Playing balls down the rail

AlexandruM

AlexandruM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How do you play this type of shots?

I used TOI for these shots, but observed that many players use outside English, is it better or more natural?
For that shots when I need draw eg. I use center to edge, apply TOI and then pivot a bit for outside, it seems to work better then clear TOI.

Any tips?

Here is the diagram.
hrzg.jpg
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I don't think there can be only one way to do it.

If it is the only ball on the table, I'd use a tad of side spin and top, inside or outside is decided by whether the time is an even or odd minute.

Seriously though, you gotta go with what you know.
 
I hit the ball at the contact point using the english needed to get position on the next ball... essentially I do the same thing I do on every shot.

If it was the last ball on the table, I would strike it with low outside for the sake of comfort provided thats not gonna send me into a pocket.
 
I assume you are talking about balls that are frozen to the rail. If so, the best tip I've heard is to aim to hit the rail just slightly before the ball. We're talking just a millimeter or two difference, so when you hit it right it's hard to tell which one you actually hit first, but it did seem to work for me.

Aaron
 
What english you use doesn't really matter, just give it speed. These shots are missed often because players try to baby it in and the contact throw just dumps it into the rail.
 
AlexandruM said:
How do you play this type of shots?

I used TOI for these shots, but observed that many players use outside English, is it better or more natural?
For that shots when I need draw eg. I use center to edge, apply TOI and then pivot a bit for outside, it seems to work better then clear TOI.

Any tips?

Here is the diagram.
hrzg.jpg
[/URL]
Click to expand...

Center ball if I'm just trying to make it.
 
For the unlabelled cueball, playing the 1, a "touch" of inside will put the cueball in the opposite side pocket. Play more than just a touch or center ball and remember with inside spin the 1 will naturally go toward the short-rail side of the pocket so adjust your aim.

Cueball A: TOI is fine. Top and more than a touch is flirting with the opposite corner.

Cueball B: Top and TOI. 9-ball will also want to pull toward the short rail unless you correct your aim.

All of these could be done with low and outside but cueball A can go into the opposite side.
 
I agree with this. Sidespin should be used primarily for positioning the CB for the next shot. The OP has not placed the OB's in the diagram on the rail, and makes no mention of it, so it is assumed that the shots are as diagrammed. They are all steep cuts, in the 50-70 degree range, so there will be no "cling" (collision-induced throw), which is why players use outside english on some shots like this...only much smaller angles, and lower speeds (as Masayoshi mentioned). Now if the OB's are supposed to be frozen to the rail, you would almost always use inside spin, hitting the rail first, slightly before contact with the OB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

peteypooldude said:
Center ball if I'm just trying to make it.
Click to expand...
 
Most of the pool world doesn't use CTE or TOI so of course you're gonna see other people
hit this shot differently than you do. But as long as the ball goes in consistently, I wouldn't sweat it.

If you miss it more than you'd like... or you have trouble playing this shot and getting shape,
then you might wanna reconsider those shooting methods.

If you think about it, this shot is actually really easy (as diagrammed).
Usually when I shoot a cut, I imagine the line that my ball takes to the pocket.
But for this shot, there's no need to 'imagine' it, the rail itself is a visible line to the pocket.
So you don't need to look at the hole. Just cut the ball until it will move parallel to the rail.

If it actually moves parallel, it should hit the outside titty and bump into the pocket...
like you drew the 1 ball shot.

There's often a little collision induced throw (good observation by Masayoshi).
So then the ball cuts towards the rail a hair. But it still should go in... like you drew the 9 ball shot.

So for me, the #1 thing is to aim to run the object ball parallel to the rail. Get out of the habit
of allowing it to brush the rail on the way in. Aim to hit the outer titty on all these rail cuts.
Then I adjust for spin if I need to play shape. If I just want to cinch the ball, a little above center, and firm speed.
 
AlexandruM said:
How do you play this type of shots? ...
Click to expand...

You need to be prepared to make shots like this all different ways, obviously.

If you are looking for the best way for you if it is the last ball on the table, I suggest that you set the shot up as a progressive practice, do sets of the shot trying different spins, and see which kind of spin allows you to make the longest (toughest) shots. Here is how progressive practice works: http://www.sfbilliards.com/basics.pdf
See pages 13-14 and the following pages. That should allow you to construct your own drills.
 
