How exactly does the Billiard Congress Of America support the professional player?

[ENGLISH!]

Robin,

IMO the BCA has also 'delegated' or 'farmed out' it's role where instructors are concerned.

Now that's a whole other issue or story. But it's just another example of the BCA becoming less of an influential or supporting entity.

What the BCA was is certainly no longer & for one to think of the BCA as it once was is a delusion.

American Billiards is in a shambles with no organization or leadership from any position at the top.

Yes there are some in the middle ground that are doing their best. But there is no one at the top to look to for anything.

That is why IMO that the PROS need to take their future in their own hands in a similar manner as did the PGA many many years ago. Then & only then will those with money be coming to them.

In other words, no pro players, no money for those that make money off their talent. People don't watch to see Arimath Balls, or Diamond tables, or Cuetec cues. They watch to see great players play great pool. CJ is correct about that & creating more interest with more personal attachment would certainly be a good thing.

When are the Pros collectively going to realize that THEY are the commodity & that collectively the power can be in their hands. But not as individuals. They need to unite & then bite the bullet & go into hibernation for perhaps a year or two or maybe 3. They, under an association, must make themselves needed & then desired & then a 'paid' for commodity that those that want to make money off of their sweat will realize that they need them to make that money. A farmer does not treat his crop with a lack of respect. A farmer treats his crop with the respect & CARE that it both requires & deserves if the farmer has any hope of making any money when he goes to harvest & then sell the crop.

As things are now a Pro Player is similar to a part time slave. In golf, if you make the cut & play the last 2 rounds you get a check. No pro pool player should enter a tournament & basically lose money for the effort.

No pain no gain. Turming the pro game around will not be a joyful journey. It will be a long hard climb, but the reward at the summit can be well worth the pain not just this generation but for the next, & the next, & the next.

Part of the problem is that the game is of an individual nature , but so is golf. The PGA stands for the Professional Golfers Association.

United We Stand. Divided We Fall ('Die').

Naturally all of the above are just my opinions and...'I could be wrong'.

Best Wishes,
Rick

Edit: The PGA doles out who can host & sponsor 'their' tournaments & they have their own PGA courses & tournaments.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

I do however agree with your assessment of the advertising of Billiards, the explanation, etc. There isn't anyone coming up with anything that tells the General Public about pool. That is quite a challenge and finding someone who can fund that and having something like that actually give back a return to them that will make a difference in their bottom line as well as pool is going to be quite a balancing act.

Taking my idea in a different direction here because from what I know, the BCA does not have the resources to operate a pro tour. I was just saying, "wouldn't it behoove them to do so (if they could)?"

Anyway it would be nice to see them do something along the lines of the video clips I mentioned above. Make them free to the public. At least put them on You Tube. If there ever is any pool on TV, ask the promoter of that tournament and/or the network to run the video clips (including womens pro events). Just give them the videos for free. Any positive exposure that educated potential new fans would be good. Even all the free streams could edit their You tube versions of a match and run them. Maybe Accu-Stats could place them within their DVD's. Just give out these video clips for free to any pool related entity that would be willing to include them along with their content.

If the BCA doesn't have the resources or the desire to make three two-minute video clips, then the situation is worse than I thought.

Fatz

 

[336Robin]

sorry dont see it..

Robin,

IMO the BCA has also 'delegated' or 'farmed out' it's role where instructors are concerned.

Now that's a whole other issue or story. But it's just another example of the BCA becoming less of an influential or supporting entity.

What the BCA was is certainly no longer & for one to think of the BCA as it once was is a delusion.

American Billiards is in a shambles with no organization or leadership from any position at the top.

Yes there are some in the middle ground that are doing their best. But there is no one at the top to look to for anything.

That is why IMO that the PROS need to take their future in their own hands in a similar manner as did the PGA many many years ago. Then & only then will those with money be coming to them.

In other words, no pro players, no money for those that make money off their talent. People don't watch to see Arimath Balls, or Diamond tables, or Cuetec cues. They watch to see great players play great pool. CJ is correct about that & creating more interest with more personal attachment would certainly be a good thing.

