To all maker's of cues-> Question

[danieldakota53]

In another thread I posted some thoughts on an issue, here is my question to all who build cues. Once you learn the basics of cue making, and I mean learn it, basic true fit,flat facing, no glue filling voids cue making, what makes one cue any different from another, maker to maker, taking out fancy inlays, jewelry so to speak, or fancy rings? Solid is solid correct? Besides the sales pitches of special technics,original fancy ring work, NAME(kind of like nike versus no name brand-> not known) what truly makes one cue better than another at this level? I know this will ignite all kinds of theories and comments, but I have wondered for years, what makes your cue better in playability and functionality than any of your competition? If you take all the fancy stuff out, which I know many maker's can't/won't do, what makes a cue better from a to brand z?

 

[seahorse1877]

I think the main thing that sets cues apart from similarly constructed cues is the wood. Aged and seasoned wood is going to be a big factor over kiln-dried newer wood in my opinion, but I'm not that good at this cue making thing anyway:smile:

 

[Brickcues]

All construction is not the same nor are tapers. Some core cues, some use big pins made out of brass or stainless steel or even glass. Joint style also plays a part, flat face wood to wood, steel joint or even ivory. All of these things effect the way a cue will feel and act when striking a ball.

What it really boils down to is what the person buying the cue likes. One person might play with your cue and they don't like how it plays. The next person plays with the same cue and it's the best cue they ever played with.

Myself, I like wood to wood and don't like steel jointed cues. To me the steel joint just does not have the feel or feedback that I like in a cue when I strike the cue ball. It seems dead to me and that is just me. Other people love steel jointed cues and cannot stand anything else. I also make my cues with a stiff taper as that is how I like it. Other cue makers make shafts with a 6,9,12 or even 14 inch pro taper. These tapers effect how a cue plays.

So what makes a difference in playability from brand A to Z, all the above and then some.

 

[cueman]

Construction methods, glues used, type and thickness of finish, tapers, wood selection, joint pin type and joint diameter all affect the hit of the cue. That is why great cuemakers all make cues that play differently.

 

[Mcues]

Once you have all the basics, the adjustments begin in order to make the kind of cue that YOU have found to be best. A lifetime maybe.
The hope is that others will like it. Truth is, some will, and some won't.

Mario

 

[patrickcues]

In another thread I posted some thoughts on an issue, here is my question to all who build cues. Once you learn the basics of cue making, and I mean learn it, basic true fit,flat facing, no glue filling voids cue making, what makes one cue any different from another, maker to maker, taking out fancy inlays, jewelry so to speak, or fancy rings? Solid is solid correct? Besides the sales pitches of special technics,original fancy ring work, NAME(kind of like nike versus no name brand-> not known) what truly makes one cue better than another at this level? I know this will ignite all kinds of theories and comments, but I have wondered for years, what makes your cue better in playability and functionality than any of your competition? If you take all the fancy stuff out, which I know many maker's can't/won't do, what makes a cue better from a to brand z?

Its real simple. Its how the cue is built that makes all the difference! Everyone has there own method of building cues. Once you get to a certain point. Your paying for looks!

 

[danieldakota53]

i see some get it, some not quite. If you are a talented cue maker, not necessarily a high end cue maker, but you know how to build a cue the right way, you will definitely have the knowledge to build a cue any way you want. So, sure maker's have different tapers, can use different materials in certain areas of the cue, have different ways of finishing, which i do not agree it makes the cue play better because it's shiny! But down to brass tax, what makes one cue, once at the level of say, you got it down time after time, better and worth so much more than others? I want to hear from cue maker's that are not afraid of stating the facts of what makes their cues worth or THE ONE to buy. I think it's a name game,the crowd you happen to impress, and who you know. Tell me cue maker's, show me to think another way of thinking by your responses.

 

[aphelps1]

'Twas battered and scarred,
And the auctioneer thought it
hardly worth his while
To waste his time on the old violin,
but he held it up with a smile.

"What am I bid, good people", he cried,
"Who starts the bidding for me?"
"One dollar, one dollar, Do I hear two?"
"Two dollars, who makes it three?"
"Three dollars once, three dollars twice, going for three,"

But, No,
From the room far back a gray bearded man
Came forward and picked up the bow,
Then wiping the dust from the old violin
And tightening up the strings,
He played a melody, pure and sweet
As sweet as the angel sings.

The music ceased and the auctioneer
With a voice that was quiet and low,
Said "What now am I bid for this old violin?"
As he held it aloft with its' bow.

"One thousand, one thousand, Do I hear two?"
"Two thousand, Who makes it three?"
"Three thousand once, three thousand twice,
Going and gone", said he.

