ivory ferrules
- Thread starter octy81
- Start date
Treat an Ivory ferrule like any other. If it lasts a week, it will last for ever. I always put a pad on my Ivory ferrules & make them as strong as I can. In otherwords I use a 1/4" cap on the ferrule. I have used these ferrules for 25 yrs & love them...JER
May I ask WHY you want an ivory ferrule?
Do you not like elephants?
They have to die for you to have ivory, plain & simple.
Are you under the impression that ivory is your magic-bullet and will improve your game?
It's not and it won't.
Ivory is one of the heaviest ferrule mtrls. you can use on a cue surpassed only by Ivorine-4.
I don't think that's the direction you want to go, in seeking to improve your game.
It's the complete OPPOSITE direction if L/D is to be a consideration.
Welcome to the world of massive and unpredictable 'squirt'.
Consider also that ivory is by no means a strong or stable mtrl.
It's riddled with internal fissures that will cause the ivory to split whenever it wants to.
Looking 'cool' at $75 a shot may be worth considering.
There's a reason that CMs take extraordinary measures when installing ivory.
It can self-destruct before they get it out of the lathe. Oh well, there's another $75 I won't be making.
The idea is to get it into your hands, the customer, before it 'goes South'.
Then it's replacement is on you. You bought it, you own it.
There are NO GUARANTEES with ivory and shame on any CM that doesn't inform you of that upfront.
Ivory had it's place before we invented plastics. That was a long time ago.
It has since been proven to be inferior structurally and is counter to improving one's game.
Today's use of ivory in a cue is purely ornamental and serves no beneficial purpose other than to stroke the owner's ego.
What a waste. The threatened extinction of this magnificent creature purely for ego. What a waste.
Do you really want to be part of this? WHY???
KJ
Do you not like elephants?
They have to die for you to have ivory, plain & simple.
Are you under the impression that ivory is your magic-bullet and will improve your game?
It's not and it won't.
Ivory is one of the heaviest ferrule mtrls. you can use on a cue surpassed only by Ivorine-4.
I don't think that's the direction you want to go, in seeking to improve your game.
It's the complete OPPOSITE direction if L/D is to be a consideration.
Welcome to the world of massive and unpredictable 'squirt'.
Consider also that ivory is by no means a strong or stable mtrl.
It's riddled with internal fissures that will cause the ivory to split whenever it wants to.
Looking 'cool' at $75 a shot may be worth considering.
There's a reason that CMs take extraordinary measures when installing ivory.
It can self-destruct before they get it out of the lathe. Oh well, there's another $75 I won't be making.
The idea is to get it into your hands, the customer, before it 'goes South'.
Then it's replacement is on you. You bought it, you own it.
There are NO GUARANTEES with ivory and shame on any CM that doesn't inform you of that upfront.
Ivory had it's place before we invented plastics. That was a long time ago.
It has since been proven to be inferior structurally and is counter to improving one's game.
Today's use of ivory in a cue is purely ornamental and serves no beneficial purpose other than to stroke the owner's ego.
What a waste. The threatened extinction of this magnificent creature purely for ego. What a waste.
Do you really want to be part of this? WHY???
KJ
Hello thank you for the response. First off its only a question I love elephants. I saw a cue on here for sale that has ivory ferrules, a lot of the top cue makers use ivory ferrules, so I wanted to know what type of hit it produces also the type of care that is needed to maintain the ivory. Also I don't think that my game needs improving nor do I think ivory would help. I'm not into killing an animal purely to stroke my ego and if a cue maker uses it to make a cue hey to each his own I'm not passing judgement on anyone. I was just asking a question no need to climb on the soapbox. If anyone else has info on the subject please share.
Right or wrong the cue buying public will not pay 5 grand+ for a inlaid cue if all the white isn't ivory. I am sure just about all the cue makers would give up building with ivory if the public would pay for those same inlay in plastic. It is like buying your fiancee a cubic zirconia engagement ring, it's not the same. People want the real deal, when they see white in a cue they expect it to be ivory. Tell me of a high end cue maker that gets top dollar for his cues without using ivory?