When are the Pros collectively going to realize that THEY are the commodity & that collectively the power can be in their hands. But not as individuals. They need to unite & then bite the bullet & go into hibernation for perhaps a year or two or maybe 3. They, under an association, must make themselves needed & then desired & then a 'paid' for commodity that those that want to make money off of their sweat will realize that they need them to make that money. A farmer does not treat his crop with a lack of respect. A farmer treats his crop with the respect & CARE that it both requires & deserves if the farmer has any hope of making any money when he goes to harvest & then sell the crop.

As things are now a Pro Player is similar to a part time slave. In golf, if you make the cut & play the last 2 rounds you get a check. No pro pool player should enter a tournament & basically lose money for the effort.

No pain no gain. Turming the pro game around will not be a joyful journey. It will be a long hard climb, but the reward at the summit can be well worth the pain not just this generation but for the next, & the next, & the next.

Part of the problem is that the game is of an individual nature , but so is golf. The PGA stands for the Professional Golfers Association.

United We Stand. Divided We Fall ('Die').

Naturally all of the above are just my opinions and...'I could be wrong'.

Best Wishes,
Rick

Edit: The PGA doles out who can host & sponsor 'their' tournaments & they have their own PGA courses & tournaments.

Rick,
I can agree to some of what you said but the idea that anyone is making any money off of the pro players....I don't see it. The only way that is ever going to happen is when people come to something like the Expo and that is done basically by ONE GUY and its at HIS RISK. I would bet if you asked Allen Hopkins how much he added to the Expo payouts you would find out he added all of it.

I hate to say it but I also don't see them as commodity either. They go and yon and play for the money and it doesn't appear to me that they do anything much for the fans. If they did they would have done it and I would have heard about it by now but please correct me if I'm wrong because I would like to be wrong.

When the Pro Players do more for the fans, corporate interests will want to get involved.

If they go into hiding as you suggest. I think Sportsbar pool and Pool Room pool will be just fine. No changes because they don't spend much time doing anything for the fans anyway. They would just disappear but also a lot of other people who make small bits would also. Pool might just collapse in the commercial sense. I don't see that as good for the Industry at all.

Perhaps the Reverse is True. Perhaps we should be more concerned about the base of the Sport and take care of the creation of New Players and focus on the ethics of the sport so Corporate Interest would be more widespread. Certainly TV would help but someone pays for that and there we go back to who wants to pay for something that isn't bringing back a return. If a return isn't realized, value is nil.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick,
I can agree to some of what you said but the idea that anyone is making any money off of the pro players....I don't see it. The only way that is ever going to happen is when people come to something like the Expo and that is done basically by ONE GUY and its at HIS RISK. I would bet if you asked Allen Hopkins how much he added to the Expo payouts you would find out he added all of it.

I hate to say it but I also don't see them as commodity either. They go and yon and play for the money and it doesn't appear to me that they do anything much for the fans. If they did they would have done it and I would have heard about it by now but please correct me if I'm wrong because I would like to be wrong.

When the Pro Players do more for the fans, corporate interests will want to get involved.

If they go into hiding as you suggest. I think Sportsbar pool and Pool Room pool will be just fine. No changes because they don't spend much time doing anything for the fans anyway. They would just disappear but also a lot of other people who make small bits would also. Pool might just collapse in the commercial sense. I don't see that as good for the Industry at all.

Perhaps the Reverse is True. Perhaps we should be more concerned about the base of the Sport and take care of the creation of New Players and focus on the ethics of the sport so Corporate Interest would be more widespread. Certainly TV would help but someone pays for that and there we go back to who wants to pay for something that isn't bringing back a return. If a return isn't realized, value is nil.

Robin,

I agree with much of what you say, especially regarding the actions & behavior of the pros. And that is sort of my point. If one keeps doing the same thing & expects a different outcome, well I'l leave that to be filled in however one wishes. In fact, we agree more than you might think. We are just speaking about different times... past, present, & hopefully future.

I think the PGA history is a fair analogy & what they did & how they did it might be a good model. The baby has to be spanked & suffer that bit of pain before he/she takes their first breath on their own.

The point is that the BCA is not doing anything really to help them. Some other entities are trying. But...the players have to stop looking for help & investors & take matters into their own hands & be responsible for their own future & partner with some of those that want to help &/or co-benefit.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[336Robin]

Right on!

Robin,

I agree with much of what you say, especially regarding the actions & behavior of the pros. And that is sort of my point. If one keeps doing the same thing & expects a different outcome, well I'l leave that to be filled in however one wishes. In fact, we agree more than you might think. We are just speaking about different times... past, present, & hopefully future.