The audience cheered,
But some of them cried,
"We just don't understand."
"What changed its' worth?"
Swift came the reply.
"The Touch of the Masters Hand."

 

[Paul Dayton]

You just have to pick it up and play with it and if at that point you don't know, you don't matter.

 

[danieldakota53]

You just have to pick it up and play with it and if at that point you don't know, you don't matter.

ok, nonsense alluding a real question. I would guess blindfolded, a cuemaker couldn't pick his own cue that he swears he spends so much time perfecting HIS hit and HIS playability out of a group of 5 cues,only 1 being his! Any takers?

 

[danieldakota53]

and don't get me wrong Mr. Dayton, I have shot with many of your cues before and they performed just as they should.

 

[patrickcues]

i see some get it, some not quite. If you are a talented cue maker, not necessarily a high end cue maker, but you know how to build a cue the right way, you will definitely have the knowledge to build a cue any way you want. So, sure maker's have different tapers, can use different materials in certain areas of the cue, have different ways of finishing, which i do not agree it makes the cue play better because it's shiny! But down to brass tax, what makes one cue, once at the level of say, you got it down time after time, better and worth so much more than others? I want to hear from cue maker's that are not afraid of stating the facts of what makes their cues worth or THE ONE to buy. I think it's a name game,the crowd you happen to impress, and who you know. Tell me cue maker's, show me to think another way of thinking by your responses.

Since you worded it like that. That is even easier. You are paying for the name on the cue. I will give you a example. I built a Ivory butterfly cue 4 point of Ivory with veneers 4 ivory butterflies with veneers.. In the forearm and butt sleeve. Ivory joint and butt cap. I was talking to another builder and I asked him what this cue would sell for. He said $6500.00. it sold for way less than that. because of the name. Nothing more than that. The work is every bit as good . The finish is as good. The cue played really good. The only difference was the name on it.


One thing I have always said when I got into building cues was I am going to keep it affordable for the players. And I do. Just for the record some will not like this and others will. I think that there is a lot of cue builders out there that is way over priced. Then there is some that is priced under priced also. And I am sure that I will get blasted for that comment. But it is the truth.

 

[danieldakota53]

Construction methods, glues used, type and thickness of finish, tapers, wood selection, joint pin type and joint diameter all affect the hit of the cue. That is why great cuemakers all make cues that play differently.

As much knowledge as I know you have and have shared over the years Chris, I will have to disagree with most here. If someone is at that level to where his technics are solid, he knows all this you are stating, but I also disagree because most of this is due to the builder themselves personal preference of his own likes and dislikes, not necessarily what makes that cue a great hitter to the masses. It's because it's what he prefers to see the cues construction designed like. Because most "top level" makers will not change the specs on their cue designs for customers. They are to set in their ways. And yes these all do effect the way a cue plays, qualified cue maker's are well aware of what finish,pin,joint size, and so on to use in what situations. But most chose to do it their way, well because, it's their way.

 

[aphelps1]

Doug,
I for one have no problem with your comments. We live in a free economy, and we charge what the market will bear, or what we feel is fair. The market is the judge and jury. It's as simple as that.

Alan

 

[danieldakota53]

Since you worded it like that. That is even easier. You are paying for the name on the cue. I will give you a example. I built a Ivory butterfly cue 4 point of Ivory with veneers 4 ivory butterflies with veneers.. In the forearm and butt sleeve. Ivory joint and butt cap. I was talking to another builder and I asked him what this cue would sell for. He said $6500.00. it sold for way less than that. because of the name. Nothing more than that. The work is every bit as good . The finish is as good. The cue played really good. The only difference was the name on it.


One thing I have always said when I got into building cues was I am going to keep it affordable for the players. And I do. Just for the record some will not like this and others will. I think that there is a lot of cue builders out there that is way over priced. Then there is some that is priced under priced also. And I am sure that I will get blasted for that comment. But it is the truth.

Sir my hat is off to you, honestly. You get it, and I have also played with your cues, and looked them over in detail. You make a fine example of exactly my point in this thread. Your cues look amazing, play amazing, and perform as they should , but for a very reasonable price compared to , and I will honest here, other more notarized cue makers that their quality was not there,nor their playability. But the name sure was popular . Thank you for what you do and how well you do it.

 

[patrickcues]

Sir my hat is off to you, honestly. You get it, and I have also played with your cues, and looked them over in detail. You make a fine example of exactly my point in this thread. Your cues look amazing, play amazing, and perform as they should , but for a very reasonable price compared to , and I will honest here, other more notarized cue makers that their quality was not there,nor their playability. But the name sure was popular . Thank you for what you do and how well you do it.

