Ivory Ban

[YubaCushion]

You mean the Norway that's debt free, rich and prosperous, full of healthy, slim, sexy, educated and enlightened people, with the highest living standards in the world?

That Norway, yeah?

I feel sorry for Norway because that guy lives there. Is that where all the enlightened people come from. I thought the just produced oil and gas.

 

[classiccues]

Not really. Have you seen what happened to the tobacciana antique market? The value of antique smoking-related items have drastically dropped in the wake of the mass anti-smoking campaigns.

First off, antique pipes, are a lot like cues. The real good ones, ironically some are ivory, still have a great ceiling. But ALL collectible markets have been hit, but mostly because of the economy. People who stopped smoking didn't help, just as people who have stopped playing pool haven't helped pool. (neither has the anti-smoking campaign helped pool)

Its like saying baseball cards took a dump because of steroids, not true. A glut in the market place, lack of interest, and collectors started realizing their retirements were not going to be on the back of Derek Jeter.

So many cues have ivory, all deals will still take place, and out of site. We all have e-mail, deals will get done, all will go on.

You want to stop poaching, make poachers heads, per pound, more than ivory, and it will stop.

JV

 

[JB Cases]

Indeed, which is why it's such a good idea for rich people in the {cough, cough} 'west' to change their ways.

To the greedy people of mother earth: China will rape the living shit out of you if you do not set them an example to follow. If WE do it, why shouldn't THEY?

Just an FYI - China was already civilized and navigating the ocean while the "west" was still thinking the world was flat.

They are not following the West's lead when it comes to ivory. There are ivory pieces in China that are far older than the United States and most countries in Europe.

 

[FranCrimi]

First off, antique pipes, are a lot like cues. The real good ones, ironically some are ivory, still have a great ceiling. But ALL collectible markets have been hit, but mostly because of the economy. People who stopped smoking didn't help, just as people who have stopped playing pool haven't helped pool. (neither has the anti-smoking campaign helped pool)

Its like saying baseball cards took a dump because of steroids, not true. A glut in the market place, lack of interest, and collectors started realizing their retirements were not going to be on the back of Derek Jeter.

So many cues have ivory, all deals will still take place, and out of site. We all have e-mail, deals will get done, all will go on.

You want to stop poaching, make poachers heads, per pound, more than ivory, and it will stop.

JV

No, I don't think so. I think the ivory market will take a serious dive as more and more people around the world grasp just how they horrifically slaughter elephants for their tusks. Like it or not, it's just a matter of time. I'd rather it was sooner than later, though, unfortunately, for the elephants who have yet to be slaughtered.

 

[dr9ball]

No, I don't think so. I think the ivory market will take a serious dive as more and more people around the world grasp just how they horrifically slaughter elephants for their tusks. Like it or not, it's just a matter of time. I'd rather it was sooner than later, though, unfortunately, for the elephants who have yet to be slaughtered.

Many people that dwell in cities and suburbs might be shocked if they saw how cattle, sheep, chickens and any number of animals are slaughtered for our consumption and other needs. People have gotten too far away from the source of their food. But killing an animal whether it be an elephant or a cow is still killing. It's not kind to either animal but it is interesting to see some animals are elevated onto a pedestal while others are gobbled up for dinner and lunch.

Think of all those poor pigs who provide our bacon and the pigskin for our tips. Maybe we should boycott leather tips, there are far more leather tips than ivory ferrules in the pool world and there are synthetic substitutes as some have said before. If there's a synthetic why have the real thing?


I understand your point, but the killing of an elephant is no less brutal than what we do to pigs, cattle and chickens in my opinion.

 

[Kim Bye]

First off, antique pipes, are a lot like cues. The real good ones, ironically some are ivory, still have a great ceiling. But ALL collectible markets have been hit, but mostly because of the economy. People who stopped smoking didn't help, just as people who have stopped playing pool haven't helped pool. (neither has the anti-smoking campaign helped pool)

Its like saying baseball cards took a dump because of steroids, not true. A glut in the market place, lack of interest, and collectors started realizing their retirements were not going to be on the back of Derek Jeter.