I think the PGA history is a fair analogy & what they did & how they did it might be a good model. The baby has to be spanked & suffer that bit of pain before he/she takes their first breath on their own.

The point is that the BCA is not doing anything really to help them. Some other entities are trying. But...the players have to stop looking for help & investors & take matters into their own hands & be responsible for their own future & partner with some of those that want to help &/or co-benefit.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

Rick,

Right on brother, Right on! Everything has to work right and that means down to the money. Yeah the baby is getting spanked and some are learning. I know I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I would like to see it be easier to be a Pro Player but so much is falling apart in front of our faces that we have to do something different even if its wrong. Ive tried to put together a Trade Show myself several times. Just try to get that money to work out....talk about pieces of a puzzle. I don't see many people making it in that business. It takes awhile to get that to work. My hat is off to those that do.

 

[cardiac kid]

What other entity is going to support American pro pool? The WPA? Not a chance! BCA? Not a chance! Who then? Mark Griffin stated in one of his earlier posts he's getting tired of all the outside (JA / CW / LC) shenanigans. If Mark and Greg get to the point they give up on pro pool, you will be able to stick a fork in it because it will be dead!!!!! From my point of view, CSI and Diamond Billiard Products are the prime supporters of pro pool today.

I remember a few years ago Greg Sullivan discussed having three or possibly four events like Derby City scattered around the country. He was half way there. Whether he will continue to have the support of Caesar's Entertainment Inc. is the question. Certainly hope this Springs fiasco with Tunica versus BB in Vegas didn't cause him to rethink Diamond's promotion and participation in future events.

The pro players have no one but themselves to blame for their current situation. JMHO.

Lyn

 

[Mr. Bond]

BCA,,, yes. I also put Tweeten Fibre on the list of those who could but don't do anything for professional pool.

What does the APA do for professional pool?

And, why single out the BCA or Tweeten?
What does Brunswick do?
How about Schmidt?
How about Silver Cup?
How about Minnesota Fats?

Better yet, what are the pros doing for themselves to promote and ensure the future of pro pool? The ABP?? And they do what? Making sure you get paid and inventing your own ranking system does nothing to promote the future of pro pool.

The BCA has made mistakes, yes. But too many people are just looking for someone to blame. Is the economy and all the closing pool halls the fault of the BCA? Is Bonus Ball or IPT the fault of the BCA? Is Brunswick, the largest producer of pool tables in history, totally removing themselves from supporting pro pool the fault of the BCA? Is ESPN, and practically every American TV network all but ignoring pool the fault of the BCA?
Is the lack of ethics and bad behavior of certain pool players that continue to give pool a bad rap, the fault of the BCA? Are pro players not getting paid on time or at all the fault of the BCA? All of these individual events and promoters could work together for a cohesive pro 'tour', but they simply won't, is that the BCA's fault too??

At what point do people stop blaming and start doing something ?
I bet 99.9999999% of the people reading this have never tried to secure a position with the BCA, or any other association for that matter. Because its much easier to rule the world from your recliner or your computer screen.

The BCA could, in theory, do a lot more. I do agree with that. But, as far as I can see, no other association is doing anything better. And besides, its the actual companies who stand to profit from a better billiards world who should be stepping up, because ultimately its their own bottom lines that will suffer if they don't.

Got Milk?
Pork, the other white meat.
Beef, its what's for dinner.
Orange juice, its not just for breakfast anymore.
G.E. we bring good things to life.

So many american industries figured out a long time ago how to band together for the benefit of everyone in the business. Why not pool?

Is that the BCA's fault too?

 

[CB Jones]

Robin,

I agree with much of what you say, especially regarding the actions & behavior of the pros. And that is sort of my point. If one keeps doing the same thing & expects a different outcome, well I'l leave that to be filled in however one wishes. In fact, we agree more than you might think. We are just speaking about different times... past, present, & hopefully future.

I think the PGA history is a fair analogy & what they did & how they did it might be a good model. The baby has to be spanked & suffer that bit of pain before he/she takes their first breath on their own.

