SVB Get's Bad Rap Not Winning Worlds
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Why play pool and hope for a legacy? Fact is, you will be remembered by a very small cult following here in the US, if that over time. Fact is that I can not even name a governing body in the US or elsewhere that I feel would be a good steward of pool's awards and accolades over the amount of time you mention.
Pool, as organized events go, is held together with string and used chewing gum. And that is really a disservice to SVB and every other name mentioned in this thread. For as wonderful a game that Pool is, its prominence (if it ever had any) is fading very very far from the public eye here in the US. If it weren't for AZB, I would know absolutely nothing about the goings on in the "pro" pool world. And that is too bad as well, as I am a rabid fan of the game.
Ah well, good luck to all, especially SVB and his peers. I hope that one day your efforts will be commensurately rewarded. Then again, if you like playing the game, you can never lose...screw it, rack 'em up...
I actually disagree that being a great money player is a better yardstick of skill than being a tournament champion. The very best players (like Shane and Buddy before him) can do both, win tournaments and win for the cash.
The fact is that winning any major tournament is a real test of skill and stamina. The ability to play good under pressure match after match cannot be minimized imo. Ask any of the top tournament players and see what they say about the pressure of playing Races to Eleven in a single elimination format. I think it's much harder to win a tournament like the current World 9-Ball Championship, than it is to win several money matches.
Bottom lime, it takes a lot of HEART to win one of these major tournaments, as even Donny will attest, as he had a close call a few years back in the U.S. Open, finishing third. The very best money player of my generation was Jack Cooney. He won more than the next ten guys combined. Will he go down in history as one of the all time greats, doubtful. Was he a great player, absolutely!
The fact is that winning any major tournament is a real test of skill and stamina. The ability to play good under pressure match after match cannot be minimized imo. Ask any of the top tournament players and see what they say about the pressure of playing Races to Eleven in a single elimination format. I think it's much harder to win a tournament like the current World 9-Ball Championship, than it is to win several money matches.
Bottom lime, it takes a lot of HEART to win one of these major tournaments, as even Donny will attest, as he had a close call a few years back in the U.S. Open, finishing third. The very best money player of my generation was Jack Cooney. He won more than the next ten guys combined. Will he go down in history as one of the all time greats, doubtful. Was he a great player, absolutely!
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So... does that simply mean that Shane is not the "cream"? Because he does not get there.
You state that a race to 100 is a better sign of who is best, and I do agree with that, and it seems that Shane wins those long sessions against the worlds best but he cannot win the titles? So is he really as good as his record in heads up races to 100 indicate and the races in the world events do not allow his significant skill to prevail? Or is he simply not as good as the other guys when it comes to playing these types of events?
You cannot have it both ways, either Shane is awesome, one of/if not the best and the races and format in these tournaments does not allow his superior skill to prevail, or the races are enough to allow the cream to rise to the top and Shane is simply not the cream of the crop in these events.
Pick one.
I believe a lot more evidence than we think may be available to the "upcoming generations" in the modern age, certainly far more than for the previous, which is held to grainy footage and weird, phony war-time compilation videos made for soldiers. We're not dealing with degradable reel recordings for god's sake, or Shane playing 10 ball at age 80.
People will be able to clearly see for what reasons Shane was a great, dominant player. The same is true of Efren -- it won't be a guy in 2080 looking at a list of his 'world titles,' it will be video of 8 rack runs, the '95 Sands, and perfectly natural 14.1, and that's all people will need to understand it. When we're all old fogies (no offence to those that already are!), our stories won't matter, truly, but only because the material evidence will be out there.
Also, if Buddy Hall is ever going to be forgotten or dismissed as the greatest 9 ball player on Earth during his time (and in my opinion, of all time), because of a lack of *bleep*ing world titles (and not lack of footage, as other posters imply), we should immediately start a club dedicated to preserving his legacy. That is just a tragedy; I've never seen a person play more beautiful pool.
And before I step off this soap box, I'll just say that I believe the chances of Shane winning a world title are pretty damn good, so this debate is moot. He has more talent than other master players, and he is an individual with powerful belief in himself, a unique kind of person. It's just a matter of time!
People will be able to clearly see for what reasons Shane was a great, dominant player. The same is true of Efren -- it won't be a guy in 2080 looking at a list of his 'world titles,' it will be video of 8 rack runs, the '95 Sands, and perfectly natural 14.1, and that's all people will need to understand it. When we're all old fogies (no offence to those that already are!), our stories won't matter, truly, but only because the material evidence will be out there.
Also, if Buddy Hall is ever going to be forgotten or dismissed as the greatest 9 ball player on Earth during his time (and in my opinion, of all time), because of a lack of *bleep*ing world titles (and not lack of footage, as other posters imply), we should immediately start a club dedicated to preserving his legacy. That is just a tragedy; I've never seen a person play more beautiful pool.
And before I step off this soap box, I'll just say that I believe the chances of Shane winning a world title are pretty damn good, so this debate is moot. He has more talent than other master players, and he is an individual with powerful belief in himself, a unique kind of person. It's just a matter of time!