That certainly wasn't my 'soapbox' speech. If it were, my post would likely be 3-4 pages long.
It was an honest answer to your simple question plus some points to ponder.
KJ
Put a cue with real ivory next to one with imitation ivory. Can you tell the difference? For the most part no one would know if it was real or fake unless you told someone. The only person who cares and should care is the owner. It's a personal decision. It's not like we all don't have something on us made from animals. Wallet, shoes etc. I personally would not want ivory in my cue. One less beautiful animal killed for our petty needs.
I will try to answer your question. Ivory has a distinct hit. To me its a harder and produces a (tink) sound to it when you hit the cue ball. You will find that most cue builders will use a pad with them . For protections of the ferulle. Im not sure why you would want to sand it after it is installed. One thing I like about Ivory is it does stay very clean.
It does make the cue ball squirt because of the weight of the Ivory. It is a guessing game on how long it will last. Anytime you drill and tap Ivory you weaken it. It is a very brittle material. Personally I wouldnt use it on my cue. You sound like you can play. So im sure you understand about squirt and deflection. I like the cue ball to go the direction that I am hitting it. I hope this helps.
Ponder this. The demand for ivory is about a bathtub full of water in the
ocean of parameters leading to the extention of the African Elephant.
Loss of habitat, due to encroaching population is 95+ % of the pressure
on them.
You want to save the Elephant?
Build a few cruise missiles and launch some Neutron Bombs on Africa.
Or... give Elephants some economic value other than that of
tourist attraction.
Dale
Can't argue your position because I agree with the majority of it.
I pondered, now your turn.
About 10 yrs ago it was estimated that there were approx. 500,000 of these elephants left.
I learned earlier this year that the number is now 350,000 and that 35,000 have been killed so far this year.
At that continued rate, in 10 yrs. the elephant in the wild will be no more. They will be extinct.
Poaching, encroachment, loss of habitat, mass-clearing of land for farm ground, yeah it's all real.
And if it weren't for the 'poaching' reference, I could be talking about the Amazon Rainforest.
Same scenario and for the same reasons; money & greed. The lust for money is stealing our planet.
Savor what's left.
"Or... give Elephants some economic value other than that of
tourist attraction."
Dale that's totally wrong; 'market-value'? (sorry, economic value)(is that not the same thing?).
That's pretty much the problem we have right now, they have market value. There's demand.
Apparently, money trumps the most precious of all gifts; life. There is nothing more for me to say.
KJ
I pondered, now your turn.
About 10 yrs ago it was estimated that there were approx. 500,000 of these elephants left.
I learned earlier this year that the number is now 350,000 and that 35,000 have been killed so far this year.
At that continued rate, in 10 yrs. the elephant in the wild will be no more. They will be extinct.
Poaching, encroachment, loss of habitat, mass-clearing of land for farm ground, yeah it's all real.
And if it weren't for the 'poaching' reference, I could be talking about the Amazon Rainforest.
Same scenario and for the same reasons; money & greed. The lust for money is stealing our planet.
Savor what's left.
"Or... give Elephants some economic value other than that of
tourist attraction."
Dale that's totally wrong; 'market-value'? (sorry, economic value)(is that not the same thing?).
That's pretty much the problem we have right now, they have market value. There's demand.
Apparently, money trumps the most precious of all gifts; life. There is nothing more for me to say.
KJ
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I have pondered the ethics of using ivory for cue inlays and the jury is still out.... I haven't made a decision.............I have used it in one cue.
As for using it as a ferrule, I have seen a man that used it on his break cue for about 10 years with out it failing.
Kim
As for using it as a ferrule, I have seen a man that used it on his break cue for about 10 years with out it failing.
Kim
Sorry K, but it is totally correct. You are missing the point that IVORY has
economic value. But, not unlike pro pool players, no one seems to have the
will, nor the means to keep the animals that provide the ivory viable.
Consider this - cows are in no danger of going extint. Why do you supose
that is?
And while I'm at it, does anyone bemoan the use of leather tips on cues?
Or leather shoes on feet?