The point is that the BCA is not doing anything really to help them. Some other entities are trying. But...the players have to stop looking for help & investors & take matters into their own hands & be responsible for their own future & partner with some of those that want to help &/or co-benefit.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

I have often wondered why the BCA hasn't followed the PGA model. The PGA helps train / educate its membership in how to properly run every facet of a golf course or driving range facility. This included training in accounting, budgeting, retail, F&B, tee time management, tournament management, handicap management, teaching and golf cart management to name a few. This as well as one of the main goals of growing the game of golf. They made sure that every facility would want a PGA member/s in a management role. This gives you a great grass roots campaign to grow the game. While they would also hold some tournaments this was never their main interest.

CB

 

[336Robin]

What does the APA do for professional pool?

And, why single out the BCA or Tweeten?
What does Brunswick do?
How about Schmidt?
How about Silver Cup?
How about Minnesota Fats?

Better yet, what are the pros doing for themselves to promote and ensure the future of pro pool? The ABP?? And they do what? Making sure you get paid and inventing your own ranking system does nothing to promote the future of pro pool.

The BCA has made mistakes, yes. But too many people are just looking for someone to blame. Is the economy and all the closing pool halls the fault of the BCA? Is Bonus Ball or IPT the fault of the BCA? Is Brunswick, the largest producer of pool tables in history, totally removing themselves from supporting pro pool the fault of the BCA? Is ESPN, and practically every American TV network all but ignoring pool the fault of the BCA?
Is the lack of ethics and bad behavior of certain pool players that continue to give pool a bad rap, the fault of the BCA? Are pro players not getting paid on time or at all the fault of the BCA? All of these individual events and promoters could work together for a cohesive pro 'tour', but they simply won't, is that the BCA's fault too??

At what point do people stop blaming and start doing something ?
I bet 99.9999999% of the people reading this have never tried to secure a position with the BCA, or any other association for that matter. Because its much easier to rule the world from your recliner or your computer screen.

The BCA could, in theory, do a lot more. I do agree with that. But, as far as I can see, no other association is doing anything better. And besides, its the actual companies who stand to profit from a better billiards world who should be stepping up, because ultimately its their own bottom lines that will suffer if they don't.

Got Milk?
Pork, the other white meat.
Beef, its what's for dinner.
Orange juice, its not just for breakfast anymore.
G.E. we bring good things to life.

So many american industries figured out a long time ago how to ban together for the benefit of everyone in the business. Why not pool?

Is that the BCA's fault too?

Mr. Bond,
I agree. There have been organizations formed that really don't do anything for the betterment of the grassroots of the game. Got Milk!.....if we had something like that people would know we exist.

I see no other way around it other than create, form etc. a body that its whole purpose is to raise the consciousness of general everyday Americans that pool exists and if we do that show it in a positive light.

This seems to be something we don't currently have is the exposure but then you ask yourself.....who is willing to be members and why would they want to pay for it?

It seems almost providential that pool is going to implode on itself without a head to guide it.

So who steps up and says:

Ok guys we are going to form a group of people, wholesalers, retailers etc that are interested in having a meeting and forming some study groups on what we as a group together can do to raise the consciousness that our sport and industry exists.

This is where we are going to meet and we are going to do it...on a certain date.

If someone did that....who would come...who would join...who would listen...how many would wait to see what happened so it didn't cost them anything to know?

I just don't know that anyone is able to wrap their minds around the fact that something needs to be done even if it doesn't involve an immediate profit and unless someone is crowned the King of Pool and says...ok this is what we are going to do and everyone say ok lets do it......I just don't see how anything is going to get done because it seems no one is willing to listen to anyone else unless it involves them making some money.

 

[decent dennis]

What does the APA do for professional pool?

And, why single out the BCA or Tweeten?
What does Brunswick do?
How about Schmidt?
How about Silver Cup?
How about Minnesota Fats?

Better yet, what are the pros doing for themselves to promote and ensure the future of pro pool? The ABP?? And they do what? Making sure you get paid and inventing your own ranking system does nothing to promote the future of pro pool.

The BCA has made mistakes, yes. But too many people are just looking for someone to blame. Is the economy and all the closing pool halls the fault of the BCA? Is Bonus Ball or IPT the fault of the BCA? Is Brunswick, the largest producer of pool tables in history, totally removing themselves from supporting pro pool the fault of the BCA? Is ESPN, and practically every American TV network all but ignoring pool the fault of the BCA?
Is the lack of ethics and bad behavior of certain pool players that continue to give pool a bad rap, the fault of the BCA? Are pro players not getting paid on time or at all the fault of the BCA? All of these individual events and promoters could work together for a cohesive pro 'tour', but they simply won't, is that the BCA's fault too??

