Rodney Morris Challenges the Top 25 European Players

[CJ Wiley]

Johnny will tell you himself that he would pick Rodney OR Dennis

There's too many threads to keep up with. But I'll say this, it relates to gambling and recent events. Last Wednesday night, Hatch came into the Euro party at the Mirage Beatles Revolution Bar, and was VERY well received. Well, well received until "the (soon to be passed by) incident". But before that...

Hatch, with the entire Euro team encircled - offered any Euro member: "any of you, $20K" Silence. Daz's lower lip didn't move. I'll never forget this. Anyone there won't dispute this.

The diff between gambling and tournies or M Cup, is perhaps a cultural thing IMO. US and Europe are geared differently. And I'd also have a hard time betting against Rodney vs any of them. Or Johnny, or Shane. You pick the line one on one.

Again, US players ARE geared differently.

Johnny, Rodney, Dennis, and I all grew up around the gambling days of pool. Tournaments were more about prestige and hearing people clap than playing your best pool. The races are to short too bring out the "Top Gear" in many players - just like any type of "racing," some are geared for "sprints," and others are "long distance runners".

We are all "long distance runners," although Johnny learned to sprint better than the rest of us from his desire to be an outstanding tournament player.....his record speaks for it's self. Johnny will tell you himself that he would pick Rodney OR Dennis over anyone that isn't from the Philippines playing a long "ahead set".

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Johnny, Rodney, Dennis, and I all grew up around the gambling days of pool. Tournaments were more about prestige and hearing people clap than playing your best pool. The races are to short too bring out the "Top Gear" in many players - just like any type of "racing," some are geared for "sprints," and others are "long distance runners".

We are all "long distance runners," although Johnny learned to sprint better than the rest of us from his desire to be an outstanding tournament player.....his record speaks for it's self. Johnny will tell you himself that he would pick Rodney OR Dennis over anyone that isn't from the Philippines playing a long "ahead set".

Long aheads... different animal than tourneys. What pays more rent on US soil today?

(answer: none of the above )

I'll lean more to any of our Cups handful of USA players in the long - one on one gambling sets vs any European player. I hope to see more foreigners get a chance to step up, preferrably on TAR, and prove me wrong. Again, we're geared differently.

AND, I'd love to see US win one M Cup in the next 5 years.

If wishes were horses...

 

[CJ Wiley]

Long aheads... different animal than tourneys. What pays more rent on US soil today?

(answer: none of the above )

I'll lean more to any of our Cups handful of USA players in the long - one on one gambling sets vs any European player. I hope to see more foreigners get a chance to step up, preferrably on TAR, and prove me wrong. Again, we're geared differently.

AND, I'd love to see US win one M Cup in the next 5 years.

If wishes were horses...

We easily could have won last year.....it came down to the last match.

 

[The Renfro]

There's too many threads to keep up with. But I'll say this, it relates to gambling and recent events. Last Wednesday night, Hatch came into the Euro party at the Mirage Beatles Revolution Bar, and was VERY well received. Well, well received until "the (soon to be passed by) incident". But before that...

Hatch, with the entire Euro team encircled - offered any Euro member: "any of you, $20K" Silence. Daz's lower lip didn't move. I'll never forget this. Anyone there won't dispute this.

The diff between gambling and tournies or M Cup, is perhaps a cultural thing IMO. US and Europe are geared differently. And I'd also have a hard time betting against Rodney vs any of them. Or Johnny, or Shane. You pick the line one on one.

Again, US players ARE geared differently.

c'mon man... Hatch won what 7500 for laying a goose egg? Where was he gonna come up with the other 12.5?

I'd have zero problem betting against Rodney or Hatch against any of them if they gambled but they don't so it's a moot point..

Shaw does and didn't make the Mosconi cup... TAR could bring Rodney in against Shaw week one and the Hatch week 2... I'd pay to see both of em get a dose of a euro that didn't even make the grade to be on the team....

Chris

 

[voiceofreason]

Johnny, Rodney, Dennis, and I all grew up around the gambling days of pool. Tournaments were more about prestige and hearing people clap than playing your best pool. The races are to short too bring out the "Top Gear" in many players - just like any type of "racing," some are geared for "sprints," and others are "long distance runners".

