was that TONY ZINZOLAS hand in my pocket?

[wawacue]

Geez, Tommy....I so hate to hear this. It takes some giant brass balls to pull some $hit moves like that. Hope everyone involved with outstanding monies/cues gets made whole, but it's not sounding very good.

Sean, yes he have some brass balls alright., only problem with this situation now is he just F*#K with the wrong person this time around. Many of you don't know who I am and the one that knows me knows this shit is not gonna end with just some talking it out. In times, Zinzola will realize what he did will have a real bad re-course to follow.

 

[Cory in DC]

I won't take a side in this whole thing because I don't really care one way or another. I had one or two dealings with Tony. In the first, I was the asshole. In the second, there was no asshole. He did right by me despite my douchey past (and present, lol) and for that, I have no ill will towards him personally. But I will say this...

AZ is (or at least used to be) a great place where people could come, learn about pool, learn about cues, and even connect with cuemakers and place orders, buy cues, etc.. As the site got older, it got bigger. As it got bigger, we saw countless new cuemakers emerge from just about every corner of every state. Each one developed their own little cult following of fans who bought up cues, raved about them, flipped them for a profit or traded them up, etc.. Every buyer was a prospector who wanted to get in early before prices went sky high. A lot of guys never bothered to look at the work to see if there was any merit behind their blind praise. You had a ton of guys claiming Kevin Varney and a number of others were the second coming of Christ so that they could create a demand (and a profit) for a cue they paid $200 for. "It hits a TON!" It would seem these days, making a decent playing cue ain't too hard. But still, a slew of AZ members touted the newest 'up and comer'. "The next Sugartree"; "The next Haley" etc.. All names given to guys who had building cues for a year or two but thanks to a Hightower lathe, some Prather parts, and a DVD or two, they became "cuemakers" and started taking orders... perhaps LOOOOOONG before they ever should have.

The result? The number of cuemakers on AZ probably quadrupled if not more over the last 10 years. All of a sudden, every other screen name ended in 'Cues' or 'CustomCues'. Everyone saw others having 'success' and everyone wanted in on the action. Everyone wanted to be the next Ron Haley. The next Randy Mobley. The PROBLEM is... a lot of these newer cuemakers couldn't keep up with the demand and the reputation. A lot of them had no idea that the Ron Haleys and the Randy Mobleys had a decade+ of trial and error/refine their techniques experience before most people had ever heard of them. They saw demand and they saw a market where people wanted to buy cheap and sing the praises to create a demand.

And before you know it... a 3 month wait became a 3 year wait for many of these newbies who seemed to be in WAY over their heads. Orders were late. WAY late. Shortcuts were taken. Customers were PISSED. And of course, threads were started. And it seems like a LOT of these cuemakers (whether it was Kevin Varney or Tony Zinzola or whomever) always had the same excuses:

1) I've been really ill
2) My shop flooded
3) I'm having family issues

These became the standard responses for anyone who was on the receiving end of angry emails and phone calls.

It seems like AZ and its members have created not just one but a number of monsters out of a field of newer 'cuemakers'. That's not to say that Tony holds no responsibility here. Clearly he does. Its just an interesting trend I've noticed over the years here. He's clearly capable of doing some great work. He's proven that already. He just doesn't seem capable of functioning in a non-profit, customer service oriented business. And this seems true for a lot of guys (maybe not the 'great work' part but still...), the cycle is repetitive.

Cuemaker comes out of nowhere ---> Cuemaker gets LOTS of orders ---> Cuemaker gets WAY behind on orders ---> Cuemakers uses any one or a combination of the same canned excuses ---> It gets posted in the forums ---> other cuemakers read, never learn, then... repeat same sob stories when it happens to them.

In this case, sucks that everyone who got screwed, well... got screwed. But given the size of this site, the nature of cue buyers and the seeming increase in cuemakers, don't expect it to go away any time soon.

- B <------- a realist.

Perfect diagnosis! I think the rules in the For Sale forum really contribute to this problem. I can say "monster cue" and "hits a ton" in every freakin post. But if I want to post, "why is this regular cue from a new maker priced over $550?" or "the inlays don't look right," I'm subject to being banned. It's a perfect echo chamber that can lure in the unwary buyer.