At what point do people stop blaming and start doing something ?
I bet 99.9999999% of the people reading this have never tried to secure a position with the BCA, or any other association for that matter. Because its much easier to rule the world from your recliner or your computer screen.

The BCA could, in theory, do a lot more. I do agree with that. But, as far as I can see, no other association is doing anything better. And besides, its the actual companies who stand to profit from a better billiards world who should be stepping up, because ultimately its their own bottom lines that will suffer if they don't.

Got Milk?
Pork, the other white meat.
Beef, its what's for dinner.
Orange juice, its not just for breakfast anymore.
G.E. we bring good things to life.

So many american industries figured out a long time ago how to band together for the benefit of everyone in the business. Why not pool?

Is that the BCA's fault too?

Pool, because it's cool.

 

[336Robin]

New Players

The BCA with its fat industry members should have created a pro tour with funds coming from the fat industry members. If there were a pro tour, pool might have a chance in mainstream America on TV.

Whiffer,
That's quite a tome you've written. I don't think its escaped anyone that the BCA doesn't seem to be the BCA that we thought they should be. I will say its distressing to see that there is no organized Pro Tour. Ive tried idea upon idea to try and get something to work and keep running into road blocks with anything pool I try to dream up. From what I have seen if it isn't self supporting and making money, it goes away pretty quickly. People just stop doling it out at a point.

Yeah its sad. Sure is.

My complaint is that no one is saying........Got Pool....to anyone. The general public doesn't know that pool exists. Very limited new exposure. If we had some exposure then our numbers might grow and the industry might flourish and there might be interest in developing a Pro Tour.

Lots of financial crisis last 20 yrs it seems. Folks just don't have as much money. There are a lot of people who would love to see Pro Pool in the spotlight. Its hard to say what needs to be done to reorganize but its clear Pool is going to have to be member driven and not Industry Member driven as you have mentioned.

I know nothing about these piles of money that the BCA is supposedly making but I don't see it that way. When I've talked to them they were nice to me but I think the organization has changed.

As I type these words I find it completely Ludacris that the idea of a body who is supposed to be the governing body isn't involved in some aspect of organizing Professional Pool. It does not seem right that they are absent. Their absence is felt.

Professional Pool is a conundrum being left up to the promoter and God help him cause it doesn't make money a lot of the time and last I checked it takes that to get people to have tournaments. Just get a notebook and try creating a trade show and see what expenses you have and attendance you need to pay for it.

I have to sadly say you are right.

Our governing organization and its industry members it seems just aren't getting a lot done to help our sport on a grassroots level. Rooms are folding in record numbers and thing don't look great.

My question is: How far does it have to go before something is done by someone?

No one seems to be rushing to do much of anything and at the other end of the spectrum, new players are not being created by general public exposure and if I were a industry member I would be much more concerned with that than with Professional Pool. Sorry but amateurs use more cloth, chalk, cue sticks, buy more table than pros do. Industry members get their money from consumers...that's the bottom line. In other words we are all sort of on our own. Pool is a disorganized conglomeration of free people trying to find a profit. If your end isn't making profits its going to have a hard time. If it were then it would be flourishing. So we have to take care of ourselves....some how.

Its a sorry state of affairs that I don't have an answer for at the moment but I will leave you with this.

I think we all need to ask ourselves what have we done to strengthen the grassroots of pool?

If your answer is nothing, then that's what you are going to be left with in the end ....Nothing. Nothing from Nothing is Nothing.

Sure we can lambast the BCA and they might well deserve it.

Its not going to change anything until someone decides they want to get into the same business the BCA has put themselves in....and that's not going to matter to them or Industry Members one iota until there are numbers sufficient to concern them and I just don't see that happening, not for a long time.

Even if the BCA were to vanish overnight and a new organization popped up. Unless it were making sufficient funds to add to tournaments it wouldn't fix your problem.

You know it and I know it.....folks we are on our own. Amateurs, Pros, Room Owners, Manufacturers, Wholesalers, Promoters, Authors, Pool Cue Makers etc. and no Public Exposure. Kind of a hard Industry to work in isn't it?

This is a consumer driven industry and no new consumers are being created= We are screwing up on a level bigger, much bigger than some of us can even see. I would think the problem is bigger than an absent Pro Tour, much bigger.

