List Of Problems Facing Pro Pool in U.S.A

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Here is a list of why I think a national pro tour is so hard to make happen for promoters and players.

United States is very large.
Travel cost
Hotel/motel cost
Food
No pro regional tours
No major sponsors
Tables
Ins
Venue cost and what else it cost to put tournaments on
Payout not large enough or deep enough
No pool organization
Live paying gate too low
Pool has a bad name to the majority of mainstream
Promoter’s can’t/won’t work together
Players have bad image
Players won’t help promote
No TV
Pool is boring to watch for most

These are just some of the problems that have to be solved to get pool profitable for players, promoters and sponsors. Feel free to add to the list. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
Here is a list of why I think a national pro tour is so hard to make happen for promoters and players.

United States is very large.
Travel cost
Hotel/motel cost
Food
No pro regional tours
No major sponsors
Tables
Ins
Venue cost and what else it cost to put tournaments on
Payout not large enough or deep enough
No pool organization
Live paying gate too low
Pool has a bad name to the majority of mainstream
Promoter’s can’t/won’t work together
Players have bad image
Players won’t help promote
No TV
Pool is boring to watch for most

These are just some of the problems that have to be solved to get pool profitable for players, promoters and sponsors. Feel free to add to the list. Johnnyt
Click to expand...



Of all you said above, I believe the most correct is that there are not millions of people that want to watch Pros Play.
 
Johnnyt said:
Here is a list of why I think a national pro tour is so hard to make happen for promoters and players.

United States is very large.
Travel cost
Hotel/motel cost
Food
No pro regional tours
No major sponsors
Tables
Ins
Venue cost and what else it cost to put tournaments on
Payout not large enough or deep enough
No pool organization
Live paying gate too low
Pool has a bad name to the majority of mainstream
Promoter’s can’t/won’t work together
Players have bad image
Players won’t help promote
No TV
Pool is boring to watch for most

These are just some of the problems that have to be solved to get pool profitable for players, promoters and sponsors. Feel free to add to the list. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

American Billiard Club Association addressing a lot of these issues www.ABCPL.info
 
you missed
Respectability
Incentive
Grass roots
Nobody wants thier kids trying to play this game as a career
The game has not built for the future so has no future
 
Johnnyt said:
Here is a list of why I think a national pro tour is so hard to make happen for promoters and players.

United States is very large.
Travel cost
Hotel/motel cost
Food
No pro regional tours
No major sponsors
Tables
Ins
Venue cost and what else it cost to put tournaments on
Payout not large enough or deep enough
No pool organization
Live paying gate too low
Pool has a bad name to the majority of mainstream
Promoter’s can’t/won’t work together
Players have bad image
Players won’t help promote
No TV
Pool is boring to watch for most

These are just some of the problems that have to be solved to get pool profitable for players, promoters and sponsors. Feel free to add to the list. Johnnyt
Click to expand...



Pool receives no government subsidy (school districts )
Pool requires money every time you play. Video games , television sets are a one time expense .
Pool requires dedication to learn most video games are simplistic .
Pool is not marketed , only products used to play or learn it .
Families seldom sit down and watch a pool tournament .
Most pool venues make their money from something other than pool. Have you noticed that even some people on this forum expect pool venues to have free pool at certain hours of the day ?

Can you name any big pool tournaments in countries other than the United States that pay out enough money for the individual pool player to attend without sponsorship ? Other than Turning Stone and the US Open 9-ball can you name another pro level tournament that isn't affiliated with Mark Griffin or Diamond pool tables ?

Pro snooker is essential controlled by one individual . A pro level player would have a better chance making money , not necessarily a living , by playing regional one off tournaments with decent added money and calcuttas than some hoped for pro tour.

My mother was the glue that held our holiday traditions together , everybody meet at her house , when siblings had children they came too. Momma made Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners by herself with the exception of a snack plate or some candy brought along . Grandkids dirtied up dishes for every piece of pie or second helping but daughters-in-law didn't offer to help do them , heck not even my oldest sister did , or my ungrateful brother with the most children.

It was a labor of love for my mom , but when everyone left old mom was left with the mess to clean up , so i started helping her. When mom got dementia the grandkids lamented not having the holiday dinners but nobody picked up the mantle to take over , i could have cared less to labor to make a bunch of whiny ass brats happy.