 

[Worminator]

Perfect diagnosis! I think the rules in the For Sale forum really contribute to this problem. I can say "monster cue" and "hits a ton" in every freakin post. But if I want to post, "why is this regular cue from a new maker priced over $550?" or "the inlays don't look right," I'm subject to being banned. It's a perfect echo chamber that can lure in the unwary buyer.

All the more reason to only buy from respected sources with positive feedback.

 

[Fatboy]

Who did you say the next Haley was?

Haleys son, who else???

 

[Jim Baxter]

I don't think Tommy is anyone to F--k with , go gettem . Jim

 

[Fatboy]

Sean, yes he have some brass balls alright., only problem with this situation now is he just F*#K with the wrong person this time around. Many of you don't know who I am and the one that knows me knows this shit is not gonna end with just some talking it out. In times, Zinzola will realize what he did will have a real bad re-course to follow.

yup some of us came didnt grow up at the country club and have other ways of makings things right. i happen to be one of them.

 

[Big-Tattoo]

this liar gave me one time a fake tracking number too
and yes many replies about family issues, flooded shop ect...... LIAR
Ralf

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Post titles you won't see on AZB

Here are some post titles I'd challenge you to find:

"Bad deal with Keith Josey"
"Screwed by Dan Janes/Joss Cues"
"Horrible dealings with Jerry Pechauer"
"Hosed by those Jacobys...."
"Taken by Laurie at Southwest Cues"
"Jerry McWorter is a lying douchebag"
"Avoid Steve Klein cues"

Chances are, if you've heard ONE bad story about a cuemaker, there's 100 others just sitting in the bush. There are plenty of fantastic cuemakers out there. Unfortunately, there are also 10 times as many doucherags that know HOW to make a cue....but they DON'T know one thing about customer service, and totally lack any empathy.

I can tell you some stories about a lot of cuemakers, having bought a ton of cues on eBay when they were starting out. I bought one of Steve Klein's first cues many moons ago on eBay, just on a lark, as it looked to be a good cue. I then bought another. And another. I knew he was going to be great just from his service, timelines, and his quality of work. And I was right. I took a shot on Keith Josey back in 2000. Money WELL spent, but it wasn't just the cue. It was that he NEVER missed a timeline, and he communicated. He didn't respond...he INITIATED. "Hey Shawn, the clearcoat is going on the cue, and it should be ready to ship in about 10-14 days. Sherri will email you when I've finished the cue". Guess what. She emailed me 11 days later, asking how I wanted the cue to ship.

Reputations take years to build, and days to destroy. I wouldn't throw one nickel at a cuemaker unless people are singing his/her praises in unison. Buyers beware.

 

[blucollar]

I really hope he isn't sending people fake tracking numbers....that is just pure ignorance. Are u guys sure of this. Also, to Tommy, how do u plan to resolve your issue with Tony? Even though he is late on orders I can't imagine sendind a fake tracking #. U guys have me worried about me getting my cue now and I really need it.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

this liar gave me one time a fake tracking number too
and yes many replies about family issues, flooded shop ect...... LIAR
Ralf

Guys....if he gave you a fake USPS tracking number....that constitutes mail fraud. If it's an international shipment, that's actually an offense punishable by jail time.

David Huff screwed a few people years ago on eBay. The reason he's sitting in jail right now is a result of him providing false shipping information from USPS to international buyers. I was one of them. The other was a Canadian RCMP officer. If you want to "go get him", get USPS on his ass. They have a legal team that NONE of us can afford. They're the freakin' government.....

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Guys....if he gave you a fake USPS tracking number....that constitutes mail fraud. If it's an international shipment, that's actually an offense punishable by jail time.

But the long and the short of it unless, you are well connected, or one of hundreds of people cheated by the same person. The US Postal Inspector & U.S. Attorney are too busy with big fish to deal with one little fish.

It is all about number of crimes, and resources(money & budget) to catch criminals, an try, and put them behind bars. Trail cost mucho bucks, and smart criminal want trails, or sort plea bargain sentences.

 

[Fatboy]

Guys....if he gave you a fake USPS tracking number....that constitutes mail fraud. If it's an international shipment, that's actually an offense punishable by jail time.

....

who exactly is going to pick this matter up and actually make a case out of it? Also crossing state lines makes it a Federal crime(much less complicated than international beef's are).

additionally representing you mailed something isnt a crime, the Post Office would even bother with, there might be criminal intent , but thats now a local beef.