Scott Lee said:
I agree with this. Sidespin should be used primarily for positioning the CB for the next shot. The OP has not placed the OB's in the diagram on the rail, and makes no mention of it, so it is assumed that the shots are as diagrammed. They are all steep cuts, in the 50-70 degree range, so there will be no "cling" (collision-induced throw), which is why players use outside english on some shots like this...only much smaller angles, and lower speeds (as Masayoshi mentioned). Now if the OB's are supposed to be frozen to the rail, you would almost always use inside spin, hitting the rail first, slightly before contact with the OB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
What degree range creates the need for side spin to counter the effect of CIT?
 
1ab...Typically 30 or less...and slow speed. Those are the shots where cling is most likely to occur. If you shoot harder there will be no cling anyway...even on the smaller angle cuts. Naturally table conditions, humidity, and dirty cloth/balls can contribute as well.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

1ab said:
What degree range creates the need for side spin to counter the effect of CIT?
Click to expand...
 
There is No simple answer to your question with out knowing the score of the match and my opponents skill level. When I look at the table layout you posted, I always first determine where the cueball NATURALLY will go when I make the shot with NOTHING on the cue ball/except a 12 o'clock high roller. As I add more factors into the shot, my % of making this ball decrease. Through years of play, the current level I'm playing at, will determine if and what I do. This particular shot, if I commit to the results you have shown, either left or some draw was applied.

This shot I would hit firm/medium speed and go 4 rails back/forth/side to side and end up straight in on the 5. I like slicing this ball using speed and the natural cut angle to Create my shape. At my level this shot I Only think about speed, because the natural goes four rails cross side with no chance of scratching, if you make the shot in this manner. So all ya got to worry about is....Speed of cue ball. Remember, the more speed added to a shot like this, the thicker one must hit the obj. ball. Your layout shows Three difficult shots. The shot I prefer I would only have to make One difficult shot with the correct speed.
 
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AlexandruM said:
How do you play this type of shots?

I used TOI for these shots, but observed that many players use outside English, is it better or more natural?
For that shots when I need draw eg. I use center to edge, apply TOI and then pivot a bit for outside, it seems to work better then clear TOI.

Any tips?

It depends on where you want the cue ball after you make the shot. That is the primary determinant to me. If it is the money ball and shape nor a scratch thereafter is not a consideration, then I tend to use center ball, I.E. no english. Removing english from the equation removes one more variable that you must factor into the shot, thus making it easier IMO.

In a nut shell, practice shooting this shot with with all manors of english and without, as you will need all of these tools throughout your playing career.
Click to expand...
 
No matter which direction I'm shooting this shot, assuming this is the last ball and position isn't a concern, I don't like crossing the side-pockets. I want that cue-ball rebounding off that rail predictably and safely. If it's an uber-thin cut and I have to hammer it, I might use a little inside to create that perfect right-angle. If it's a long shot and not that thin, I might use a little bottom-outside to kill the speed.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
No matter which direction I'm shooting this shot, assuming this is the last ball and position isn't a concern, I don't like crossing the side-pockets. I want that cue-ball rebounding off that rail predictably and safely. If it's an uber-thin cut and I have to hammer it, I might use a little inside to create that perfect right-angle. If it's a long shot and not that thin, I might use a little bottom-outside to kill the speed.
Click to expand...

I agree with Jude. I want my cue ball's path to never cross a pocket no matter how far the cue ball travels. So I want the cue ball to travel on basically a 90 degree angle for each of these shots. My cueing location follows from that.
 
learn with center ball for when you must just pocket it. then outside low. as most times you will want the cueball going back towards the other side of the table as thats where you most likely have to be. and the times you need to go down table you have too much angle to get the cueball far down and still make the ball enough times.
 
If you are a TOI user, then yes, you would be hitting these three shots with a touch of inside, as you would be pretty much every other shot.

For everyone else, the most accurate way to make these balls is on the center axis and using either follow or draw. A slower speed stun shot would be the worst as it would tend to "grab" the balls the most and has the potential to cause the maximum collision induced throw. I would use a nice rolling ball on all of these and keep my speed up a little, not hard just a nice smooth stroke, don't baby it. I would only use english as needed for position or to avoid a scratch. I might use just a "touch" of inside (funny) to make sure the cue ball traveled in a more straight line across the table - but then that's sort of a positional requirement as well. To just make it, no worries about scratching etc. - a smooth rolling ball.

You get collision induced throw on any cut shot, but it becomes more noticeable and potentially causes issues as you increase from 10/15 degrees (3/4 ball hit) up to around 50 or 60 degrees, where except for slow shots it drops down to a manageable level again. The worst is right around 30 degrees (half ball hit), so you really need to keep your speed up a bit and/or use a touch of outside english to counteract the gearing effect. When you use inside english, you aren't so much counteracting the effect as achieving a thinner hit because of the deflection, which results in compensating for the cling effect in another way.

Scott
 
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