Ivory Ban

[CreeDo]

This is not a spam email. This is actually something that is going on with this task force. Here is a link to the executive order issued in July to create this task force. This may not only affect elephant ivory but also mammoth ivory. If this passes and you need a new ivory ferrule on your cue because you cracked it. Or if you want to sell your Grandma's Piano that had ivory keys. It would be illegal.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/01/executive-order-combating-wildlife-trafficking

Spam's what I call it when someone mass emails a bunch of people the same copied message
and that person doesn't know the people receiving it. Even if you like what they're selling.

So, did you read the order that you linked to?
Here's a summary.


Section 1. "We feel poaching is a big problem and we're going to take steps to fight it."
1a. If another country asks for help with wildlife tracking we'll help.
1b. We'll encourage other countries to pass and enforce laws to stop it.
1c. We'll partner with other countries to fight it.
1d. We'll seek to reduce the demand for illegally traded wildlife
but allow legitimate commerce involving wildlife.

Section 2. We're gonna establish a taskforce to come up with a strategy to fight wildlife trafficking.

Section 3. Here's who will be part of the taskforce.

Section 4. Here's what the taskforce will do:
4a. Meet within 180 days to talk about "issues relating to combating trafficking and curbing consumer demand, including:"

-support for anti-poaching activities
-coordinating regional law enforcement
-developing and supporting effective legal enforcement mechanisms
-developing strategies to reduce illicit trade and reduce consumer demand for trade in protected species

4b: We'll suggest adding a wildlife tracking section to the Federal Government's
Strategy to Combat Transnational Organized Crime.

4c: we'll coordinate the appropriate agencies to work with other countries in fighting wildlife trafficking.

4c: carry out other functions necessary to implement this order.

Section 5. Within 180 days the Secretary of the Interior will establish an Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking
to help the task force.

Sec. 6. General Provisions. All of this is subject to the usual domestic and international law,
and subject to getting funding.


tl;dr: The word ivory is mentioned zero times.
Nothing in here says there will be a ban on ivory.
The only words that might possibly suggest something RELATED to that,
state that they will "seek to reduce the demand for illegally traded wildlife".

This is not the same as banning ivory.
The guy who sent this spam is yelling "the sky is falling".

And honestly, tough titties about grandma's piano.

 

[Treadway Cues]

The wwf defines the wildlife trade as:

What is wildlife trade?

Whenever people sell or exchange wild animal and plant resources, this is wildlife trade. It can involve live animals and plants or all kinds of wild animal and plant products.

The Wildlife trade monitoring network defines the wildlife trade as:

Wildlife trade: what is it?

Wildlife trade is any sale or exchange of wild animal and plant resources by people. This can involve live animals and plants or a diverse range of products needed or prized by humans—including skins, medicinal ingredients, tourist curios, timber, fish and other food products. Most wildlife trade is probably within national borders, but there is a large volume of wildlife in trade internationally.

And yes I read the link. I do not post or talk about anything until I'm sure of the contents. I talked to David Warther who was in communication with a member of the Presidential Task Force. He told David that the task force is going to recommend that congress pass a law to outlaw the sale of all ivory. He also said that this could affect several woods as well. That is why there is nothing from Congress yet.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Actually, California already has that restriction. California Penal Code section 6530. It states that the sale of ivory, in any form, is illegal within California. The way I read it, ... l

That would be 653o (little "o" at the end).

If you want to see what the California Department of Fish and Game has to say about it, see:
https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=55137&inline=1

In part, that says:

California Penal Code section 653o was enacted in 1970 and amended in 1976 to include elephants. This section prohibits the importation, possession with intent to sell, and sale of any parts of specified animals, including elephants. However, an uncodified portion of the statute states that Penal Code section 653o does not apply to the sale of elephant items imported prior to June 1, 1977. In addition, federal courts have held that Penal Code section 653o is preempted by federal law with respect to its prohibition on trade in elephant products to the extent trade in elephant products is authorized pursuant to federal regulations or permits. See Man Hing Ivory & Imports, Inc. v. Deukmejian, 702 F.2d 760 (9th Cir. 1983).​

... so, it seems that you need to talk to your local DA to see how they will actually apply the law, if at all.

 

[JB Cases]

It will render them worthless. It will create a worse black market than already exists. And, this will include your grandmother's antique piano with ivory keys (okay, I stole that-it is still ridiculous). This is stupid, and yet another over-reaching of the government. I too, am for ending harvesting of new ivory. I support the idea of using ivory substitutes, even for renovation when necessary, but when the item in question is not damaged but simply has ivory in it?