 

[CJ Wiley]

When I started the PCA the BCA Granted me $25,000 to operate the office

The BCA with its fat industry members should have created a pro tour with funds coming from the fat industry members. If there were a pro tour, pool might have a chance in mainstream America on TV.

Whiffer,
That's quite a tome you've written. I don't think its escaped anyone that the BCA doesn't seem to be the BCA that we thought they should be. I will say its distressing to see that there is no organized Pro Tour. Ive tried idea upon idea to try and get something to work and keep running into road blocks with anything pool I try to dream up. From what I have seen if it isn't self supporting and making money, it goes away pretty quickly. People just stop doling it out at a point.

Yeah its sad. Sure is.

My complaint is that no one is saying........Got Pool....to anyone. The general public doesn't know that pool exists. Very limited new exposure. If we had some exposure then our numbers might grow and the industry might flourish and there might be interest in developing a Pro Tour.

Lots of financial crisis last 20 yrs it seems. Folks just don't have as much money. There are a lot of people who would love to see Pro Pool in the spotlight. Its hard to say what needs to be done to reorganize but its clear Pool is going to have to be member driven and not Industry Member driven as you have mentioned.

I know nothing about these piles of money that the BCA is supposedly making but I don't see it that way. When I've talked to them they were nice to me but I think the organization has changed.

As I type these words I find it completely Ludacris that the idea of a body who is supposed to be the governing body isn't involved in some aspect of organizing Professional Pool. It does not seem right that they are absent. Their absence is felt.

Professional Pool is a conundrum being left up to the promoter and God help him cause it doesn't make money a lot of the time and last I checked it takes that to get people to have tournaments. Just get a notebook and try creating a trade show and see what expenses you have and attendance you need to pay for it.

I have to sadly say you are right.

Our governing organization and its industry members it seems just aren't getting a lot done to help our sport on a grassroots level. Rooms are folding in record numbers and thing don't look great.

My question is: How far does it have to go before something is done by someone?

No one seems to be rushing to do much of anything and at the other end of the spectrum, new players are not being created by general public exposure and if I were a industry member I would be much more concerned with that than with Professional Pool. Sorry but amateurs use more cloth, chalk, cue sticks, buy more table than pros do. Industry members get their money from consumers...that's the bottom line. In other words we are all sort of on our own. Pool is a disorganized conglomeration of free people trying to find a profit. If your end isn't making profits its going to have a hard time. If it were then it would be flourishing. So we have to take care of ourselves....some how.

Its a sorry state of affairs that I don't have an answer for at the moment but I will leave you with this.

I think we all need to ask ourselves what have we done to strengthen the grassroots of pool?

If your answer is nothing, then that's what you are going to be left with in the end ....Nothing. Nothing from Nothing is Nothing.

Sure we can lambast the BCA and they might well deserve it.

Its not going to change anything until someone decides they want to get into the same business the BCA has put themselves in....and that's not going to matter to them or Industry Members one iota until there are numbers sufficient to concern them and I just don't see that happening, not for a long time.

Even if the BCA were to vanish overnight and a new organization popped up. Unless it were making sufficient funds to add to tournaments it wouldn't fix your problem.

You know it and I know it.....folks we are on our own. Amateurs, Pros, Room Owners, Manufacturers, Wholesalers, Promoters, Authors, Pool Cue Makers etc. and no Public Exposure. Kind of a hard Industry to work in isn't it?

This is a consumer driven industry and no new consumers are being created= We are screwing up on a level bigger, much bigger than some of us can even see. I would think the problem is bigger than an absent Pro Tour, much bigger.

When I started the PCA the BCA Granted me $25,000 to operate the office since it was for a Professional Pocket Billiard Organization. The also sponsored several tournaments for $25,000 Added and one for $50,000 (I'm not sure how much they put in each one, they may have teamed with other companies like McDermott and Brunswick).

They also ran several commercials a month on ESPN and other TV stations to keep Pocket Billiards in the Public Eye.....From my information this was discontinued several years ago. "The unplugged the advertising clock to save money"...not a good move, the industry has suffered from lack of TV Exposure ever since.

 

[greyghost]

ill keep this short....in my opinion the bca doesn't do anything for pool (or better yet anything well or worth clapping about) much less the pro arena of the sport. They sold out long ago on that echelon. To me trade orgainization is no better than a union.

