Article by Badi Nazhat

Here's my little 'primer' for pro pool's success for what it\s worth. First of all the BCA should have spent the last twenty years making pool/billiards into an interscholastic sport, instead of fighting a losing battle to get it into the Olympics. I mean it's a total 'no-brainer' for all of them to sell more equipment, and make more money. How they dropped that ball is anyone's guess. I mean come on, they have field hockey, water polo, chess, badminton and cheer leading teams competing in high schools all across the country, and often at great expense to the school. A pool team requires no expensive equipment or uniforms, no large playing field (a vacant classroom is big enough), and one coach is adequate. Plus kids of all ages love to play the game. HELLO!

This has been done successfully in a relatively few school districts already in California, Pennsylvania and Texas with zero support from the BCA. Can you imagine kids growing up playing pool? And why not is all I have to say!

Poker became popular on TV for two reasons, BIG money and being able to see the player's hole cards! And there you have it. There is inherently NOTHING wrong with our game that needs fixing. It's a great test of skill just the way it is. If there was a tour with a regular series of televised events (any network is okay - High Stakes Poker started out on the Travel Channel. ESPN is NOT the only game in town!) and serious prize money to be won (maybe 500K total with 100K to the winner) people would watch! That is my contention until proven wrong. Of course to do this takes backing ($$$$) and to date we've seen little of that, other than a brief moment with Trudough. When the BCA was flush with money they dropped the ball here too. They could have funded a twelve event tour for 2M and failed to do so.

What any television network wants is continuity for a full 'Season', not just a single event. IF someone could create a true "Tour" of professional pool tournaments I believe a television network would be interested. Of course having sponsors attached to it is a prerequisite as well. Like someone else said on here, Pool is a sport that could be owned by anyone who has deep pockets, just like Paul Allen who took over the pro bowling tour.

Best of all, if there ever was a true pro pool tour, the sport would grow by leaps and bounds. Kids (you know, the ones who started out playing in high school!) would have a reason to pursue playing pool as adults. It would be a career opportunity, just like being a golfer or a tennis player. It's not a magic formula, seems to work pretty well for other sports. And PLEASE don't tell me about pool's bad image. That's so much horseshit! Pool's image is just fine, with myriad celebrities and wealthy people owning pool tables in their homes and nearly everyone having tons of respect for the ability of the game's top players. I've seen this first hand for myself.
 
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stevelomako said:
Badi got upset and pulled the plug after only 2 tournaments in the United States.

He could/can get as much help as he would want.




Where is/was all the support for guys like?:

Greg Sullivan

Allen Hopkins

Mark Griffin

Grady Mathews

Mike Zuglan

Tommy Kennedy

Mike Janis

Shannon Daulton

and countless others that do/did tournaments and keep trying to do them, without blaming others when they don't meet their expectations.

When these guys had a problem they just said "Well that didn't work out" and pulled their big boy pants up and just moved on to the next one.



Who deserves the most respect???
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Some on your list did so without much risk (financially) or it is very minimal at best. Others would be in Badi's class.
 
Well Said Jay

Here's my little 'primer' for pro pool's success for what it\s worth. First of all the BCA should have spent the last twenty years making pool/billiards into an interscholastic sport, instead of fighting a losing battle to get it into the Olympics. I mean it's a total 'no-brainer' for all of them to sell more equipment, and make more money. How they dropped that ball is anyone's guess. I mean come on, they have field hockey, water polo, chess, badminton and cheer leading teams competing in high schools all across the country, and often at great expense to the school. A pool team requires no expensive equipment or uniforms, no large playing field (a vacant classroom is big enough), and one coach is adequate. Plus kids of all ages love to play the game. HELLO!

This has been done successfully in a relatively few school districts already in California, Pennsylvania and Texas with zero support from the BCA. Can you imagine kids growing up playing pool? And why not is all I have to say!
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Well said Jay

I tried to say the same thing but can be wordy! And coming from you holds a ton more weight! Like so much weight as in the 4,5,6,7,8 and 9 plus games on the wire plus the last 3 and the breaks!