I know a bit about the postal laws......

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Thats what I was wondering Eric. I know little of Fed Canadian laws and nothing of US Law but it does seem that the US Post Office takes this sort of thing more serious than Canadian.

With all the intentional fraud being perpetuated by Tony, isn't there something that can be done?

I guess that even if there were a legal judgment made against him, you can't get blood from a stone.

Threads like this are the buyers only recourse in the long run. Cut him off at the knees and make sure that at the very least, he will have less people to defraud in the future.

Then he can get back into Fun Cue Making later.

 

[tikkler]

Hey

yup some of us came didnt grow up at the country club and have other ways of makings things right. i happen to be one of them.

Eric, when I was a kid I worked at that country club as a night watchman......I would hate to have duplicate things going on with Zinzola....lets stay coordinated.

Take care my friend,
Steve




.

 

[KRJ]

II'm not Sure how Custom cue Warranties are handled,,, but I do know whenever you buy something Custom online there is No Refund,,, it says it on most Sites and ill say it again I'm not sure how it is with custom cues tho

No refund on custom products, but NOT defective custom products. Two very different animals.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I bought what I thought was a spectacular looking (based on a couple of misleading pictures - see top one) Zinzola a year or two ago that I was astonished had ever left his shop, or garage, or wherever he made it. The lizard wrap was gouged and the rings were atrocious - mis-shaped, crooked, and some touching the others (not part of the design).

Upon receiving this cue, and once I could wrap my head around its condition, somewhat, I called Tony to ask him wtf was he thinking. His response was that he must have been distracted by his kids and some other bs about in-laws living there etc., etc., etc.

He, I, and all of you know there is no excuse for what he did in my situation, as well as tikkler's, and I know there have been others, too.

I started getting the runaround about how he has money on the way in and that I'd be paid in full in two weeks. Mind you, I had just paid him close to two grand, why not just refund it. I returned the cue to him, he missed the promised 'refund in two weeks'.

I got very strong with him over this (had to) and he came across with my refund in full, all within that following week.

I would not have discussed this publicly as I believe in giving the benefit of doubt, however, I have seen other reports and now this new one from tikkler so, obviously, Tony has not changed.

He actually came across to me as a nice guy, maybe just overwhelmed, but apparently, there's more to it.

It also seems a real shame because I feel he had a genuine flare for coming up with some impressive and beautiful designs.

best,
brian kc

Brian

Did you buy this piece directly from Tony?

Kevin

 

[Barry Banks]

This is a very interesting thread and it brings back many painful memories. i have owned four zinzolas. i bought 3 second hand and had one custom made. without getting too involved, and believe me i can write volumes, i can say that dealing with tony has become more and more difficult.

the cue i had custom made was supposed to take a year to complete. it took 18 months. the first time he promised me it was 3 days away from being shipped was only 13 months into it. i cannot tell you how many promises were made and broken in the ensuing 5 months and the crazy stories that went with them. when i told any of my friends what was going on all they could do was laugh and make me feel like an idiot for believing anything tony said. after finally getting the cue, there was a noticable smudge and imperfection on one of the inlays. i could not believe that he sent it to me that way. espescially after taking all of the extra time to get it "perfect".

one of the cues i bought second hand had warped shafts. tony was surprisingly nice and offered to give me two new shafts, free of charge. i also asked him to change the wrap. it took 6 months to get that cue back. in the interim, i almost went to the police to report the cue and my money stolen as it continued to not show up after he swore he shipped the cues. when i finally got the cue back, the shafts were great, but the wrap that i paid for was in terrible shape and i had to get it re-wrapped locally and spend more money. i wrote tony back asking for a refund, but got no response. at this point i don't even care. i am just relieved that i no longer have any reason to deal with him. thankfully, the cue looks awesome with the new wrap and this is the only one i am keeping.

i am not trying to bash tony here. i think he used to do incredible work, but he does not seem very happy with cue making and so he has become sour not only on the work, but in how he deals with customers. it is almost impossible to get him on the phone and he rarely responds to emails. it is very frustrating to know that you can own such beautiful cues but their value is in question due to the reputation he has ruined. at this point, i feel it is irreparable. my buddy who owns a pool room looks at the cue i own now and says "wow. that is beautiful. what great veneers. too bad it's a zinzola."

