you get what you pay for... SAYS WHO?

nineballsafety8 said:
So, before anyone gets the panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has become evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction were when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)
Click to expand...

Jay Helfert
5'6 170 pounds sopping wet
My break is broke!

It ain't the arrow, it's the Archer! In fact it might be Johnny Archer. ;)

P.S. I like your name, good choice!
 
jhanso18 said:
It has been done. You CAN measure deflection, and energy transfer. Two most important things in a cue.
Click to expand...

I agree w/ your earlier post. But this... you assert that a shaft with more deflection is worse? Each shaft may have a deflect more or less and it can be measured but it does not make a shaft better or worse. Just different. If that was the case everyone would play with a predator. I for one, won't because they don't deflect enough.
 
9BallEddie said:
That measurable difference can only be measured by a player and their skill level. A cue's "performance" is only as good as the player who holds it. A poor player with a $3,000 cue is not going to outplay a pro with a $100 cue. I don't care how low the deflection is.
Click to expand...

Very nicely said. :thumbup:
 
Jay! You finally nailed it :)

It's fine to collect cues, as long as you are honest and accept you're doing it for collection purposes,
and not for your game. The #1 thing in your game is consistency.
How do you get consistent? Sure as shit it isn't by switching to a different cue every week.
Stick to the lucky for a while, if you can overcome the must-buy-new-cue-NOW jitters.
 
One of my favorite cues ever is a $14.99 Minnesota Fats CLASSIC hardwood cue.

Lacquered shaft, joint is not faced well at all, but the shaft is so crazy stiff it is unbelievable. Tons of density.

It hits like a truck and I can get some unbelievable spin on the ball. I want a trick shot artist to try it out.

It's ugly, but it plays very strong.
 
galipeau said:
Here's my argument for buying any good custom: besides supporting these craftsman, would you rather go through 1-2 good customs that wil last 30+ years, or go through 5-10 cheapo McDermotts....
Click to expand...


Your post caught my eye. So .... which moving part in that cheapo McDermott will fail 5 to 10 times in 30 yrs? :scratchhead:

What you say? There are no moving parts in a pool cue! :eek:

Then what the heck fails, the battery? The magnetic charge? I don't get it.

How it is is like this. If you like custom cues ... wonderful. If you have the money to spend on them, even better!

If you think they will make you play better, then they will. No different from a rabbit's foot in your pocket that you believe will bring you luck.

Yes there is real shit wood, yes there are 12 piece cues with grain in the shaft wide enough to slide your credit card through. Let's stipulate that neither of us are talking about those pieces of kindling wood.

A nice tight grained rock maple shaft is a nice rock maple shaft. Aged better with a custom cue you say? Don't you believe it for a minute.

Put yourself in this situation. Your business is providing quality cue shaft blanks to cue makers. You have various makers that buy a dozen or so at a time. They come back to you if they are satisfied.

Now you have McDermott who probably buys hundreds at a time. Who ya gonna be real sure you satisfy?

Sure they are all good quality, from there the ferrule, tip taper are all variables that you can change to your own personal liking.

Now the butt. That's wood too. No magic dust inside, just some metal for weight. Some are slid up higher some have different balance points and weights, this again is nothing more than personal preference.

Custom cues give some that warm fuzzy feeling that can help your game.

Not unlike a Harley Davidson motorcycle vs a high end Yamaha or Honda cruiser. Some people just need the decal that says Harley and some don't. And don't start thinking resale value. You buy a pool cue to play pool, you buy a motorcycle to ride, and you buy gold and silver for resale value.

I posted this picture before ... here's my cues ... all 4 of them cost 300 bucks total. That is with 8 ... count em 8 shafts, and joint protectors and ... free shipping. :)

How much am I gonna loose in resale value?
 

Attachments

  • MyCues600.jpg
    MyCues600.jpg
    35 KB · Views: 404
3andstop said:
Your post caught my eye. So .... which moving part in that cheapo McDermott will fail 5 to 10 times in 30 yrs? :scratchhead:

What you say? There are no moving parts in a pool cue! :eek:

Then what the heck fails, the battery? The magnetic charge? I don't get it.