So many cues have ivory, all deals will still take place, and out of site. We all have e-mail, deals will get done, all will go on.

You want to stop poaching, make poachers heads, per pound, more than ivory, and it will stop.

JV

Yes, of course, more killing that`s the answer...
Stop making this a American, Norwegian or whatever issue - It`s a global issue!
I have NO idea what baseball cards or smoking has to do with this debate at all? It seems your going off on a tangent.
It`s not just the beautifull elephant that suffers from this meaningless ivory obsession, It`s tigers, rhinos, sharks and many other animals that are being used for eastern "medicine"
The only thing we can do is to come up with rules that makes illegal trading unapealing for criminals by handing out long sentences, run information campains in the countries that uses these animals as part of their "medicine" and to support organisations that works for animal rights.

 

[classiccues]

No, I don't think so. I think the ivory market will take a serious dive as more and more people around the world grasp just how they horrifically slaughter elephants for their tusks. Like it or not, it's just a matter of time. I'd rather it was sooner than later, though, unfortunately, for the elephants who have yet to be slaughtered.

You absolutely do not get it. Elephants, pigs, cows, chickens, they are all SLAUGHTERED. Peta can't put a dent in Tysons chicken output even with all the bad press about the treatment of chickens.

It won't stop until one of two things happen...

No more elephants or no more poachers.

Why? Because there will always be demand, legal or illegal.

JV

 

[classiccues]

Yes, of course, more killing that`s the answer...
Stop making this a American, Norwegian or whatever issue - It`s a global issue!
I have NO idea what baseball cards or smoking has to do with this debate at all? It seems your going off on a tangent.
It`s not just the beautifull elephant that suffers from this meaningless ivory obsession, It`s tigers, rhinos, sharks and many other animals that are being used for eastern "medicine"
The only thing we can do is to come up with rules that makes illegal trading unapealing for criminals by handing out long sentences, run information campains in the countries that uses these animals as part of their "medicine" and to support organisations that works for animal rights.

No, I answered a question about another collectible posted by someone else.

So you think that the Chinese, Japanese et al, haven't heard that Tiger penis isn't going to make their penis' harder? Or that shark skin soup doesn't really heal arthritis? Of course they have, and you think it will change their way of thinking?

Longer sentences...ROTFLMAO Life is a pretty long sentence right? We give LIFE out for murderers quite often... how has that been at stopping criminals?


JV

 

[YubaCushion]

Yes, of course, more killing that`s the answer...
Stop making this a American, Norwegian or whatever issue - It`s a global issue!
I have NO idea what baseball cards or smoking has to do with this debate at all? It seems your going off on a tangent.
It`s not just the beautifull elephant that suffers from this meaningless ivory obsession, It`s tigers, rhinos, sharks and many other animals that are being used for eastern "medicine"
The only thing we can do is to come up with rules that makes illegal trading unapealing for criminals by handing out long sentences, run information campains in the countries that uses these animals as part of their "medicine" and to support organisations that works for animal rights.

Naive Euro, rules don't work on people who don't care.
Let me help you understand the options for eliminating illegal trade.
1. Eliminate the supply.
2. Eliminate the demand.
3. STFU and do something constructive with your time.

 

[Lesh]

MMMmmmmyeah I know its bad for the environment, blah blah blah.... Gimme a cheezeburger you pinko Commie Tree Hugger! Before I run you over with my 1858 Cadillac!

 

[FranCrimi]

Many people that dwell in cities and suburbs might be shocked if they saw how cattle, sheep, chickens and any number of animals are slaughtered for our consumption and other needs. People have gotten too far away from the source of their food. But killing an animal whether it be an elephant or a cow is still killing. It's not kind to either animal but it is interesting to see some animals are elevated onto a pedestal while others are gobbled up for dinner and lunch.