Such is pool , everybody wants someone else to open a nice pool room that they patronize once in a blue moon , with everything free and a nice safe environment and clean restrooms with a food menu to satisfy carnivores and vegans. Everybody send your local , regional or national pool promoter/room owner a donation and a thank you note this holiday season .
 
Johnnyt said:
Here is a list of why I think a national pro tour is so hard to make happen for promoters and players.

United States is very large.
Travel cost
Hotel/motel cost
Food
No pro regional tours
No major sponsors
Tables
Ins
Venue cost and what else it cost to put tournaments on
Payout not large enough or deep enough
No pool organization
Live paying gate too low
Pool has a bad name to the majority of mainstream
Promoter’s can’t/won’t work together
Players have bad image
Players won’t help promote
No TV
Pool is boring to watch for most

These are just some of the problems that have to be solved to get pool profitable for players, promoters and sponsors. Feel free to add to the list. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

You pretty well covered all the bases Johnny...But I think you could have shortened your list considerably ! The bottom line is, there is NO, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, ORGANIZATION ! We do not have, a PGA, PBA, or USTA, as is needed to band together players involved in an 'individual' type sport !..Promoter's and potential sponsors, have NO ONE to deal with !

Archer tried to assemble a group of top players, but I think everyone has already forgotten what they were called (WPPA ?) Their first move, was to give ultimatums, to the U.S. Open 9 Ball promoter..That went over real well, the end result was sill the same !

Until someone (NOT a pool player) steps up and creates a bonafied Pro Pool Player's Assn., nothing is going to change !..It will be a thankless task, but if a good solid PR firm is not hired, it just ain't gonna happen ! It is hard to believe, that 'Bowling' (the most boring spectator sport in the world)..is still light years ahead of pool, in sponsorship and prize money !.."Theres your sign" !

As for having to overcome a costly 'nut', while pursuing an individual sport like pool, bowling or golf..that's just the way it is these days !..The mediocre player's, just ain't gonna make it..and that's as it should be !
 
The root cause problem with pool period is a matter of demographics. I'd be willing to bet less that 0.5% of the people in our country with even a casual interest in pool have an average yearly income of less than $50K. The numbers may be more discouraging than that. Therefore, minimal disposable income. If you're a corporation, TV or any other entity looking to spend advertising dollars, why would you pick pool?

Just look at Dr. Dave's BU exam and Mark Wilson's book for $200 and $75 respectively. These are high quality products provided by high quality people. They should easily sell thousands. Look at the threads here and see the number of people *****ing about the price. Look at Mark Wilson and what he's doing with his college program and compare it to how Earl conducted himself at the Mosconi Cup and other events and then see which of the two get more press here.

Compare this to football, basketball and baseball where corporations spend hundreds of thousands on suites and millions of people routinely pay $75 to $500 for tickets to see their favorite team.. I'll bet the demographic is almost the opposite end of the spectrum. Money comes from money. Until pool figures out a way to attract the demographic with disposable income, there'll be no money in it.
 
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SJDinPHX said:
You pretty well covered all the bases Johnny...But I think you could have shortened your list considerably ! The bottom line is, there is NO, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, ORGANIZATION ! We do not have, a PGA, PBA, or USTA, as is needed to band together players involved in an 'individual' type sport !..Promoter's and potential sponsors, have NO ONE to deal with !

Archer tried to assemble a group of top players, but I think everyone has already forgotten what they were called (WPPA ?) Their first move, was to give ultimatums, to the U.S. Open 9 Ball promoter..That went over real well, the end result was sill the same !

Until someone (NOT a pool player) steps up and creates a bonafied Pro Pool Player's Assn., nothing is going to change !..It will be a thankless task, but if a good solid PR firm is not hired, it just ain't gonna happen ! It is hard to believe, that 'Bowling' (the most boring spectator sport in the world)..is still light years ahead of pool, in sponsorship and prize money !.."Theres your sign" !

