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I have to ask: How can all you die hard call-your-shot Eight-Ball players buy into the smash break and the slopped balls on the break. Here is the most important shot in the game and what kind of shot is it? It is a slop shot. Isn't this contrary to to the spirit of the game you believe it to be? I have never gotten a plausible answer.
Not to derail this any more than it has
Wasn't there a time when 8Ball didn't require calling your shot?
I have to ask: How can all you die hard call-your-shot Eight-Ball players buy into the smash break and the slopped balls on the break. Here is the most important shot in the game and what kind of shot is it? It is a slop shot. Isn't this contrary to to the spirit of the game you believe it to be? I have never gotten a plausible answer.
I have to ask: How can all you die hard call-your-shot Eight-Ball players buy into the smash break and the slopped balls on the break. Here is the most important shot in the game and what kind of shot is it? It is a slop shot. Isn't this contrary to to the spirit of the game you believe it to be? I have never gotten a plausible answer.
And to add to this, Darts doesn require calling the shot. And better players still miss their shot and get credit for whatever thy end up hitting.
Darts, like pool, has multiple games, some of which permit slop and some don't.
The better players will always be better. Rules don't change that.
I can't believe this hasn't been brought up, but what about the clusters of balls that have to be dealt with in 8 ball? It is truely a thing a beauty to watch a good 8 ball player navigate through them, bump the balls on the correct side, etc,etc.....With slop rules we can just blast into them and hope for the best? Maybe not many balls are getting slopped in during your tournaments, but the whole dynamic and strategy of the game changes knowing that you can get rewarded for a "hail mary" shot.
Yes. For over 40 years, there wasn't a requirement for calling shots in 8-ball. Probably longer, but I don't know what written rules were out there prior to 1948.
This thread borders on the ridiculous at times. I think posters who have played a significant amount of both styles have the best information.
Consider call-every-detail rules. Why don't we have a barn-raising for those rules? That would eliminate the "I didn't mean it that way, but it went in my pocket" scenario. (And for those that don't get it, I am not an advocate of calling all the details)
Freddie <~~~ easier to run means easier for the better player
OMG, the whole thread was an elaborate setup. Are you Keyser Soze?!
We've all been trapped into admitting no-conflict breaking is best!
Your sig:
Basicly the break has turned into a trick shot. Get the balls where you want them ,hit them here and its dead.
A slop shot is not the same as a trick shot. So which is it?
If it's a trick shot, it's one that's challenging enough that even pros only make it maybe 75%-ish of the time.
But it's true there's slop in it also. You can miss the 'dead' (not really) trick shot and make something else.
The answer (as always) boils down to how much you want to balance 'fairness' with 'fun'.
If pool somehow had 100% fairness, the better player never loses and there's no reason for an APA 6 to play an APA 7.
So, we allow a certain amount of luck to keep it interesting and give the worse player a chance.
The "certain amount" is where we differ.
Yeah but the better player won't always win, and knowing you're better isn't much solace if your opponent's
slop knocks you out of the tournament. In fact it might make it worse.
Yup, he already mentioned his tournament changed and players shot more for slop.
Somewhere there's a bunch of amateur players who have cashed using a 'blaster' shot,
and have decided that's the correct way to play pool.
... Sure, with good players, slop has very little affect on the player while he/she is controlling the table. But it DOES have an affect when he/she is NOT at the table, and the "luck evens out" thing has very little consolation value when one slopped shot meant the difference between winning or losing that crucial match.
I agree, Sean. I've said something similar many times in threads about slop vs. call shot. Here's a piece of it again: "People often argue that "luck evens out," or winning on a lucky shot, such as a slop-in, is so rare among top players that we shouldn't worry about it. Well, luck may even out over a lifetime, but it need not do so in any given match or tournament. And it's the rareness of the lucky shot that makes it so much more critical. If it happened every second shot, then both players in a match would benefit and suffer fairly equally. But when it happens only rarely, it becomes enormous and can really mean the difference between winning and losing."
..Oh well. I dunno why I argue with you, you decide ahead of time what you think is best for pool,
then WITHOUT FAIL say "I tried it in my tournament and it was a smashing success and
everyone loved it and it never caused a problem"...
I am just curious, what prompted the idea of not calling balls in these tournaments? Was it based on APA rules, or did many players come to you and say "I really think we should just sh*t the balls in the entire time, it will be more fun." Also, what other rules do you play by or is basically BCA rules minus the called shot? Though I firmlly disagree with no called shots, especially the 8 WTF, I would have to say the worst thing is keep what you make after the break, that thoroughly screws up the game of 8 ball.
8-ball started as a no-call game. Start there.I am just curious, what prompted the idea of not calling balls in these tournaments? Was it based on APA rules, or did many players come to you and say "I really think we should just sh*t the balls in the entire time, it will be more fun." Also, what other rules do you play by or is basically BCA rules minus the called shot? Though I firmlly disagree with no called shots, especially the 8 WTF, I would have to say the worst thing is keep what you make after the break, that thoroughly screws up the game of 8 ball.
Larry Hubbart's success makes a good case for not calling balls in Eight-Ball. The rules have the broadest appeal.
If you played ten thousand games of no calll versus call, how many do you think you'd lose due to a slopped ball versus how many you'd lose due to a lucky leave by your opponent?Sure, with good players, slop has very little affect on the player while he/she is controlling the table. But it DOES have an affect when he/she is NOT at the table, and the "luck evens out" thing has very little consolation value when one slopped shot meant the difference between winning or losing that crucial match.