That's because there is a big difference when playing tournament and gambling! In case you didn't know Mr. Bartram
Shane is as good if not better than all of them, its about the rolls and who is on that particular match! Notice I said match, not tournament! We all have bad matches, and we all have had real good matches playing extremely well and still come up short! That's the game, and that's why I love itWell said sir!!!
Good ol SJM has made this case for years. I always felt that way but i really never knew why til he put it in words so well. You're not bad yourself
Excellent example Jack Cooney
Very true, and his resume speaks for itself. People forget that he's only been winning big tournaments for 7 years. I'm talking from the Turning Stone victory until today.... 7 years.Think about that.And think about were he's at today.
I have no doubt, by the time he's 50, he'll own the record books, and go down as the greatest all around player ever.The dude has dedicate more time to so many facets of the game,it's ridiculous. He is a champion at everything he does. I would love to watch him play 3C after a year.
Worlds...Smurls.
I think you put too much faith in odd format tournaments held on sometimes questionable equipment. The standard for me is US Opens. Despite all its troubles of late with pay issues the format, equipment and fields have been consistent for many years.
There is the little matter of total money won as well.
Of the players you listed Shane has played three of them in long format 10 ball races. He destroyed all of them. The WPA event thing is a valid criticism and one day he will get that monkey off his back. But to say he is somehow not in the same class as those you mention because he hasn't won a WPA event is pretty silly IMO.
Exactly!!!
Im not saying SVB cant beat WU or KO . In fact in current form, he is probably the favorite but i'd love to see it and i'd kick in a few hundos towards travel expenses for either and i bet a few others would too if you could get either of them.
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Except you oh and me
You can't put cooney and Svb together they are about 5 balls apart
Last time I looked Svb has won a lot of tourneys
Just ask all players who they would not want to play I bet Svb comes up a lot
Some people don't get it
Like it or not he is the best player right now tourney or gambling
You are smarter then you look
Below is the payouts from last years open... Would you consider this field elite???
1st Shane Van Boening $25,000
2nd Dennis Orcollo $15,000
3rd Alex Pagulayan $10,000
4th Efren Reyes $6,000
5th/6th Ronnie Alcano $4,000
5th/6th Jose Parica $4,000
7th/8th Jun Lin Chang $3,000
7th/8th Darren Appleton $3,000
9th/12th Neils Feijen $2,000
9th/12th Jayson Shaw $2,000
9th/12th Johnny Archer $2,000
9th/12th He Wen Li $2,000
13th/16th Wang Can $1,800
13th/16th Tom D'Alfonso $1,800
13th/16th Corey Deuel $1,800
13th/16th Yukio Akagariyama $1,800
17th/24th Shawn Putnam $1,600
17th/24th Raj Hundal $1,600
17th/24th Nick Van den Berg $1,600
17th/24th Chris Melling $1,600
17th/24th Earl Strickland $1,600
17th/24th Jin Hu Dang $1,600
17th/24th Huidji See $1,600
17th/24th Albin Ouschan $1,600
25th/32nd Jason Klatt $1,400
25th/32nd Ko-Pin Ye $1,400
25th/32nd Louis Ulrich $1,400
25th/32nd Haitao Liu $1,400
25th/32nd Oscar Dominguez $1,400
25th/32nd Brandon Shuff $1,400
25th/32nd Daryl Peach $1,400
25th/32nd David Alcaide $1,400
Bold = former WPA World Champions
Few more former world champions that attended and cashed Mika, Thorsten, Ralf, Boyes and Busty.... Also believe that Ortmann and Varner both attended...
Could be wrong on a few or missed a few, but my count here is 18 world champions at the last us open that SVB snapped off...
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NYC cue dude
Banned
I think we got derailed here
No one is saying that Shane is not a great player, especially Stu. I think that most knowledgable pool players and fans know that Shane is the best player currently on the planet. What the thread is about is how history will treat Shane if he goes without a "World" title. It's is very possible that Shane's standing will be greatly diminished without one, regardless of his gambling prowess or the ubiquitous availability of video recordings. When everything is said and done, people always point to the record books. That Shane is likely the best player ever to yield a cue will be lost a century from now, without a single "major" victory.
Creating a remedy is another subject entirely. But I would suggest to him that dedicating himself by acclimating to the environment, weeks in advance of an event (much the same way as fighters do), may be a prudent solution. It's irrefutable that something occurs once that plane crosses an ocean. Being comfortable (without jet lag) with where you sleep, eat and play, builds confidence among other things.
No one is saying that Shane is not a great player, especially Stu. I think that most knowledgable pool players and fans know that Shane is the best player currently on the planet. What the thread is about is how history will treat Shane if he goes without a "World" title. It's is very possible that Shane's standing will be greatly diminished without one, regardless of his gambling prowess or the ubiquitous availability of video recordings. When everything is said and done, people always point to the record books. That Shane is likely the best player ever to yield a cue will be lost a century from now, without a single "major" victory.
Creating a remedy is another subject entirely. But I would suggest to him that dedicating himself by acclimating to the environment, weeks in advance of an event (much the same way as fighters do), may be a prudent solution. It's irrefutable that something occurs once that plane crosses an ocean. Being comfortable (without jet lag) with where you sleep, eat and play, builds confidence among other things.