If I can help get pool into schools here in Oklahoma I most certainly will help!!!!!!!!!!
 
I was on the phone with my friend and told him to read Badi's press release and asked him what he thought. He told me it was no surprise and that he even came back this year was the surprise. He said he had lunch with Badi and tried to talk business with him but walked away stunned that a businessman would have no answers to any of his questions about marketing and revenue of the Ultimate Ten Ball series. He also said it is easy to walk away saying he WAS going to pour 5 million into the series, but it's easy to throw around big numbers without actually doing it. IE Bonus Ball.

He also said Bonus Ball's new dream of television revenue was shelved many years ago and it a last resort to try and get more money to do some kind of play-offs done so he can sell his dream to more hapless investors. I don't doubt he is right about that.
:rolleyes:
 
jay helfert said:
Best of all, if there ever was a true pro pool tour, the sport would grow by leaps and bounds. Kids (you know, the ones who started out playing in high school!) would have a reason to pursue playing pool as adults. It would be a career opportunity, just like being a golfer or a tennis player. It's not a magic formula, seems to work pretty well for other sports. And PLEASE don't tell me about pool's bad image. That's so much horseshit! Pool's image is just fine, with myriad celebrities and wealthy people owning pool tables in their homes and nearly everyone having tons of respect for the ability of the game's top players. I've seen this first hand for myself.
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Jay, you and I don't often find ourselves on different side of an issue, but I disagree.

Pool's image is not fine. The affluent demographic is only marginally involved with the sport. There is a reason that tennis and golf get Rolex and Cadillac as sponsors and pool does not. Tennis and golf have an established track record in attracting good ratings among the affluent demographic groups, and pool does not.

Pool, because of its bad image, has been unable to attract the kind of investment that is required to deliver it. Yes, an investor willing to overlook the results attained by other major investors in the sport would be nice, not to mention charitable, but it's hard to count on that.

As a long-term insider, I have, and suspect you have, been privy to the ratings numbers that televised pool on ESPN did over the years. In aggregate numbers, the ratings were not all that bad, but I am sure we both know that televised pool always failed to get ratings in the most desirable demographic groups, with the viewers concentrated in lower income, higher aged groups. Even when pool was shown in prime time, this didn't change much. Unfortunately, the purchasing power of those who watched televised pool was insubstantial, a long-term obstacle to ever getting the kind of sponsorship that might deliver the sport from its doldrums.

The TV ratings always confirmed pool's inability to attract the high spending demographic groups in America, and it all boils down to pool's image, which is definitely not fine.

Pool's bad image in America is a product of the poolroom culture, which, with few exceptions, is frowned on as being a bit seedy and undesirable. I'm not sure getting the kids involved will be enough for pool, it will take a remake of the atmosphere found in a typical poolroom. Only then will the kids and the affluent get really involved in pool.

Finally, saying that if there were a sustainable tour offering good money to participants people would flock to the game is putting the cart before the horse. The emergence of a lucrative tour is contingent on the presence of a business entity that thinks that pool is worth investing heavily in. Camel and Trudeau took a shot and quickly did an about face. I think those at the WPBL will do a similar about face at some point.

So, to repeat myself, for somebody outside the industry to seriously consider pool as a place to invest, pool will have to shed its very negative image because it is a big problem.
 
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watchez said:
Some on your list did so without much risk (financially) or it is very minimal at best. Others would be in Badi's class.
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It was just a quick list off the top of my head.

They all kept going though.


Believe me, deep down I feel for the guy. We've all been there...its not a good feeling when you feel like you've been kicked in the nuts.

I know what I've said is harsh and maybe even heartless but I know what he feels.


Sometimes when you build it...they don't come.
 
Beating a dead and ugly horse

Sponsors enjoyed by golf, tennis, football, NASCAR and the like are making a calculated investment to reach a target demographic that will buy their products. If they do not get a suitable return on that investment they stop.