 

[rheester]

take a deep breath

to all those that were personally screwed by tony, i feel bad for you. i have and continue to have my situation w/ tony, but i'll just keep that to myself and him.

but for all those that don't have any personal/financial dealings w/ tony, take a deep breath.

ok, if tommy wants to take care of business, then let him, but comments like "go gettem" is simply juvenile.

i feel like this thread has gotten out of hand and is heading in the wrong direction, almost the mob mentality.

the point by tikkler was to, once again, remind people of his interactions w/ tony. and that's fine. and those who also got screwed chimed in. and that's fine too. but once the point has been made, lets just leave it there.

yes, we all have our opinions and they have been clearly stated and essentially all of AZ knows. so trying to puff up your chest and suggest doing something isn't helpful.

if you have personal issues w/ tony and you want to go legal or whatever, then do it. don't post it on here and have all the railbirds chime in on how to do it.

walk softly but carry a big stick.

and in regards to the flooding of the basement, i was there. that wasn't a lie. i helped him pump out all the water. and just because u pump out the water, doesn't mean that you can just turn on the lathe and start working again. as those that work w/ wood know, humidity becomes and issue.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Oh. My. God.

Here my dealing with T.Z. is not a pleasant one at all, I will try to make this short. I order my cue back in March 2011 after the SBE show. before I actually put the order in with T.Z I called another well respected cue maker on the Northeast and he assured me Tony is a good guy and shouldn't have any poblem at all so I decided to give Zinzola a try. on May 16 of 2011 took a drive up to Zinzola shop to meet him to go over the design of my cue. T.Z. quoted the cue to be $3K with delivery date os SBE 2012 and send me an invoice on May 19, 2011 through paypal requesting 25% deposit along with the invoice he left a message stating if I can send him 50% deposit he will discount the cue by 10% which that what I did by sending him 50%
( $1350.00 ) deposit. between the time of my first cue order I have been back to his shop/house a few times and order another cue with him which we didn't settle on the price yet for the 2nd cue.
On May 15, 2012 the well respected northeast cue maker calls me to warn me not to give Zinzola anymore money, few days later Tony Z calls me to ask for a favor telling me how he and Steve * Tikkler * have some problem and see if I can help him out with the financial issues, I ask him how much he needs and his reply was $4000.00 suppose to paid Tikkler back and implied that would cover both of my cue order. keep in mind that I already had a pre-warning from another maker not to give him any more money but I try to be nice about it and agreed to pay for my first cue in full to help him out. Zinzola send another paypal invoice on May 21, 2012 which I send him the money to paid Tikkler back, 2 weeks later I find out he didn't pay Tikkler but took the money to go on vacation with his family. another member here * Jive * is my dear friend have an order with Zinzola but Tony keep giving us all the run arounds, by end of 2012 Jive decided to cancel his order and ask for his deposit back and told Zinzola to send me the deposit, sometime around Jan 14-25 Tony send a check in the amount of $700.00 using his WIFE bank check, at first I didn't think anything wrong with it and deposit the check to find out it will bounced, Zinzola calls me on Feb 1, 2013 in the evening when I was in Arizona with 2 well respected cue maker sitting right next to me to find out it was a fake check, he gave me some B.S story about his wife used the money etc...... told him he needs to make it right and few days pasted he did deposit $730.00 after a long conversation.
Sometime around end of March, 2013 I demand an answer from Tony about my order which he ask for 3 week extension, I told him we will talk 3 weeks later and than 1 extension after another with different B.S. excuses., On May 2013 he told me the cue is done and I ask for a tracking number, this MOFO SCUMBAG went into USPS to grab a fake tracking number to send me which the package was never send out, towards the end of May 2013 I demand prove of pic's the cue is being done, Zinzola took 1 side of the buttsleeve picture to send to me as a prove by misleading me and waited couple more weeks with same B.S. excuses again, finally I had enough of his deceiving excuses one morning when directly to the airport and brought a ticket to Boston, call him 20min before arriving his house he still keeps on lying about the cue is done and ask me if I can come back the next day instead which I refused and told him I am leaving on the same day flight back to NY that when the truth came out the cue is no where near 50% done, show up at his house while his kids and wife at home, I still give his family some respect by not turning on him, went down to his shop to show me the disappointed cue as he made promise he would finish the cue and deliver by July 15, 2013 until today still nothing. As much as he claims he runs an real estate business buying and selling resturants, is all full of shit, this MOFO wants to take people money and thinks is okay because he thinks we cue buyer or collector owe it to him.
Now, I know some of you gonna try to defend this scumbag by saying there always 2 or 3 side to the story, which I don't give a F*#K about, this is my side of the story, I have all the paypal prove and all the text message prove along with the fake tracking number and misleading pic's.