We are all "long distance runners," although Johnny learned to sprint better than the rest of us from his desire to be an outstanding tournament player.....his record speaks for it's self. Johnny will tell you himself that he would pick Rodney OR Dennis over anyone that isn't from the Philippines playing a long "ahead set".

That would imply that Darren, for example, has no experience playing long distance money matches. He in fact has an excellent record for playing for big money over long distances. Whilst it is correct to say that was at English 8 ball, the experience, knowledge and discipline required remains there.

I watched him play a match over 3 days once for £10,000. He's played many games with much higher purses than this..

Now that Darren has learnt to play American versions of pool, it is not a leap of faith or imagination to see him cleaning up in big money matches.

He has also in fact been quite open about his desire to get matches this year and even posted as such right here..

 

[ThePitster]

voiceofreason

Not so sure Darren Appleton is a big fan of long races over three days playing American pool.

If memory serves me right, he played a few three day races to 100 with decent money staked
in the early games hosted by TAR (I think without success).

I'm sure he said afterwards that he felt the format didn't suit him.

 

[ThePitster]

From the records under his profile for three day races to 100 = L L W

http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...r-13-dennis-hatch-vs-darren-appleton/results/

http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...-18-darren-appleton-vs-chris-bartram/results/

http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...lenge-scott-frost-vs-darren-appleton/results/

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Not so sure Darren Appleton is a big fan of long races over three days playing American pool.

Who is? What is the point of these marathon races?

 

[BeiberLvr]

Who is? What is the point of these marathon races?

The same reason the World Snooker finals are a best of 35 frames.

 

[sjm]

Who is? What is the point of these marathon races?

On the surface, there is no point to them. The longest race I can eve think of in a tournament final is the race to 17 final at the world 9-ball championships used for years. I think they've since shortened it, and to me, that makes sense. Winning the biggest championships tends to involve beating champion after champion having different styles while switching tables over and over.

Having said that, the long race has novelty value, and as TAR has clearly demonstrated, entertainment value, too. There is room in pool for such matches, and I admire and thank TAR for developing its worthwhile product, which I often purchase.

The long races against a single opponent on a single table are for entertainment. Tournaments are for finding out who is best, and the tougher the field, the more telling a tournament is.

The greatest players are the ones whose games travel well, from country to country, from tournament to tournament, and from table to table. Only a few are consistently up to this challenge, and many of them are already Hall of Famers.

 

[JAM]

On the surface, there is no point to them. The longest race I can eve think of in a tournament final is the race to 17 final at the world 9-ball championships used for years. I think they've since shortened it, and to me, that makes sense. Winning the biggest championships tends to involve beating champion after champion having different styles while switching tables over and over.

Having said that, the long race has novelty value, and as TAR has clearly demonstrated, entertainment value, too. There is room in pool for such matches, and I admire and thank TAR for developing its worthwhile product, which I often purchase.

The long races against a single opponent on a single table are for entertainment. Tournaments are for finding out who is best, and the tougher the field, the more telling a tournament is.

The greatest players are the ones whose games travel well, from country to country, from tournament to tournament, and from table to table. Only a few are consistently up to this challenge, and many of them are already Hall of Famers.

I agree that the long races are attractive to a subculture of diehard pool enthusiasts who enjoy this type of combat. Mainstream won't have the patience to watch such a long exhibition, however. I love pool, but I don't have that much time in my life to devote to watching long races.

For me, the greatest players are those who can play all games on all equipment and adapt quickly to new equipment. There are some great players today who are great at, hypotheticlaly speaking, 9-ball on 9-foot Diamond tables with Simonis cloth. I call them "one-trick ponies." There are other great players who can play all games on any equipment. The latter category of players, I think, are the best.

 

[sjm]

For me, the greatest players are those who can play all games on all equipment and adapt quickly to new equipment. There are some great players today who are great at, hypotheticlaly speaking, 9-ball on 9-foot Diamond tables with Simonis cloth. I call them "one-trick ponies." There are other great players who can play all games on any equipment. The latter category of players, I think, are the best.

Very nice post, and yes, I ought to have added to my post that the ability to compete across the disciplines within pool is one of the measures of a champion.