As for having to overcome a costly 'nut', while pursuing an individual sport like pool, bowling or golf..that's just the way it is these days !..The mediocre player's, just ain't gonna make it..and that's as it should be !
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Good post. Thank you. Johnnyt
 
I started this thread to give an idea the mountain that would need to be climbed by a lot of different groups to make a good pro tour happen here in the states. Johnnyt
 
When more more people follow the example the example set by Mark Wilson with his college team there will be plenty of quality players and many at a high level. These will hopefully be the seeds of the future for pool. Mark Griffin has shown that quality promotion backed up by quality promoter can make for quality events. The players have not always supported the events put on by Mark and he is changing his direction, I expect he will be successful with his new ventures, The players not invited to participated will probably regret their past actions or perhaps inaction's.

Players need to have an event window longer than the next shot and getting past thru today. They are there own worst enemy and as a group they seem to follow the wrong leaders and they are fairly consistent with bad decisions. This has been going on for quite a while Until there is a pro quality population with a professional approach to life and pool as opposed to a predator type approach the game will continue to spiral down and stagnate out of view, forgotten by most.
 
nobcitypool said:
The root cause problem with pool period is a matter of demographics. I'd be willing to bet less that 0.5% of the people in our country with even a casual interest in pool have an average yearly income of less than $50K. The numbers may be more discouraging than that. Therefore, minimal disposable income. If you're a corporation, TV or any other entity looking to spend advertising dollars, why would you pick pool?
Click to expand...

Best post in the thread, to which I'll add that pool has never focused on what it would take to change its demographics. Pool players have, for decades, rejected the kind of conduct and presentation that might attract the higher spending demographic groups it craves.
 
nobcitypool said:
Just look at Dr. Dave's BU exam and Mark Wilson's book for $200 and $75 respectively. These are high quality products provided by high quality people. They should easily sell thousands. Look at the threads here and see the number of people *****ing about the price.
Click to expand...
Actually, the BU Exams and all of the supporting resources (diagrams, score sheets, templates, rating system, online video demonstrations, etc.) are all freely available on the BU website. The only things that cost money are 3-DVD BU Instructional DVD series ($30 each, or $85 for the set and case) and BU diplomas ($100, $50, or $25 for the different options). Again, all of the BU Exam documents, rating system info, and online resources are completely free.

Regards,
Dave
 
Johnnyt said:
Here is a list of why I think a national pro tour is so hard to make happen for promoters and players.

United States is very large.
Travel cost
Hotel/motel cost
Food
No pro regional tours
No major sponsors
Tables
Ins
Venue cost and what else it cost to put tournaments on
Payout not large enough or deep enough
No pool organization
Live paying gate too low
Pool has a bad name to the majority of mainstream
Promoter’s can’t/won’t work together
Players have bad image
Players won’t help promote
No TV
Pool is boring to watch for most

These are just some of the problems that have to be solved to get pool profitable for players, promoters and sponsors. Feel free to add to the list. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Johnnyt,
I haven't read any of the other comments at this point. I see the major thing and no organization of the fans. Back when the BCA sold the leagues if you had tried to form a player supported organization I think at that time it would have failed.

I think perhaps now is the time when it might not but there isn't consensus about who wants to offer up a plan for a player member organization. Its possible that it could take hold and offer some help to pool but I don't see that focusing on pro pool as fixing much if it doesn't create new players.

If this time in pool is a reformation and out of it comes and new organization whose focus is grass roots support. We might have something but if we try to address our problems top down I just don't see much working out.
 
There are no problems with Men's pro pool in the US. Because there is no men's pro pool in the US. The last time I checked, the MPBA and the Camel Tour, was the first and last time Men's pro pool in the US, was in existence and was pretty good.

Just look at the AZBs top 20. Not too many US players on that chart. I guess my point being that the rest of the world has taken over and the US is falling behind to compete (and make a living). Only a handful of players can keep up. There were a lot of top pool players in there 20's that are now in there mid 30's having to earn a living from a regular job. And partly because of that, pool rooms have closed due to lack of business. Less pool rooms means, tougher competition in the ones that are still in business. Only the strong will get by. Just like a poker player, you never want to play for cash against other good players when playing for money. The weak players is where they make their living.

Sorry, I guess I just blabbed a lot of stuff .....Disregard...:eek:
 
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