When you say ball in hand, you mean ball in hand from the kitchen, right? or ball in hand anywhere?
Ray
Proposed TAR - TOI VS NO AIMING SYSTEM
- Thread starter HawaiianEye
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When you say ball in hand, you mean ball in hand from the kitchen, right? or ball in hand anywhere?
Ray
Two foul as I know it is ball in hand ANYWHERE after the second foul.
One aspect of this is the following scenario. A person scratches - so it's ball in hand in the kitchen, if the lowest numbered ball is in the kitchen it spots. The incoming player can hand the shot back or take it. If they take it they can play safe and the other guy is on one. At this point he cannot roll out or deliberately foul which is all that a push is. This comes up all the time in two foul nine ball.
One aspect of this is the following scenario. A person scratches - so it's ball in hand in the kitchen, if the lowest numbered ball is in the kitchen it spots. The incoming player can hand the shot back or take it. If they take it they can play safe and the other guy is on one. At this point he cannot roll out or deliberately foul which is all that a push is. This comes up all the time in two foul nine ball.
"two fouls by the same player," instead of "two consecutive fouls".
You have the first part right, but what you're describing is playing different, it's "two fouls by the same player," instead of "two consecutive fouls".....there's a difference, because you can actually re roll out playing this way, the other way you can't.
You have the first part right, but what you're describing is playing different, it's "two fouls by the same player," instead of "two consecutive fouls".....there's a difference, because you can actually re roll out playing this way, the other way you can't.
While everyone is asleep, I'll sneak in and sprinkle some geek dust on the thread 
Good advice circa 1850
Which reminds me of a good hypothetical question for you to discuss with yourself, the next time you and yourself are having a conversation.
Assuming you could crack open a rack and run all 15 into the corner, it doesnt mean that you'd actually crack it open like that in a real game, and risk handing your opponent an easy win, would you?
How about if you had 10k worth of lunch money riding on it, would you have the nuts to crack it open and try?
Good advice circa 1850
Which reminds me of a good hypothetical question for you to discuss with yourself, the next time you and yourself are having a conversation.
Assuming you could crack open a rack and run all 15 into the corner, it doesnt mean that you'd actually crack it open like that in a real game, and risk handing your opponent an easy win, would you?
How about if you had 10k worth of lunch money riding on it, would you have the nuts to crack it open and try?
In a real game everyone generally breaks safe
In a real game everyone generally breaks safe because it's very difficult to make one in your pocket consistently.....so yes, the risk of handing over an easy run is high.
While everyone is asleep, I'll sneak in and sprinkle some geek dust on the thread
View attachment 298866
Good advice circa 1850
Which reminds me of a good hypothetical question for you to discuss with yourself, the next time you and yourself are having a conversation.
Assuming you could crack open a rack and run all 15 into the corner, it doesnt mean that you'd actually crack it open like that in a real game, and risk handing your opponent an easy win, would you?
How about if you had 10k worth of lunch money riding on it, would you have the nuts to crack it open and try?
In a real game everyone generally breaks safe because it's very difficult to make one in your pocket consistently.....so yes, the risk of handing over an easy run is high.
While everyone is asleep, I'll sneak in and sprinkle some geek dust on the thread
View attachment 298866
Good advice circa 1850
Which reminds me of a good hypothetical question for you to discuss with yourself, the next time you and yourself are having a conversation.
Assuming you could crack open a rack and run all 15 into the corner, it doesnt mean that you'd actually crack it open like that in a real game, and risk handing your opponent an easy win, would you?
How about if you had 10k worth of lunch money riding on it, would you have the nuts to crack it open and try?
Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSSFIeb3lA4
I'm glad someone finally pointed out, the emboldened above !..No one, not even John Barton, got that right ! ,..I'm not even sure our resident 'expert' has brought that point up yet, to the unenlightened masses !..
In the days when 2 shot fouls were the accepted rules, there was "NEVER ball in hand ANYWHERE on the table" !..In ALL cases, the incoming player (the recipient of the foul) had to shoot from the kitchen ! (HUGE game changer !)
However, this did NOT make the strategies that much different, as 'some' are insisting !.. All 'smart' players knew these strategie's !..If for instance, the next object ball, happened to be hanging in the jaws, leaving no safe place to roll out (when hooked) and no way to kick at it, the most common strategy, was to try and tie up a ball or two, thereby making the run-out more difficult for the incoming player !