Pool has not been able to link sponsorship to fan spending therefore there are no sponsors.

Take a long hard look in the AZB mirror and re-read the $1 water debates, the $40 tip scandals, the $5 per hour table time outrages and all the rest of the typical BS and wonder once again why pool doesn't have large companies beating down their doors for sponsorship.

Oh yeah, pool did have one industry that might have made sense... And they sued them! Go ask Joe Camel about that.
 
CJ Wiley said:
The actually Pro Pool Players are the entertainers of the business. The are not promoters, they are not managers, they are not even in the service department. To blame them for an event not being properly promoted or serviced is simply incorrect.

Another thing that's pertanent is the Pro Players are not paid. That means they are not required to do any specific job. Someone puts up money in hopes that they come and play and they expect them to act a certain way (that is never clearly defined)......then if things go wrong the players have been somehow blamed.

At Tunica no one showed up, it wasn't because of the players, they did show up.....but, like a band or comedian, it's disheartening to see 15 people in the audience.
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CJ,

I have to somewhat disagree, and then agree.

The pro players definitely do have to share some of the blame for this mess. Yes, they might be great performers on the pool table, but they are pitiful representatives of those who give them the arenas in which to perform. If they would ever realize that they have a responsibility to their sponsors that goes beyond wearing a patch on their sleeve during tournaments, then there would most likely be more businesses wanting to sponsor them. Let's face it, sponsors are not charitable organizations; they are businesses that need to sell goods and/or services, and they have no interest in investing money in tournaments or pool players if there is no chance of getting a return on their investment. But pool players never want to recognize this. They seem to think that the world already knows who they are, and how great they are, and that any business should be thrilled to give them an all-expenses-paid trip to a tournament for nothing more than announcements over the P.A. such as, "and proudly sponsored by Tiger Cues we have Billy Blazer" as Billy shoots the whole tournament with his Southwest cue. That approach has never cut it, and never will.

It appears that Badi is in agreement with all other sponsors. He probably has enough financial resources to promote and sponsor any type or number of tournaments that he wishes, for as long as he wishes, but why should he? There is no doubt that he loves pool and pool players, but he is not going to continue supporting players and organizations that will do nothing to help support themselves. Badi is merely asking that those in charge of promoting, promote. Those that are in charge of governing, govern. And those that are in charge of performing, perform. If this should ever be done correctly, you'd see many more than "15 people in the audience."

I don't blame Badi for pulling out if those with vested interests in pool are not going to do anything to redirect pool.

Roger
 
CJ Wiley said:
Another thing that's pertanent is the Pro Players are not paid. That means they are not required to do any specific job. Someone puts up money in hopes that they come and play and they expect them to act a certain way (that is never clearly defined)......then if things go wrong the players have been somehow blamed.
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CJ, you know as well as anybody that product development falls within the domain of the marketing function.

In the case of pro pool, the players are the product and the producer is the one saddled with the job of how to develop that product so that it can be sold most effectively.

Players may have no contractual obligation to follow the guidelines of the event producer, but when they choose not to do so, they deny the producer of the event the right to present the pro pool product in a way that they feel advances the cause of revenue maximization.

The players know that the pro pool product isn't selling, so when the players obstruct the creative license of an event producer, they obstruct their sport, and yes, they deserve some of the blame if things don't go well.

Of course, Bonus Ball came along and told a group of players that we'll give you a salary but you'll play the game we tell you, dress the way we tell you, and play all your matches where we tell you. On that occasion, the players let the producer take creative control of the pro pool product.

Pro players were far less accommodating in the case of Badi Nazhat. If the pro players feel they need to be paid for the right to repackage the pro pool product, they are, in my view, way out of line, and will, deservingly, turn off many a would-be investor in the sport.
 
watchez said:
Are you going to go to the Mavericks - Heat game if Dirk and Lebron are not going to play?