How it is is like this. If you like custom cues ... wonderful. If you have the money to spend on them, even better!

If you think they will make you play better, then they will. No different from a rabbit's foot in your pocket that you believe will bring you luck.

Yes there is real shit wood, yes there are 12 piece cues with grain in the shaft wide enough to slide your credit card through. Let's stipulate that neither of us are talking about those pieces of kindling wood.

A nice tight grained rock maple shaft is a nice rock maple shaft. Aged better with a custom cue you say? Don't you believe it for a minute.

Put yourself in this situation. Your business is providing quality cue shaft blanks to cue makers. You have various makers that buy a dozen or so at a time. They come back to you if they are satisfied.

Now you have McDermott who probably buys hundreds at a time. Who ya gonna be real sure you satisfy?

Sure they are all good quality, from there the ferrule, tip taper are all variables that you can change to your own personal liking.

Now the butt. That's wood too. No magic dust inside, just some metal for weight. Some are slid up higher some have different balance points and weights, this again is nothing more than personal preference.

Custom cues give some that warm fuzzy feeling that can help your game.

Not unlike a Harley Davidson motorcycle vs a high end Yamaha or Honda cruiser. Some people just need the decal that says Harley and some don't. And don't start thinking resale value. You buy a pool cue to play pool, you buy a motorcycle to ride, and you buy gold and silver for resale value.

I posted this picture before ... here's my cues ... all 4 of them cost 300 bucks total. That is with 8 ... count em 8 shafts, and joint protectors and ... free shipping. :)

How much am I gonna loose in resale value?
Click to expand...

One problem when you talk McD's is that they make $35 cues, and $1200+ cues. they aren't all the same. That's like saying Ford makes good cars, they make the festiva and at the same time they make the Ford GT... two worlds apart.

To your cues, sure you won't lose a lot of money, but you also won't lose a lot of money buying a knock off Rolex, for $50 either. You have knock off southwest's there. They don't play like a southwest, I'll guarantee that. (I bought one to try out at one point. Mine was labeled Kaiser.) They are OK cues, but they don't play very well until you retip and retaper them IMO. But to each his own. Still one of the best bargains out there IMO.

I think we can all agree, that it's more the archer than the bow, or the arrow. At the same time, you DO get what you pay for. If you pay for a highly skilled builder, to make you a master piece, that's more than likely what you will get. If you pay for a $50 cue to "get the job done" that's what you will get. At the end of the day, if you are happy with what you have, and you enjoy the game, you win.

I have several expensive and cheap cues. i enjoy them, and the game for what it is. My favorite cue, and the one I play with, is below. It's priceless to me, but the retail price is around $3k when it was commissioned built. I get the most joy out of playing pool when I play with THIS CUE. The cost is irrelevant because it plays so well, and it was completed the same day my son, Roman, was born. I don't care what anyone else thinks, its the best cue in the world TO ME. That is priceless. If you can find the best cue for you, it's tough to put a price on it. Mine is NOT for sale.
 

Attachments

  • Roman 5.jpg
    Roman 5.jpg
    37.5 KB · Views: 399
You make my point .. you may not like the tip or taper but you can fix that for 5 bucks.

I've bought lots of different inexpensive cues over the years. The most undesirable thing I've found that I can't fix is the diameter of the butt. But ... these cues I came across are nothing less that outstanding IMO for feel. I did have to taper the shaft back to 18" and replaced the tip (which really was a very nice layered tip) with a Tiger Emerald tip, which I happen to like.

Custom cues are wonderful, don't get me wrong, but the purpose they serve is more art than anything.

Reinventing the wheel in a small shop doesn't have to turn out any better than mass produced cues with high tech machinery. You might have seen this video clip.

Now that looks like a pretty impressive process and if they didn't put that shamrock on there, a nice italian boy like me might buy one. :)

You can buy a Picasso painting or a paint by number water color painting, neither will make you a better painter. But it is sure more enjoyable to marvel at the artwork of the Picasso not unlike a beautiful custom cue.
 