You must be kidding........

 

[Koop]

Here my dealing with T.Z. is not a pleasant one at all, I will try to make this short. I order my cue back in March 2011 after the SBE show. before I actually put the order in with T.Z I called another well respected cue maker on the Northeast and he assured me Tony is a good guy and shouldn't have any poblem at all so I decided to give Zinzola a try. on May 16 of 2011 took a drive up to Zinzola shop to meet him to go over the design of my cue. T.Z. quoted the cue to be $3K with delivery date os SBE 2012 and send me an invoice on May 19, 2011 through paypal requesting 25% deposit along with the invoice he left a message stating if I can send him 50% deposit he will discount the cue by 10% which that what I did by sending him 50%
( $1350.00 ) deposit. between the time of my first cue order I have been back to his shop/house a few times and order another cue with him which we didn't settle on the price yet for the 2nd cue.
On May 15, 2012 the well respected northeast cue maker calls me to warn me not to give Zinzola anymore money, few days later Tony Z calls me to ask for a favor telling me how he and Steve * Tikkler * have some problem and see if I can help him out with the financial issues, I ask him how much he needs and his reply was $4000.00 suppose to paid Tikkler back and implied that would cover both of my cue order. keep in mind that I already had a pre-warning from another maker not to give him any more money but I try to be nice about it and agreed to pay for my first cue in full to help him out. Zinzola send another paypal invoice on May 21, 2012 which I send him the money to paid Tikkler back, 2 weeks later I find out he didn't pay Tikkler but took the money to go on vacation with his family. another member here * Jive * is my dear friend have an order with Zinzola but Tony keep giving us all the run arounds, by end of 2012 Jive decided to cancel his order and ask for his deposit back and told Zinzola to send me the deposit, sometime around Jan 14-25 Tony send a check in the amount of $700.00 using his WIFE bank check, at first I didn't think anything wrong with it and deposit the check to find out it will bounced, Zinzola calls me on Feb 1, 2013 in the evening when I was in Arizona with 2 well respected cue maker sitting right next to me to find out it was a fake check, he gave me some B.S story about his wife used the money etc...... told him he needs to make it right and few days pasted he did deposit $730.00 after a long conversation.
Sometime around end of March, 2013 I demand an answer from Tony about my order which he ask for 3 week extension, I told him we will talk 3 weeks later and than 1 extension after another with different B.S. excuses., On May 2013 he told me the cue is done and I ask for a tracking number, this MOFO SCUMBAG went into USPS to grab a fake tracking number to send me which the package was never send out, towards the end of May 2013 I demand prove of pic's the cue is being done, Zinzola took 1 side of the buttsleeve picture to send to me as a prove by misleading me and waited couple more weeks with same B.S. excuses again, finally I had enough of his deceiving excuses one morning when directly to the airport and brought a ticket to Boston, call him 20min before arriving his house he still keeps on lying about the cue is done and ask me if I can come back the next day instead which I refused and told him I am leaving on the same day flight back to NY that when the truth came out the cue is no where near 50% done, show up at his house while his kids and wife at home, I still give his family some respect by not turning on him, went down to his shop to show me the disappointed cue as he made promise he would finish the cue and deliver by July 15, 2013 until today still nothing. As much as he claims he runs an real estate business buying and selling resturants, is all full of shit, this MOFO wants to take people money and thinks is okay because he thinks we cue buyer or collector owe it to him.
Now, I know some of you gonna try to defend this scumbag by saying there always 2 or 3 side to the story, which I don't give a F*#K about, this is my side of the story, I have all the paypal prove and all the text message prove along with the fake tracking number and misleading pic's.

Damn...I've met Tony and would have never thought he was capable of this. I have no reason to believe you're making this stuff up so all I can say is, this is beyond disappointing. It's outright stealing.