-Greyghost

 

[Maniac]

The one thing we can all agree on in pool. The organizations sure love three letter acronyms.

APA, BCA, CSI, WPA, IPT, PBT, ABT, UPT, ABC (Tuckers new league thing), TAP. Any others I missed?

SOL

Maniac

 

[mowermarty]

the new t v

It seems T V is changing fast. smart TV's and you tube or hulu type services may rule in three or for years. Broadcast and cable will not dominate. I recently got a laptop,a projector, and high speed net. Pool on the wall ten foot tall for less than 800 dollars.
Someone will get a circuit going that has mostly the same players and some type of season play off leading to the championship game/match. Many regional tours have the basics already. The part missing is getting non players and casual players to watch the streams in large numbers. Someone who can get softcore players to watch - and attract the better players to gravitate to their tour will start to get the non pool ad money coming in.
Pool will be saved by combining someone very good at web advertising with a good tour operater and four or five years time. Plus you need a good show.
Many are close now but how to hook up with a good marketing person and as always pay for it.
How many eyeballs do you need to get P&G any know?

 

[336Robin]

Robin,

IMO the BCA has also 'delegated' or 'farmed out' it's role where instructors are concerned.

Now that's a whole other issue or story. But it's just another example of the BCA becoming less of an influential or supporting entity.

What the BCA was is certainly no longer & for one to think of the BCA as it once was is a delusion.

American Billiards is in a shambles with no organization or leadership from any position at the top.

Yes there are some in the middle ground that are doing their best. But there is no one at the top to look to for anything.

Rick,
Yeah. Ive had discussions about Instructor Program before on here. Im not sure what to think of some of that. On one hand Im sure those guys are putting out a quality product but wow what a cost! Im happy for them if they continue getting students at those rates but my idea would involve a little less cost and a few less tiers to the system but thats my opinion. I always thought if more instructors were in the field then they might help more people love the game. The cost is prohibitive of recouping the cost in my area.

 

[Jerry Forsyth]

I am constantly bemused by these posts asking what the BCA is doing for pro pool. And, in particular, the references to industry "Fat Cats". What a joke. There are no Fat Cats in pool. There used to be, back in 2000 and before when we had 40,000,000 pool players in America contributing to that economy.

And back then those Fat Cats were shoveling over $500,000 per year into pro pool. And no one seems to remember that.

But times have changed. The number of players and pool rooms and retailers has been cut by half since 2000. Pool is in a death spiral and the companies that have managed to survive are doing so by cutting costs, not by looking for ways to spend money.

So what we need to ask is how are the pro players making themselves a viable alternative for the sponsorship buck? Remember, times have changed. Players can no longer expect a nice monthly check for just wearing a patch. But they do not seem to realize that.

If you see a player who is willing to work for his sponsors you will find a player with sponsors. I know of several cue companies who would sponsor someone who is willing to do just the tiniest amount of work. Like, instead of packing the cue case up and leaving after their match, a player who would go through the stands and show his cue to the fans and ask them if they like the balance of it and answer any questions that these potential buyers might have. Someone willing to earn a check like all of us must do.

Pool tournaments do not draw a lot of spectators. A lot less than they did years ago. So the reasons for sponsoring events and players have changed. It is time the players took the bull by the horns and made positive strides on their own. I know of no company that has been approached by the players or their union and presented with a long-term promotional plan.

The players need to stop looking for the easy way out and instead concentrate on what value they can add to the sponsors that make them attractive. There are a lot of unturned stones out there but many players keep waiting for someone else to lift the rocks.

The latest fiasco, Bonus Ball, is a perfect example of how the easy way out can strangle your ass. It has cost pro pool promoters and sponsors. And there are players who will indeed go back to Vegas if another investor can be found to keep the shop open another few weeks. None of them seem to realize that just hooking another investor is not a business plan. And there is still no visible viable business plan for BB. But they will return and get burned again and chase even more money out of the game if they get the chance. Short-term gain and long-term pain. It seems to be the norm in pro pool.

Taking the easy way out just gets you out. It does nothing to provide for the future.

 

[336Robin]

Exactly

I am constantly bemused by these posts asking what the BCA is doing for pro pool. And, in particular, the references to industry "Fat Cats". What a joke. There are no Fat Cats in pool. There used to be, back in 2000 and before when we had 40,000,000 pool players in America contributing to that economy.