It all depends

on what you are comfortable with. For some players, a $100 cue is just fine (but, granted most of these do not really know what fine is because they are usually a newbie, and don't have the knowledge enough to really know what is good). Other players may want the $4k Southwest, although I do think some players buy above their head (buy an expensive cue then don't play with it because it is so expensive). Usually in the middle somewhere is where most players decide they want to be.

The $1,000 cue, this is a barometer for getting a good playing cue, and some say anything over a $1,000 is just decoration. Some cuemakers though are true artists, and I love seeing their high-end cues. Most of the time, players only want to see your cue when you beat them, or unless it is a high-end cue.

Arrows do matter, without a good arrow that is straight with feathers on it just right, you would probably not hit the target. Archery was a family thing for me, my paternal grandfather made bows and arrows by hand. When I was 7, I got a bow made of lemonwood, had a 35 lb. pull to it. My big brother got one made out of a 1 piece Oak, had a 50-55 lb. pull to it.

If you are going to compare cars, use something a little more reachable for the average Joe, like a Lexus, not a Mercedes. I was impressed with the quality of my brother's Lexus the first time I rode in it.

Bargains - When you get more than what you payed for - Some Sneaky Petes are this way. A good Sneaky Pete can play as good as a $1,000 cue. If you find one, keep it, you won't be sorry.

So, my advice to new players and enthusiasts, is to inquire and learn about different equipment, and then get what is comfortable for you, whether it cost $40 or $4k. Be happy with your equipment, and that includes your case too. I have 2 friends, one shoots with a r360 Cuetec and is an 11 speed, and the other shoots with a Muecci and has one of the straightest eyes I ever seen in 52 years of playing.
 
Good post sir.
I always said it's the Archer not the arrow...that doesn't mean Johnny can play with a warped arrow....

PS: if you want to sell one of those let me know....really!

3andstop said:
Your post caught my eye. So .... which moving part in that cheapo McDermott will fail 5 to 10 times in 30 yrs? :scratchhead:

What you say? There are no moving parts in a pool cue! :eek:

Then what the heck fails, the battery? The magnetic charge? I don't get it.

How it is is like this. If you like custom cues ... wonderful. If you have the money to spend on them, even better!

If you think they will make you play better, then they will. No different from a rabbit's foot in your pocket that you believe will bring you luck.

Yes there is real shit wood, yes there are 12 piece cues with grain in the shaft wide enough to slide your credit card through. Let's stipulate that neither of us are talking about those pieces of kindling wood.

A nice tight grained rock maple shaft is a nice rock maple shaft. Aged better with a custom cue you say? Don't you believe it for a minute.

Put yourself in this situation. Your business is providing quality cue shaft blanks to cue makers. You have various makers that buy a dozen or so at a time. They come back to you if they are satisfied.

Now you have McDermott who probably buys hundreds at a time. Who ya gonna be real sure you satisfy?

Sure they are all good quality, from there the ferrule, tip taper are all variables that you can change to your own personal liking.

Now the butt. That's wood too. No magic dust inside, just some metal for weight. Some are slid up higher some have different balance points and weights, this again is nothing more than personal preference.

Custom cues give some that warm fuzzy feeling that can help your game.

Not unlike a Harley Davidson motorcycle vs a high end Yamaha or Honda cruiser. Some people just need the decal that says Harley and some don't. And don't start thinking resale value. You buy a pool cue to play pool, you buy a motorcycle to ride, and you buy gold and silver for resale value.

I posted this picture before ... here's my cues ... all 4 of them cost 300 bucks total. That is with 8 ... count em 8 shafts, and joint protectors and ... free shipping. :)

How much am I gonna loose in resale value?
Click to expand...
 
I stopped in at "Two Tooth" Sally's place down in Galveston, several years ago. She was having a two for one sale.
I sure got what I paid for, I can tell you. :smile:
 
My cue is part of me

MahnaMahna said:
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.
Click to expand...

I do think your cue can be much like your car. You chose the car, not just for value, but because you like it's looks...they fit your personality and sort of represent you.

Same for a cue. My old friend, the late Jimmy Scrima said, "There's something about a cue...when you take it out of the case, and enjoy just looking at it...it represents your tastes, and you like others to see it, too."

I buy a cue first because it plays well and is well made, but also because I like it's looks.