Thank You!!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Since you worded it like that. That is even easier. You are paying for the name on the cue. I will give you a example. I built a Ivory butterfly cue 4 point of Ivory with veneers 4 ivory butterflies with veneers.. In the forearm and butt sleeve. Ivory joint and butt cap. I was talking to another builder and I asked him what this cue would sell for. He said $6500.00. it sold for way less than that. because of the name. Nothing more than that. The work is every bit as good . The finish is as good. The cue played really good. The only difference was the name on it.


One thing I have always said when I got into building cues was I am going to keep it affordable for the players. And I do. Just for the record some will not like this and others will. I think that there is a lot of cue builders out there that is way over priced. Then there is some that is priced under priced also. And I am sure that I will get blasted for that comment. But it is the truth.

Would you charge $6500 if you knew the buyer could easily flip it for $7500 as soon as he got the cue?

ALMOST ALL MAKERS THINK their cues play as nice or better than the others.
But, somehow only few command high dollar.
The " name " is built slowly one customer at a time.
If the cues keep getting flipped for higher than original price, the maker would be dumb not to raise his price. Cue flippers will keep ringing his phone with sob or nice stories. But, the real intent is to profit from the makers' low price.
It's a fact in this industry.
Someday maybe another maker would think YOUR price too high too.

 

[patrickcues]

Would you charge $6500 if you knew the buyer could easily flip it for $7500 as soon as he got the cue?

ALMOST ALL MAKERS THINK their cues play as nice or better than the others.
But, somehow only few command high dollar.
The " name " is built slowly one customer at a time.
If the cues keep getting flipped for higher than original price, the maker would be dumb not to raise his price. Cue flippers will keep ringing his phone with sob or nice stories. But, the real intent is to profit from the makers' low price.
It's a fact in this industry.
Someday maybe another maker would think YOUR price too high too.

Joey:

I charge for my cues what I feel is fair for me and the customer. If someone can buy a cue of mine and flip it and make money which has happened good for them. I have raised prices over the years along with inflation I / we have too. I will be a little more specific in what I am referring to. I build a Cocobolo forearm and butt sleeve. Put matching ring work in all places with 1 shaft. Linen wrap. and it sells for $600. and some of these other guys no pund intended here at all. sell the same exact cue for over $1500.00 Thats just a little over inflated IMO. As we all know how a cue plays is in the hands of the holder. We all have opinions.

I have been building cues for over 18 years. I have a lot of repeat customers. A lot of new ones. As most of us do. I have never been one to do something just because I could. Like I said before, some will like what I said and some wont. And that is ok. I also dont have any hard feeling to anyone that gets that kind of money for there cues. I was only expressing my opinion on what the original OP was asking.

Oh one other thing. I know that where some one lives also makes some difference in price. Cost of living is higher for some than others.. You being out on the west coast has a higher cost of living then I do here in Kansas. Probably the same with east cost not quit as high there.

 

[owll]

As much knowledge as I know you have and have shared over the years Chris, I will have to disagree with most here. If someone is at that level to where his technics are solid, he knows all this you are stating, but I also disagree because most of this is due to the builder themselves personal preference of his own likes and dislikes, not necessarily what makes that cue a great hitter to the masses. It's because it's what he prefers to see the cues construction designed like. Because most "top level" makers will not change the specs on their cue designs for customers. They are to set in their ways. And yes these all do effect the way a cue plays, qualified cue maker's are well aware of what finish,pin,joint size, and so on to use in what situations. But most chose to do it their way, well because, it's their way.

might be, that they dont want to make any substantial changes to construction, because they build a cue that has a distintive hit to it, and they dont want to change that AND put their name on it. Those are people that have spent a long time, figuring out how they want to build their cues, and spent a long time building a business and name to go with it....If i was them, id be hesitant to make changes also...if you like the way their cue hits, buy one...if not, find a cue brand you do like, and buy that one.

 

[cueman]

As much knowledge as I know you have and have shared over the years Chris, I will have to disagree with most here. If someone is at that level to where his technics are solid, he knows all this you are stating, but I also disagree because most of this is due to the builder themselves personal preference of his own likes and dislikes, not necessarily what makes that cue a great hitter to the masses. It's because it's what he prefers to see the cues construction designed like. Because most "top level" makers will not change the specs on their cue designs for customers. They are to set in their ways. And yes these all do effect the way a cue plays, qualified cue maker's are well aware of what finish,pin,joint size, and so on to use in what situations. But most chose to do it their way, well because, it's their way.

I gave you the answer of what makes a cue play different. I did not say the top name or lower name cue plays better. All I said was what makes cues play different. It is true that some of the top name cues do not play any better than some of the lessor known. But even with that being said which plays best is still up to the players and no cue plays the best everyone.