Dale
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Kelly,
Your post was/is succinct and to the point. It was very well stated. There is no mistaking it's message.
To Dale,
The argument that we use leather falls short when compared to ivory and with good reason.
We were given 'dominion' over the earth and all it provides.
Therefore, we are charged with the responsibility of making good choices with regards to it's sustainability.
The difference btwn cattle and elephants should be obvious as to their place in our society.
Eons ago, cattle were domesticated to sustain us and our needs; eating, shoes, leather cue tips, etc.
The cattle sustain us and we sustain the cattle in a conservative manner. That has become their purpose.
The elephant is not a domesticated creature and was never intended to be, anymore than the Bengal Tiger or the Rhinoceros.
There are some parts of the world where the elephant is used as a form of power, ie, a tractor.
These people understand conservation and I seriously doubt that they would sacrifice
their tractor to the ivory trade for a quick buck. They depend on that creature and will for many years to come.
This may be the sustainability of which you speak. That I can agree with.
As I was typing my previous post I had an epiphany, a realization.
It was shocking which is why my last sentence in that post was "There is nothing more for me to say."
Those who seek ivory, dare I say demand, have no thought whatsoever for the life that must be taken.
That is no concern for them in their lust for ivory. The value of life is secondary if it matters at all.
I want nothing to do with these people. Their value system is corrupt and I fear that it's not exclusive to ivory.
Pool is waning, honor and integrity have left the building. Is there a connection?
KJ
Your post was/is succinct and to the point. It was very well stated. There is no mistaking it's message.
To Dale,
The argument that we use leather falls short when compared to ivory and with good reason.
We were given 'dominion' over the earth and all it provides.
Therefore, we are charged with the responsibility of making good choices with regards to it's sustainability.
The difference btwn cattle and elephants should be obvious as to their place in our society.
Eons ago, cattle were domesticated to sustain us and our needs; eating, shoes, leather cue tips, etc.
The cattle sustain us and we sustain the cattle in a conservative manner. That has become their purpose.
The elephant is not a domesticated creature and was never intended to be, anymore than the Bengal Tiger or the Rhinoceros.
There are some parts of the world where the elephant is used as a form of power, ie, a tractor.
These people understand conservation and I seriously doubt that they would sacrifice
their tractor to the ivory trade for a quick buck. They depend on that creature and will for many years to come.
This may be the sustainability of which you speak. That I can agree with.
As I was typing my previous post I had an epiphany, a realization.
It was shocking which is why my last sentence in that post was "There is nothing more for me to say."
Those who seek ivory, dare I say demand, have no thought whatsoever for the life that must be taken.
That is no concern for them in their lust for ivory. The value of life is secondary if it matters at all.
I want nothing to do with these people. Their value system is corrupt and I fear that it's not exclusive to ivory.
Pool is waning, honor and integrity have left the building. Is there a connection?
KJ
No animal was ever "intended" to be domesticated.
"Guns, Germs and Steel" gives good info on why the ones that were came
to be.
Your reference to Asian Elephants only provides further proof for my point.
In fact, working elephants are rapidly becomming a thing of the past. The
Asian elephant, sadly, is on the same path as the African, just not so
far along. And this in a culture which reveres the animal so much they
veiw it as one form of a god.
But, we've hijacked this thread enough. To the OP, with apoligies,
As has already been stated, Ivory, in general is plenty strong enough.
However, it can be problematic. I have never had a problem with a ferrule,
but I have had a short joint blank decide to crack for no good reason.
The other half of the blank is still doing just fine as the joint on a cue that is played.