Are you going to go to the Rangers - Yankees game if Fielder and Cano aren't playing?

Are you going to watch MNF if it is Jacksonville vs Oakland?

Are you going to watch a golf tournament if Tiger Woods isn't playing?

This is the same for what happened in Tunica - not what you are attempting to twist. The players that spectators would pay to see either didn't sign up or signed up so late that people couldn't make plans to be there. It had nothing to do with promoting. To say the players are not at fault is biased and a loss of reality. A MNF football game of Jax vs Oak or Denver vs NE gets the same promotion by the network. But there is obviously more excitement and more interest when the better teams, better players are involved.

Bring up golf ratings when Tiger is near the top of the leaderboard. The Masters gets the same promotion whether he is going to a contender or Charles Swartzel.

You say you were a promoter but I find it hard to believe you don't have a realization of what actually promotes. Billboards, magazine ads, advertising can only do so much.

Watchez is the teacher
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I have to say, this is by far the best post thus far. That last line was pretty good.


Ron Mason
 
CJ Wiley said:
At Tunica no one showed up, it wasn't because of the players, they did show up.....but, like a band or comedian, it's disheartening to see 15 people in the audience.
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At no point did Badi talk about this being an issue. There are even shows filmed for TV with no live audience in Snooker, and that doesn't change the promotion at all. The player show up to play, and to make money. It's then webcasted or broadcasted. Like TAR, where the audience is really reduced, the whole point is to create a show first.

When a tournament becomes interesting to attend to, is when people think something is going to happen. Nobody would pay to watch pro players running out racks after racks. People only enjoy drama, which you can have when big money is at stake, or country pride.


CJ Wiley said:
I feel like the promoter let the Pro Players down....I know this may not be a popular opinion, but so be it.....the pros do their job very well and don't even make a salary. The "eat what they kill" in the tournament and no matter how good they play they may get some "bad rolls" and exit the tournament LOSING money.....how brutal is this "job".
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Badi asked the players one thing: to enlist as soon as they could. The website was setup in january and he raised the added prize fund. While women enlisted early, ensuring possible promotion linked to their names, the men just didn't bother. Because old habits die hard, because some wouldn't know if they would break even on the trip, and also a little because of Bonus Ball which took a part of their travel expenses forecasts for the year.

How brutal is a pro player's life is another thread, another story. This thread is about how brutal it is to be a promoter. Badi in fact exited the tournament LOSING money. How brutal is this job.


CJ Wiley said:
Reality is Tunica's "promotional ball" was dropped and someone needs to lose their job as promoter. Whom ever was the promoter of that even probably should pursue a different profession.....there's really no need for the "Blame Game".....the event was not organized, there was very little communication to the "outside world" and it failed....there's no great mystery why this happened, it was "doomed" from the first break.
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Badi does have a different profession, which is how he could afford to stage the event. Making money was never the goal, or at least short term.

The event was organized, there was indeed very little communication to the "outside world" just because nobody cares about pro pool the way it is staged today.

One of the reason why I was appointed photographer to the event, was to shoot pictures for future promotion to sponsors, in order for the event to grow. The end goal was not only to put a few pics on the web.

Such an even can grow. I believe you remember how the Mosconi Cup was in 1996, and what your experience was in 2012 too. I think it is fair to say that there is a ton of difference. For starters, seats were free in 1996 and it wasn't full. Seats aren't free this year at the Mirage and it's getting close to selling out.

Now why would people move to Tunica or Dallas or anywhere to see players run out is beyond me. I don't think anybody in this industry would expect a huge crowd at any pro tournament.

With that in mind, the Mosconi Cup's format has never been designed to be a test of skills, but a show. A test of nerves if you will. Why the audience shows up:
1 - Country pride (fans will root for whoever plays for USA or Europe)
2 - Big names (Earl sells seats, gets media interest)
3 - History and iconic moments in everybody's mind that may happen again.

