in high crime areas; the way around it is to set the place up as a "sports bar" or restaraunt, if you can get away with it. Some people go the private club route, but that's hit/miss. Set up a pool room in an area that guys would be comfortable taking their wives/girlfriends to...or places that the average clutch of 20 something girls would go to for a girls' night out. No women, and pretty soon just us old fat men are the only ones in the place.
2. Maintenance. Even casual players want to play on good equipment. Too many room owners get tired and slack off on this, either through a little burn out or to save money. Not good. That includes the most overlooked thing, the house cues. You want to cater to the beginner/casual player, that's where the growth/money is. All the guys playing with their own cues can't keep the mortgage paid or the lights on. That's also why most successful rooms are bars/restaraunts first and pool rooms second. Crappy house cues make for a crappy playing experience.
3. Leagues. I think they're critical to success in most places. It gets casual players in one or two nights per week, every week, and keeps the till running with drinks, food, etc. I've never seen a room fail that had leagues...sure some have failed, but I've not seen it.
4. Incentives. Tournaments, challenge tables, drink/food specials and monthly rates/club memberships are all great to amp things up. I don't think smoking bans or alcohol has hurt anything, as far as I can see. Still the same group around the smoking barrel that there were smoking at the tables. Still showing up to play. My underage (at the time) son was allowed to come in and play with me in virtually any room I played in, even though alcohol was served...depended on the state and local ordinances, but usually before happy hour there was never a problem. I like rec centers coming back as an idea, but they cost money, too and they've died for reasons other than just pool.
5. Public perception. We've got to get pool on TV again. Get the public excited about it, introducing the players/personalities, etc. I can't believe all the hillbilly shows on A/E and History Channel, yet no one thinks pool will work? It's a no brainer. Reality show and Social Media.
Joey,
The only thing that is 'cool' to a 20 year old that is 'cool' to a 55+ year old is an attractive woman.:wink:
That is, besides the actual game of pocket billiards.
Best Regards & Wishes,
Rick
I think the one problem with pool and a big one is no members. In order for bigger tournaments to survive need to have members paying dues. Even bad golf players pay memberships knowing they cant play in a pro tournament but they want to be part of keeping up a good golf course. I see documentaries on television costco, sams club, and NRA just to name a few. Before they sell anything they are taking in millions each month off members. I believe the first organization that can get 128 paid members to play in huge monthly tournaments will pull pool out of the mud. I love pool more than anyone just dont like the road it is going down.
............
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