Really?

No it won't render them worthless. A ban on ivory sales will make objects that have ivory in them worth more. It then becomes a major status symbol for people to own things that are "illegal". Those things go up in price.

Many illegal weed dealers complain about the fact that the price of weed has dropped to levels that are unprofitable for them due to the influx of legal weed.

The same thing applies to anything that is desirable. The harder it is to obtain the more the price goes up.

 

[FranCrimi]

I think that everyone who invested in ivory should watch a film on how those elephants are slaughtered. Then go back and figure out why you invested in ivory in the first place.

It's easy to support buying and selling of ivory, even old ivory, when you're so far removed from the brutality of that barbaric and horrific killing process.

 

[classiccues]

I think that everyone who invested in ivory should watch a film on how those elephants are slaughtered. Then go back and figure out why you invested in ivory in the first place.

It's easy to support buying and selling of ivory, even old ivory, when you're so far removed from the brutality of that barbaric and horrific killing process.

Really? Watch a video on the slaughter of domestic animals. If you're on the fence you'll become a vegan. Ever see a cow, chicken or pig get processed? You will never eat a sausage again.

If you're like me, it will just make you hungrier.

JV

 

[JB Cases]

And besides - it is loss of habitat, mostly due to human overpopulation,
that is the real reason for the plight of the elephant.

And... while I'm up on my soapbax, can we do away with the braying of
all these twits that recite the mantra:

people-only-want-ivory-because-it-is-rare-and-expensive.

I was a big fan of Ivory for Billiard related items when it sold for $20
a pound and you could buy a ton of it any day of the week.

Dale

You can't do away with that idea because it's true. The more rare ivory becomes the more expensive it gets and this feeds into a desire cycle.

Like it or not for at least the past twenty years ivory has been seen as a luxury material not a common one.

It is a status symbol material. And when countries like China become more affluent they drive demand for status symbols to incredible levels.

 

[JB Cases]

Really? Watch a video on the slaughter of domestic animals. If you're on the fence you'll become a vegan. Ever see a cow, chicken or pig get processed? You will never eat a sausage again.

If you're like me, it will just make you hungrier.

JV

I feel sick. I agree with Joe. The fact is that anyone who condemns the killing of animals for human pleasure has to also condemn the killing of them for human consumption.

 

[FranCrimi]

Really? Watch a video on the slaughter of domestic animals. If you're on the fence you'll become a vegan. Ever see a cow, chicken or pig get processed? You will never eat a sausage again.

If you're like me, it will just make you hungrier.

JV

Like I wrote. If anyone watches how these poor creatures are slaughtered simply for what grows out of their heads, it is so horrific, you will wonder why you even own a piece of it.

I used to think it was ok to own old ivory. Then I realized old ivory or new ivory --- it doesn't matter. The animals were still needlessly and brutally slaughtered. The old vs. new thing just means when we started to become aware of just how brutal that process really is.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I love ivory. I have it all over my cue. Moreover, I have Elephant skin on the handle.Feels so soft it could even be baby elephant, how bout that.
My next cue is going to be just a tusk with a kamui and a hoppe ring on it. You feel sorry for people who don't agree with you. I feel sorry for Norway.

You mean the Norway that's debt free, rich and prosperous, full of healthy, slim, sexy, educated and enlightened people, with the highest living standards in the world?

That Norway, yeah?

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I love it when people in another country/continent tell me how I need to have my priorities in my own country.....dude, you're a total trip. :thumbup:

The Taliban- big fan, are we? How about those commies in China? Or the drug lords in S America? How 'bout the child trafficking rings in SE Asia?

A total trip indeed.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

It is a status symbol material. And when countries like China become more affluent they drive demand for status symbols to incredible levels.

Indeed, which is why it's such a good idea for rich people in the {cough, cough} 'west' to change their ways.

To the greedy people of mother earth: China will rape the living shit out of you if you do not set them an example to follow. If WE do it, why shouldn't THEY?

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I feel sick. I agree with Joe. The fact is that anyone who condemns the killing of animals for human pleasure has to also condemn the killing of them for human consumption.

Possibly the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read on here - and I've been following your one pocket threads.

 

[classiccues]

Like I wrote. If anyone watches how these poor creatures are slaughtered simply for what grows out of their heads, it is so horrific, you will wonder why you even own a piece of it.