 

[BeiberLvr]

On the surface, there is no point to them. The longest race I can eve think of in a tournament final is the race to 17 final at the world 9-ball championships used for years. I think they've since shortened it, and to me, that makes sense. Winning the biggest championships tends to involve beating champion after champion having different styles while switching tables over and over.

Having said that, the long race has novelty value, and as TAR has clearly demonstrated, entertainment value, too. There is room in pool for such matches, and I admire and thank TAR for developing its worthwhile product, which I often purchase.

The long races against a single opponent on a single table are for entertainment. Tournaments are for finding out who is best, and the tougher the field, the more telling a tournament is.

The greatest players are the ones whose games travel well, from country to country, from tournament to tournament, and from table to table. Only a few are consistently up to this challenge, and many of them are already Hall of Famers.

Here's the thing. I actually think a tournament with an international field that is, say one race to 11, single elimination. Is way more pressure than any gambling match.

If you lose in that tournament, you're done. To me, that's a lot of pressure. When you lose in a gambling match, you just reach into your pocket, or most likely your backer's pocket and continue to play.

Now with that being said, I don't agree that these single elimination/race to 11 formats can determine the best player. Only because luck is too much of a factor. However, I also don't think we need to go to the extreme of playing a race to 100.

 

[sjm]

Here's the thing. I actually think a tournament with an international field that is, say one race to 11, single elimination. Is way more pressure than any gambling match.

If you lose in that tournament, you're done. To me, that's a lot of pressure. When you lose in a gambling match, you just reach into your pocket, or most likely your backer's pocket and continue to play.

Now with that being said, I don't agree that these single elimination/race to 11 formats can determine the best player. Only because luck is too much of a factor. However, I also don't think we need to go to the extreme of playing a race to 100.

Solid post, and the luck argument would seem to hold water, but in fact only a select few ever win the premier events. All the greats have played tens of thousands of races to nine or eleven in competition, and the cream has always risen to the top, and the top dogs seemingly win every major title in sight. In fact, when the Derby City Classic nine ball was a race to seven event, about ten in a row of them were won by Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers.

Short race events are the only way to determine champions and, as you say, the pressure is immense. Only a few are consistently good enough to deal with that pressure, but cinderellas win the big titles incredibly rarely, and that, to me, refutes the hypothesis that the races are too short.

 

[PINKLADY]

Solid post, and the luck argument would seem to hold water, but in fact only a select few ever win the premier events. All the greats have played tens of thousands of races to nine or eleven in competition, and the cream has always risen to the top, and the top dogs seemingly win every major title in sight. In fact, when the Derby City Classic nine ball was a race to seven event, about ten in a row of them were won by Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers.

Short race events are the only way to determine champions and, as you say, the pressure is immense. Only a few are consistently good enough to deal with that pressure, but cinderellas win the big titles incredibly rarely, and that, to me, refutes the hypothesis that the races are too short.

gr$$n for this

 

[Pathetic Shark]

The same reason the World Snooker finals are a best of 35 frames.

They used to play for weeks on end, I think. Nowadays, only the WCs are best of 35 - other finals are usually best of 19, played to a finish on one day.

But to compare the backstreet brawl of a gambling pool match to the snooker WC final is to compare a Rolf Harris with a Rembrandt.

I don't see the comparison at all. You start a race, you win or you lose. That's it. Game over.

 

[skogstokig]

The same reason the World Snooker finals are a best of 35 frames.

but that's only the WC, the other tourneys have way shorter distances than race to 18

shaping up, travelling and organizing a proper pro league with tournaments is the only way to go. these long distance one-on-one bouts on obscure PPV internet streams is (at best) a side alley.

 

[vagabond]

are you throwing that 3x5" g-string flag back onto the table????

Yes. By the way, Daz and Shane are matching up on TAR in the first week of Jan.

 

[real bartram]

Yes. By the way, Daz and Shane are matching up on TAR in the first week of Jan.

What will the game be ?

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Yes. By the way, Daz and Shane are matching up on TAR in the first week of Jan.

2nd behind Bartram. What's the format? I searched JCIN's posts, no mention. I went to www.theactionreport.com - no mention. Is vagabond letting the kat out of the bag? I'm guessing it's a 27, 27, 27 all around. Daz doesn't prefer long ones so much, and TAR has gone to this all around lately.

Justin?

(this would be awesome)