Dale
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Thank you Dale and to all others that helped in answering my question. I never meant for this question to spark a debate about conservation. As I stated before the only reason I asked is that a member was selling a really nice cue but it has ivory ferrules and I do not have any experience with ivory. I browse through the wanted and for sale forum all the time and I see many of the top cue makers like prewitt, wayne, Scruggs etc. use ivory in there cues, so I didn't think this was such a touchy subject. I do understand the points some people are trying to make. I probably would have bought the cue and had the ferrules changed out anyways. To KJ if you have any conservationist beliefs plant a tree for every cue you build remember the wood you use to build that cue came from a tree, trees that provide you with the air to breathe. Good day to you all
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The majority of people appear to think that if a cue has ivory in it, an elephant was slaughtered last month to harvest its ivory tusks. I completely concur that elephant poaching and preservation of the species is very important.......same as it goes for other forms of wildlife.........whales included.However, there is ample, legal ivory in this country (http://www.elephantivorytusks.com) for pool cue designs but it's imperative to always and exclusively deal with reputable suppliers and cue-makers of integrity to ensure any and all ivory in your cue will be legal. What about cue wraps? Are the ears of an elephant any less valuable to the elephant versus a cue wrap?
ICE & U.S. Dept. of Wildlife are ever vigilant and vigorously pursue illegal ivory importation and even cue exports from the USA can get you into trouble. The ivory inlays in my cue being built for me, or its ivory ferrules, joint and butt cap are not contributing to the elephant poaching problem.
IVORY SYNOPSIS
The INTERNATIONAL and U.S.FISH & WILDLIFE laws regulate the commerce of ivory, which in turn is regulated by C.I.T.E.S (Convention on the International Trade in endangered Species) and the 'Marine Mammal Protection Act'. C.I.T.E.S. is an organization that was formed in 1973 as a multinational protege of the United Nations to meet every 2 years to review data and set quotas to maintain levels of protection on species of both plant and animal. Here's what they say on regulation of ivories:
AFRICAN ELEPHANT: This is on the C.I.T.E.S. endangered species list. The importation, selling and buying of this ivory IS NOT ALLOWED INTERNATIONALLY It cannot be exported or imported to the U.S and most of the countries delegated to the U.N., BUT... it is LEGAL TO OWN, SELL, BUY, or SHIP within the boundaries of the U.S. and there are NO PERMITS or REGISTRATION requirements! The majority of african elephant ivory is "old estate" ivory that was brought into this country since its' inception.
MAMMOTH/MASTEDON: These are two distinctively different animals for one thing but the ivory is difficult to distinguish between the two. These mammals are extinct and were on this earth 10 to 40,000 years ago so this ivory is COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED! Distinguishing the difference between Mammoth/Mastedon ivory and Elephant ivory is determined by the angles where the cross grain lines bisect each other. Angles greater than 120% indicate elephant ivory and angles less than 90% indicate Mammoth/Mastedon ivory. Other distinctions include the color of the inner layers of the ivory and the outer layer referred to as the 'bark'.
HIPPO/WARTHOG: These species are protected but not endangered. Because of over population and a danger to humans, these animals are legally hunted by regulation for 'cull' purposes. Permits and documentation are required for importing or exporting this ivory but once it is in the U.S., NO PERMITS OR DOCUMENTS ARE NECESSARY to buy or sell interstate.
SPERM WHALE: An endangered species and regulated since 1973 by The Marine Mammal Protection Act. NO IMPORTATION/EXPORTATION PERIOD! Interstate sales of REGISTERED PRE-ACT teeth with SCRIMSHAW is allowed under a special Federal Permit. Unregistered pre-act teeth can NO LONGER BE REGISTERED and CANNOT BE TRANSPORTED across interstate lines for commercial purposes. THEY CAN BE SOLD 'INTRASTATE' so long as STATE LAW does not prohibit it!
ANTIQUE (100 YRS +) Scrimshaw Teeth can be sold Interstate.
I acknowledge that criminals will try to cheat and break the law and they should be prosecuted to the fullest, most severe extent of the law possible I might add. I do not condone the slaughter of elephants or other animals to harvest them for their body parts.........absolutely horrible. But the "legal" ivory already in the USA is available and I'm going to take advantage of it. Know why Cortalnd Linen costs so much today........there isn't any more around so supply and demand drive the price up when you can find any........the same will hold true for the supply of legal ivory in the USA.......and the inventory dwindles and cannot be replaced, the going price will start to gradually rise and it will be unaffordable for most cues except for some custom cues.