I used to think it was ok to own old ivory. Then I realized old ivory or new ivory --- it doesn't matter. The animals were still needlessly and brutally slaughtered. The old vs. new thing just means when we started to become aware of just how brutal that process really is.

Exactly.. those same people maybe sitting there eating a cheeseburger, or maybe some veal, or lamb. The point is that there is line for everyone, and it amazes me the amount of people that will condemn fur, ivory, and other goods yet sit there oblivious to the actual way ANY animal makes your dinner plate.

I am not for "new ivory slaughter" however to ban the antique stuff is stupid. Also to crush tons of ivory to "show 'dem poachers" is another fallacy. Dem poachers have to make quota and you just signed the death warrants for another 100 elephants. Its amazing that people think that burning, and crushing ivory actually changes the poachers mentality. You want to stop poaching, you go after the poachers, not their bounty. But like any police force its easier to confiscate (cheaper) than actually getting in the woods and fighting where the fight should take place.

Its like illegal whaling, you want to stop them, SINK the boats with the people on board. Watch how quick it stops.

JV

 

[classiccues]

You mean the Norway that's debt free, rich and prosperous, full of healthy, slim, sexy, educated and enlightened people, with the highest living standards in the world?

That Norway, yeah?

Well I will tell you what...

Let us evacuate certain people and get down to the same 15 people per square KM as Norway and I guarantee our problems will shrink equally with the decrease in population.

JV

 

[FranCrimi]

Exactly.. those same people maybe sitting there eating a cheeseburger, or maybe some veal, or lamb. The point is that there is line for everyone, and it amazes me the amount of people that will condemn fur, ivory, and other goods yet sit there oblivious to the actual way ANY animal makes your dinner plate.

I am not for "new ivory slaughter" however to ban the antique stuff is stupid. Also to crush tons of ivory to "show 'dem poachers" is another fallacy. Dem poachers have to make quota and you just signed the death warrants for another 100 elephants. Its amazing that people think that burning, and crushing ivory actually changes the poachers mentality. You want to stop poaching, you go after the poachers, not their bounty. But like any police force its easier to confiscate (cheaper) than actually getting in the woods and fighting where the fight should take place.

Its like illegal whaling, you want to stop them, SINK the boats with the people on board. Watch how quick it stops.

JV

I would love to see every piece of ivory in the world that's not attached to a living animal, destroyed.

Sometimes an old house just can't be repaired anymore. It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

That goes for pool, too.

 

[classiccues]

I would love to see every piece of ivory in the world that's not attached to a living animal, destroyed.

Sometimes an old house just can't be repaired anymore. It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

That goes for pool, too.

That's ok.. I am sure every cow / bull in a slaughter house wishes they were t-rex's, but they aren't.

I would love to see a lot of laws enforced, but that is not going to happen. Enforce what's on the books already and you'll see a huge drop in elephant kills as well as any type of illegal trade. But there are other factors at play.

JV

 

[franko]

Agree

i disagree in that someone who possess ivory now will find that their value will actually increase. whenever the gov't outlaws something or forbids their populace to own or sell something, that "forbidden fruit" becomes more valuable. Prohibition, war on drugs, exotic animals, cigars, and on and on.

if people want something the market will provide ... it wll be an open market or a black market or even both. the sky is not falling to all the chicken littles.

I tend to agree with this, people want what they can't have.It would also increase in person sales while decreasing on line sales.It would attract more buyers to cue shows and most deals would take place behind closed doors.I for one can not believe how our country has and is changing in the last FIVE years, it is scary.I hope everyone wakes up in Nov. 2014.

 

[FranCrimi]

I tend to agree with this, people want what they can't have.It would also increase in person sales while decreasing on line sales.It would attract more buyers to cue shows and most deals would take place behind closed doors.I for one can not believe how our country has and is changing in the last FIVE years, it is scary.I hope everyone wakes up in Nov. 2014.

Not really. Have you seen what happened to the tobacciana antique market? The value of antique smoking-related items have drastically dropped in the wake of the mass anti-smoking campaigns.

 

[spktur]

A couple of thoughts on this. To save the elephants make poaching and trafficking in poached ivory a death penalty offense. This will help to protect the elephants and reduce the population to make more room for the elephants. As for Fran's comments regard the video, I will pay more attention to her opinion when she quits eating meat/meat products wearing leather and using make up.