As I said before, ALL decent, 'smart players' knew this, it wasn't 'rocket science' !..This is where claiming that there were 'thousands' of SECRET strategies, flies in the face of common sense !..This is why 9/10 ball, was always just a simple "paint by the numbers" rotation game, with either set of rules !..Unlike one pocket, the best shot-maker, ALWAYS had the best of it !
This is also why One Pocket, will always be a MUCH more difficult game to master, than 9 ball !..To insist otherwise is, well, "LUDICROUS" !
SJD
PS..But then ALL smart, 'well-rounded' player's, already concede that very obvious point !..Some STILL insist on trying to make it APPEAR like a real mystery !..
Recent photo of our resident 'expert'(s)
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1 rack is proving difficult. I have tried for an hour and made 10 about 6 times.
I WILL run an entire rack - likely not tonight but I will
Gerry, since you have tried this can you elaborate on what happened when you got to 10 a few times? Was it just the difficult part of getting shape on odd placed balls, or did you just miss the shot (or a combo of the two)?
Also, CJ in regards to the shooting full rack in one pocket...if you break and have a ball hanging literally in say the side pocket do you shoot it and spot it or just start over since there is no way to shoot it in your one pocket you choose?
Best I did was 11. I was left with pretty tough shots or balls frozen. I can upload a couple of attempts. I think I can do it but the break is critical - don't want too many balls up table.
The break is critical. There's the one in the vid. And IIRC from the DCC there's another one where you use high inside english and bring the CB three rails around the table.
Lou Figueroa
You shoot your break shot with outside english instead of inside english to get on top of the stack.
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So I've spent the last couple of days playing Virtual Pool 4 on my PC. You can play 9ball with the old push out rules. I can now give a somewhat informed opinion of the game, and say that I really like it.
But I honestly don't think it would do well for TV or your average viewing audience. However, for gambling purposes and play at the pro level, it should be the way to go. Anyone that gambles on 9ball would be doing themselves a huge favor by learning this game. Especially if they think they have an edge, as it just increases.
But I honestly don't think it would do well for TV or your average viewing audience. However, for gambling purposes and play at the pro level, it should be the way to go. Anyone that gambles on 9ball would be doing themselves a huge favor by learning this game. Especially if they think they have an edge, as it just increases.
Either of these will work. The high-inside will definitely bring the cue ball three rails to get on top of the stack, as long as you hit it hard enough to bring it back off the head rail (assuming a classic one pocket break target between the head and second row of balls, that would be foot rail, near-side long rail, and then head rail). The problem is you don't want to hit this so hard that too many balls leak up table.
The outside english works best when you hit the head ball fairly full, because the cue ball squirts over to the long rail, and then spins out to the middle of the table. A medium hit works here.
Personally, I like the former, because it more resembles the classic one pocket break -- you just hit it a little harder.
The break that CJ used looks like either a center-ball hit, or else his "TOI" approach -- but no follow. Rationale: watch the cue ball -- it hits the long rail first (not the foot rail), and then spins into the foot rail and out through the middle of the rack area.
As mentioned, my personal best is a 15-and-out (one rack), but using the classic one pocket break hit with "game" speed (i.e. the classic safety break), and then chipping balls away from the rack straight-pool-style. I'd never tried this just blasting the rack as CJ is doing. But I can see the benefit of this approach, as it exercises your ball-pocketing and cue ball positioning skills, at the expense of selling the farm in a real game. (To me, practicing the break when you practice one pocket is a CRUCIAL thing, as it's the pivotal shot in one pocket that determines if you sell out a ball on the break or not.)
However, I'll definitely have to try this.
-Sean
You're basing your opinion on Virtual Pool?
Only one thing to say to that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDzcRlLDnmo
The problem with the high-inside is that you tend to hit the rack too hard, moving balls away from where they need to be. If you try both, you'll see one is highly repeatable and the other is chancy. If people were breaking that way at the DCC, they're probably super-mega talented at banking and making everything they shoot at -- basically doing well with pure retard-strength. Like CJ, I have to thank Allen as well for teaching me how to setup your run in 1-hole.
John:
That was many years ago. Ask Corey about that breakshot now. You'll see he never uses it anymore (witness his matches in recent DCC and Tunica events as evidence), because he'd lost more games with that break than he'd won.
At first, this break confused his opponents, and even when he (Corey) would sell-out a ball, his opponents wouldn't get out, because they'd be too cavalier in thinking they'd be out and miss a shot. (If you miss your opportunity and give back a shooter like Corey an open rack like that, it's all over.) But the newness and confusion factor of that break quickly wore off, and Corey henceforth lost a lot of matches using it.
-Sean