Example: I had my best years with a very plain old Meucci sneaky. Currently, one of my favorite cues is a Pechauer curly maple sneaky. It also plays very nicely for me, but it's much prettier than that Meucci. I like to just look at it occasionally, even when I'm not playing!
 
Ive read every post in this thread, and some people seem like they really dislike custom cues. McDermott has way more technology at their disposal than i do or most cuemakers for that matter, but i wonder if some of you guys know what all it takes to make a custom cue? When i first started, i didnt have any idea how precise you have to be. For instance, if i dont indicate my chuck on my lathe to dead zero, then the cue will be off. Just 5 or 10 thousandths of an inch can be enough to make the cue flop like a fish when rolled. Im sure that the production companies are accurate too, but when i make a cue, its personal. Im thinking about the person who is going to use it, and what it will take to make them happy. Some want a 60 inch cue because they are tall. Some want a skinny butt because their hands are small. And theres many more scenarios to mention that i havent had yet, im sure. Custom cues are not just pretty, they are made one at a time and often for one person in particular.

Joe
 
I don't think it's especially new news that you don't need to spend $2500 to be sure you have a cue that isn't holding you back from a career in professional pool.

Most of the big name production cue makers only make maybe 5 or 6 different shafts...and about 150 different butts. The shafts start at maybe $80 and end around $300, But the complete cues run from $100 to $1500 or more. It's all scaled up with a custom cue but I doubt the shaft is more than 20% of the total cost of a high end custom.

Once you have a good shaft mated to a solid butt with a solid joint, the rest is lipstick. ( I know, sounds dirty)

I'll never be convinced a $39 McD cue will hold back a good player, but I also guarantee I could tell it apart from a vintage or even modern Balabuska wearing wool mittens and blindfolded. I agree there is some low price point where the cue has pretty good feel and is within percentage points of the best cues made but in my mind it is a lot closer to $500 than $39.
 
Gentlemen... you miss my point.

So, I will refocus.

Are custom cues worth the money...? Of course they are! Craftsmanship, rarity, materials, history... all these things make the cues we love not only valuable, but invaluable!!!

My point was not that of the "value" of my cheap bang around cue... not even remotely.

My point was that I was I let my cue get in the way of my game. I was too focused on which shaft feels best, and which wood has that perfect pitch, and which tip is the grippiest w/o needing constant grooming and blah blah blah...

My point was that I wanted to remove all trains of thought that led to that... so I bought a super cheap cue and swore to play with it (for a while)... is it going to be the cue I use forever... not a chance lol.

But it helped me ENJOY the game again, and we.should all encourage any new player to charish his equipment, and respect how much you can do with so little...

Thats all I was getting at.

I am in the process.of having one of my custom cues refinished, and after my wife and I get.moved into our new house, I will likely pick up a couple new cues (been wanting a Sly sneaky for a while now, and after talking to Brent, I really want a BHQ too).

So I am not saying stop buying cues, or get rid of the high dollar stuff... im saying love ALL your cues. I put together my first 5 pack with that $39 piece of chinese crap lol


Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2
 
My Kaiser, J&J, and Rhino cues are flying out the door for $35 each thanks to this forum.

Great way to advertise my great hitting cheap cues!:thumbup:
 
poolguy4u said:
My Kaiser, J&J, and Rhino cues are flying out the door for $35 each thanks to this forum.

Great way to advertise my great hitting cheap cues!:thumbup:
Click to expand...

lol glad to help

I still use the Kaiser J/B (with some pretty serious modifications...) but I can honestly say if you use it as a dedicated jump cue... there is nothing better

I cut off 4" on the butt, hollowed butt out (forward balance and much less weight), and changed phenolic ferrule/tip combo to G10

It will jump anything from 1/4" away to a full table.

BEAST MODE!!!
 
I have to say that I take greater pleasure running a rack with an el cheapo cue than an expensive one. It's like "no way you didn't just run out with that POS, oh yes I did!". Lol. On the other hand, I love breaking like a gorrila with my more expensive cues. :cool:

I guess in my mind the cheap cue is not supposed to make balls and the $2k+ cues wear gloves. :grin:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top