People want to be there, watch it, because they want to witness it and talk about it.

You need all these three (switch Earl for Efren and that works too, in Asia. Nobody knows who Efren is in the US mass media (sadly)).


I have worked with many promoters for the past 10 years on different continents and all I can say is: most of the time promoters know what they want and what they will achieve. Sometimes getting big names isn't their priority, sometimes getting audience isn't either.

It doesn't mean they failed.
 
sjm said:
Jay, you and I don't often find ourselves on different side of an issue, but I disagree.

Pool's image is not fine. The affluent demographic is only marginally involved with the sport. There is a reason that tennis and golf get Rolex and Cadillac as sponsors and pool does not. Tennis and golf have an established track record in attracting good ratings among the affluent demographic groups, and pool does not.

Pool, because of its bad image, has been unable to attract the kind of investment that is required to deliver it. Yes, an investor willing to overlook the results attained by other major investors in the sport would be nice, not to mention charitable, but it's hard to count on that.

As a long-term insider, I have, and suspect you have, been privy to the ratings numbers that televised pool on ESPN did over the years. In aggregate numbers, the ratings were not all that bad, but I am sure we both know that televised pool always failed to get ratings in the most desirable demographic groups, with the viewers concentrated in lower income, higher aged groups. Even when pool was shown in prime time, this didn't change much. Unfortunately, the purchasing power of those who watched televised pool was insubstantial, a long-term obstacle to ever getting the kind of sponsorship that might deliver the sport from its doldrums.

The TV ratings always confirmed pool's inability to attract the high spending demographic groups in America, and it all boils down to pool's image, which is definitely not fine.

Pool's bad image in America is a product of the poolroom culture, which, with few exceptions, is frowned on as being a bit seedy and undesirable. I'm not sure getting the kids involved will be enough for pool, it will take a remake of the atmosphere found in a typical poolroom. Only then will the kids and the affluent get really involved in pool.

Finally, saying that if there were a sustainable tour offering good money to participants people would flock to the game is putting the cart before the horse. The emergence of a lucrative tour is contingent on the presence of a business entity that thinks that pool is worth investing heavily in. Camel and Trudeau took a shot and quickly did an about face. I think those at the WPBL will do a similar about face at some point.

So, to repeat myself, for somebody outside the industry to seriously consider pool as a place to invest, pool will have to shed its very negative image because it is a big problem.
Click to expand...

Re: Kids

While this is certainly not to be taken as all parents doing this here is something I witnessed which even me, die hard lover of pool gambling that I am, was disconcerted about in my early days in this industry.

I was at a BCA Expo in Vegas in the mid 90s. At that time they used to hold the Junior Nationals in conjunction with the Expo. So I am at the Cue Club and it's PACKED with teenagers trying to gamble. They are matching up with each other, matching up with adults and basically displaying ALL of the hustling skills we associate with the "seedy" side of pool. And the parents were right in the mix, dads and moms encouraging it. I was asked by no less than five kids "what do you want to do, sir". While I had a moment where I thought I wanted to play these kids I thought crap I don't want to take money from 12 year olds......and moreover I don't want to lose money to 12 year olds!

I guess what I want to say is that pool has never really been effectively steered away from the gambling culture (which I happen to like and think is fine) and into the sporting arena.

Where I agree with Badi is that individual promoters cannot raise the sport into the sporting arena individually. That takes a concerted and sustained marketing effort.

In fact the whole reason the term pocket billiards is used is 100% because Brunswick insisted on it with their marketing and for all who they sponsored. We have honestly had nothing like that in the entire 25 years I have been involved in this industry that I can remember.