And back then those Fat Cats were shoveling over $500,000 per year into pro pool. And no one seems to remember that.

But times have changed. The number of players and pool rooms and retailers has been cut by half since 2000. Pool is in a death spiral and the companies that have managed to survive are doing so by cutting costs, not by looking for ways to spend money.

So what we need to ask is how are the pro players making themselves a viable alternative for the sponsorship buck? Remember, times have changed. Players can no longer expect a nice monthly check for just wearing a patch. But they do not seem to realize that.

If you see a player who is willing to work for his sponsors you will find a player with sponsors. I know of several cue companies who would sponsor someone who is willing to do just the tiniest amount of work. Like, instead of packing the cue case up and leaving after their match, a player who would go through the stands and show his cue to the fans and ask them if they like the balance of it and answer any questions that these potential buyers might have. Someone willing to earn a check like all of us must do.

Pool tournaments do not draw a lot of spectators. A lot less than they did years ago. So the reasons for sponsoring events and players have changed. It is time the players took the bull by the horns and made positive strides on their own. I know of no company that has been approached by the players or their union and presented with a long-term promotional plan.

The players need to stop looking for the easy way out and instead concentrate on what value they can add to the sponsors that make them attractive. There are a lot of unturned stones out there but many players keep waiting for someone else to lift the rocks.

The latest fiasco, Bonus Ball, is a perfect example of how the easy way out can strangle your ass. It has cost pro pool promoters and sponsors. And there are players who will indeed go back to Vegas if another investor can be found to keep the shop open another few weeks. None of them seem to realize that just hooking another investor is not a business plan. And there is still no visible viable business plan for BB. But they will return and get burned again and chase even more money out of the game if they get the chance. Short-term gain and long-term pain. It seems to be the norm in pro pool.

Taking the easy way out just gets you out. It does nothing to provide for the future.

Jerry,
Exactly. Pool is and should be a spectator sport....with fans. Very few rooms are set up for dealing with Spectators. If I knew that I could go see a Pro play someone in my area I would sure go and I would bet that some sponsorship money could be worked out. Can you imagine how much support could be gotten for being in touch with the fans? A lot.

 

[Cornerman]

What is the difference between BCA and CSI? Seriously curious, not being a smart ass.

From my view the basically seem to be the same entity with BCA being a product of CSI? I'm pry way off, but I should know this one.

No current connection.

Mark G. bought the BCAPL (The BCA Pool League) including the rights to the Amateur National 8-ball Championship years ago.

When peope write "BCA," then that's only only only only the Billiard Congress of America trade organization and nothing to do with CSI

 

[sjm]

So what we need to ask is how are the pro players making themselves a viable alternative for the sponsorship buck? Remember, times have changed. Players can no longer expect a nice monthly check for just wearing a patch. But they do not seem to realize that.

Great post, Jerry, but the lines I've quoted represent the crux of the matter.

As I posted in May:

The world of pool sometimes brings the 1960's show "Gilligan's Island" to mind. For those unaware of this show, it's premise was that a group of seven people on a cruise encounter a brutal storm and are washed to shore on an island not yet on anybody's map, and from which they cannot communicate with anybody. Stranded, they barely get by in a primitive lifestyle and on that rare occasion that a potential rescuer shows up to their island, a mistake is always made by one of the castaways that either obstructs or dissuades the rescuer from helping them.

Pro pool's error is continuing to wait for that rescuer. It thought it had found one in Bonus Ball, but it doesn't look so.

Adding value for sponsors, as you note, is the key but the pro game continues to evolve in the opposite direction.

Just a couple of weeks ago the finals of the Steinway Open in Queens, NY took place, a match that was streamed. The stream, understandably, had advertisements from companies offering financial support. The players were Hall of Famer Earl Strickland and rising star Jayson Shaw. Oddly enough, Jayson Shaw saw it fit to play the match wearing earphones. Why this was allowed at all in a "called shot" event is anyone's guess, so some of the blame must go to the organizers, but earphones tune out the audience, too, and they look ridiculous, not to mention unprofessional, on the stream.

Pro pool today has no rules, no standards for presentation, and everyone is doing their own thing when it comes to tournament play. It's a "house divided against itself," so we'll have to hope that Abraham Lincoln was wrong.