Think of all those poor pigs who provide our bacon and the pigskin for our tips. Maybe we should boycott leather tips, there are far more leather tips than ivory ferrules in the pool world and there are synthetic substitutes as some have said before. If there's a synthetic why have the real thing?


I understand your point, but the killing of an elephant is no less brutal than what we do to pigs, cattle and chickens in my opinion.

Have you watched videos of elephants with their tusks removed, laying there, dying? It's horrific and totally unnecessary. We don't need ivory.

 

[UGOTDA7]

You mean the Norway that's debt free, rich and prosperous, full of healthy, slim, sexy, educated and enlightened people, with the highest living standards in the world?

That Norway, yeah?

Norway who? The irrelevant one? That Norway, yeah?

 

[franko]

All for

Have you watched videos of elephants with their tusks removed, laying there, dying? It's horrific and totally unnecessary. We don't need ivory.

I am all for a ban on future Ivory, but I do not see the benefit of punishing those who purchased items with pre ban Ivory from selling them.I would not be surprised to see the Govt. in the 11th. Hour allow sales of pre ban Ivory as long as the proper paperwork is filled out and a new tax is added so they get their share.It seems that all the warm and fuzzy stuff initiated by our politicians ends up a $ grab for them. JMO.

 

[FranCrimi]

I am all for a ban on future Ivory, but I do not see the benefit of punishing those who purchased items with pre ban Ivory from selling them.I would not be surprised to see the Govt. in the 11th. Hour allow sales of pre ban Ivory as long as the proper paperwork is filled out and a new tax is added so they get their share.It seems that all the warm and fuzzy stuff initiated by our politicians ends up a $ grab for them. JMO.

I used to rationalize the same way. But then I realized that it was still obtained the same barbaric way, even though it was before the ban. Like I wrote before, pre and post ban only really mean pre and post acknowledgment of the atrocity of the act.

 

[poolrod]

We can just give our cues away, then someone can just give us money.:thumbup:

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Norway who? The irrelevant one? That Norway, yeah?

Yes. The Norway that's so irrelevant people get upset over its inhabitants expressing an honest opinion.

How is your national debt these days? Still doing tremendously well? If you're lucky, and ask nicely, the irrelevant Norway may give you a loan.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Why? Because there will always be demand, legal or illegal.

There will always be demand IF YOU FUEL IT.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Just an FYI - China was already civilized and navigating the ocean while the "west" was still thinking the world was flat.

They are not following the West's lead when it comes to ivory. There are ivory pieces in China that are far older than the United States and most countries in Europe.

What is your point here?

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Well I will tell you what...

Let us evacuate certain people and get down to the same 15 people per square KM as Norway and I guarantee our problems will shrink equally with the decrease in population.

JV

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[dr9ball]

Have you watched videos of elephants with their tusks removed, laying there, dying? It's horrific and totally unnecessary. We don't need ivory.

I've killed enough animals growing up on a farm. I don't need to watch a video. It's all horrific and unnecessary yet virtually everyone likes chicken soup and many love their steak and ribs, ham, turkey etc.

Given your logic, we should totally ban fishing, have you seen the fish lying on the boat suffocating? Live lobster in boiling water,? to quote you. "It's horrific and totally unnecessary."

Have you ever killed anything and eaten it? Have you killed something and watched it die then cut it up and cook it? How can you eat meat if you haven't? How can you eat meat if you have? How can you wear leather shoes or leather coats or carry a leather handbag?

IF you're going to say killing one animal for humans to use its body is wrong, shouldn't there be a universal standard for all animals? Why the hypocrisy? How can you chose just a handful or only one animal that you're going to try to protect?

We could equally apply the same logic to the use of pesticides that kill the cockroaches that like to live in people's houses, the ants that enter our yards and homes. Yet we crush them under our heels and poison them in their homes.
Because they are small and we can't hear their cries, does that make it less horrific?

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I'll defend your right to say it but I'm not going to agree with you on this one