For a while we had the "pool is cool" thing from the BCA and that's it.
 
sjm said:
In aggregate numbers, the ratings were not all that bad, but I am sure we both know that televised pool always failed to get ratings in the most desirable demographic groups, with the viewers concentrated in lower income, higher aged groups. Even when pool was shown in prime time, this didn't change much. Unfortunately, the purchasing power of those who watched televised pool was insubstantial...
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This one paragraph is worth more and is truer than everything else that has been written or said about getting sponsorship for pool. It is ALL about demographics. It doesn't matter if, as CJ says, 100+ gazillion people watch ESPN. In any of it's current models, when pool came on the numbers for any desirable demo dropped off so far that they couldn't be found. That = no sponsors. It's not rocket science. Past failed sponsorships are the teacher...

I completely agree with Jay that the college model is a GREAT idea. Problem is, it's the intercollegiate athletics and activities departments that you have to sell it to, and they eventually have to sell it to the presidents. Yeah, it's worked in a few cases, but unfortunately when you hit the president's office it's usually time to cue up "Ya Got Trouble" (no pun intended)...

Doesn't stop me though...I've been researching getting something started at a local school here, and hope to pull the trigger with some pitches within a year or so. Still lining up enemies to influence :grin::grin:

B
 
Dammit to hell......just who or what is the DAMN TEACHER???

Can we get this straight before we continue beating this dead horse???

Maniac (maybe the dead horse is the teacher???)
 
According to this they definitely failed.....at setting priorities

jpparmentier said:
I have worked with many promoters for the past 10 years on different continents and all I can say is: most of the time promoters know what they want and what they will achieve. Sometimes getting big names isn't their priority, sometimes getting audience isn't either.

It doesn't mean they failed.
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So getting the best talent isn't the priority and getting audiences isn't the priority.....and making money isn't the priority......and goal setting probably isn't the priority I'd guess. :D

Actually according to this they failed....at having priorities. ;)

A promoter that isn't trying to get the best talent, to put on the best show, and make profit is not a promoter........they are something else.....and "not caring" is failing.

This would be like a comedian not caring if anyone showed up for their show....and then be ok if no one laughed......then say that the show wasn't a "failure"......???

No one can argue with reasoning like this......because it's unreasonable.
 
Pre-Flag Master said:
How?

..........
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Golf was a "hustlers" sport in the 1950's. Snooker was also not in the mainstream until it took off in the 1980's. The movers and shakers caused golfers and snooker players to change the way they conducted and presented themselves and the result was that big sponsorship became available to them. Participation in their sports took off once people around them wanted to be like the pros.

In secondary sports, excellence alone doesn't draw attention. Pool players see no reason to present themselves (or allow anyone to present them) differently, thereby ensuring that their negative image will linger on in the public eye. Nobody wants to be like the pool pros, too many of whom dress sloppily, use foul language, prey on amateur players and have low net worth.

I am reminded of the very silly joke "How many psychotherapists does it take to change a light bulb?" The answer is that no number of them will suffice unless the light bulb is truly willing to change.

Pool players are not willing to change ... but they could be and should be willing to change for the betterment of their sport's image.
 
Without ESPN or a major network involved there is no reason to put on a Pro Event

sjm said:
CJ, you know as well as anybody that product development falls within the domain of the marketing function.

In the case of pro pool, the players are the product and the producer is the one saddled with the job of how to develop that product so that it can be sold most effectively.

.
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Click to expand...


I was at Tunica and got to experience the entire event and the Pro players did nothing wrong....they didn't have a chance to. No one was there.....blaming the Pro players for anything at Tunica is unfounded......they did everything they were ask to do.....they showed up and played pool to the best of their ability.

The were not ask to play a PRO AM, or contribute in any other way......and they would be glad to, the problem was there was nothing to do......nothing....no fans, no TV......

I've been around the WPBA Events and have done promotions with them in the past. There is a HUGE potential in putting the greatest women and men players together........but I would never use the format of Tunica ever again....it simply won't work under any circumstances.

Without ESPN or a major network involved there is no reason to put on a professional pool tournament.....I know many will disagree, but this is what I firmly believe, and I've been on all sides of this equation. Rather than putting all the money in the prize fund it's essential to get the tournament televised......no matter what it takes!!!
 
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