In the interim, there seems to be an endless supply of feral hogs that need to be slaughtered to protect our nations farming community from being ruined and in turn, a lot of homeless & hungry people could get fed at the same time. And those hog tusks would provide more ivory than would ever be needed for pool cues too. So let's get those rifles cleaned and go hunting pool cue ivory to quell and quiet everyone's nerves and feelings about elephant ivory.
Get Up & Go American Hoggers!
ICE & U.S. Dept. of Wildlife are ever vigilant and vigorously pursue illegal ivory importation and even cue exports from the USA can get you into trouble. The ivory inlays in my cue being built for me, or its ivory ferrules, joint and butt cap are not contributing to the elephant poaching problem.
IVORY SYNOPSIS
The INTERNATIONAL and U.S.FISH & WILDLIFE laws regulate the commerce of ivory, which in turn is regulated by C.I.T.E.S (Convention on the International Trade in endangered Species) and the 'Marine Mammal Protection Act'. C.I.T.E.S. is an organization that was formed in 1973 as a multinational protege of the United Nations to meet every 2 years to review data and set quotas to maintain levels of protection on species of both plant and animal. Here's what they say on regulation of ivories:
AFRICAN ELEPHANT: This is on the C.I.T.E.S. endangered species list. The importation, selling and buying of this ivory IS NOT ALLOWED INTERNATIONALLY It cannot be exported or imported to the U.S and most of the countries delegated to the U.N., BUT... it is LEGAL TO OWN, SELL, BUY, or SHIP within the boundaries of the U.S. and there are NO PERMITS or REGISTRATION requirements! The majority of african elephant ivory is "old estate" ivory that was brought into this country since its' inception.
MAMMOTH/MASTEDON: These are two distinctively different animals for one thing but the ivory is difficult to distinguish between the two. These mammals are extinct and were on this earth 10 to 40,000 years ago so this ivory is COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED! Distinguishing the difference between Mammoth/Mastedon ivory and Elephant ivory is determined by the angles where the cross grain lines bisect each other. Angles greater than 120% indicate elephant ivory and angles less than 90% indicate Mammoth/Mastedon ivory. Other distinctions include the color of the inner layers of the ivory and the outer layer referred to as the 'bark'.
HIPPO/WARTHOG: These species are protected but not endangered. Because of over population and a danger to humans, these animals are legally hunted by regulation for 'cull' purposes. Permits and documentation are required for importing or exporting this ivory but once it is in the U.S., NO PERMITS OR DOCUMENTS ARE NECESSARY to buy or sell interstate.
SPERM WHALE: An endangered species and regulated since 1973 by The Marine Mammal Protection Act. NO IMPORTATION/EXPORTATION PERIOD! Interstate sales of REGISTERED PRE-ACT teeth with SCRIMSHAW is allowed under a special Federal Permit. Unregistered pre-act teeth can NO LONGER BE REGISTERED and CANNOT BE TRANSPORTED across interstate lines for commercial purposes. THEY CAN BE SOLD 'INTRASTATE' so long as STATE LAW does not prohibit it!
ANTIQUE (100 YRS +) Scrimshaw Teeth can be sold Interstate.
I acknowledge that criminals will try to cheat and break the law and they should be prosecuted to the fullest, most severe extent of the law possible I might add. I do not condone the slaughter of elephants or other animals to harvest them for their body parts.........absolutely horrible. But the "legal" ivory already in the USA is available and I'm going to take advantage of it. Know why Cortalnd Linen costs so much today........there isn't any more around so supply and demand drive the price up when you can find any........the same will hold true for the supply of legal ivory in the USA.......and the inventory dwindles and cannot be replaced, the going price will start to gradually rise and it will be unaffordable for most cues except for some custom cues.
In the interim, there seems to be an endless supply of feral hogs that need to be slaughtered to protect our nations farming community from being ruined and in turn, a lot of homeless & hungry people could get fed at the same time. And those hog tusks would provide more ivory than would ever be needed for pool cues too. So let's get those rifles cleaned and go hunting pool cue ivory to quell and quiet everyone's nerves and feelings about elephant ivory.
Get Up & Go American Hoggers!
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