2F9B - Listen to Keith McCready's Thoughts
- Thread starter HawaiianEye
- Start date
.now that it's obvious the question is "when will it change?"
"The Bushwhacker" was his nickname, and he could "dab it".
Keith is form the "old school" that I caught the tail end of....with Omaha John, Surfer Rod, Weldon Rogers, David Matlock, Buddy Hall, Dennis Searcy, Billy Johnson, etc.
The ALL knew how to play 'Two Shot Roll Out (Shoot Out)" really, well, and will ALL tell you it's 10 times better than one foul....yes, maybe a few will say 100 times better....and mean it!!!
The game changed, it de evolved with the rules to speed up play and make it "fair" against the elite players......now that it's obvious the question is "when will it change?"
'The Game is the Teacher'
In this Accu-Stats X-rated video, both Gary and Keith have long hair, looking very much like Woodstock alumni.
Gary allowed me to snap his photo at a Super Billiards Expo in early 2000s. Very sweet man. :smile:
"The Bushwhacker" was his nickname, and he could "dab it".
Keith is form the "old school" that I caught the tail end of....with Omaha John, Surfer Rod, Weldon Rogers, David Matlock, Buddy Hall, Dennis Searcy, Billy Johnson, etc.
The ALL knew how to play 'Two Shot Roll Out (Shoot Out)" really, well, and will ALL tell you it's 10 times better than one foul....yes, maybe a few will say 100 times better....and mean it!!!
The game changed, it de evolved with the rules to speed up play and make it "fair" against the elite players......now that it's obvious the question is "when will it change?"
'The Game is the Teacher'
http://www.americanbilliardradio.com/
This is the REAL DEAL from SOMEBODY who KNOWS what he is talking about.
2F9B separates the men from the boys IMHO when it comes to the higher levels of playing.
If you don't want to listen to the whole broadcast to hear this, listen about the 28 minute mark.
Keith is one cool mother bugger, love that man!
Hi JAM,
To me it shouldn't make a difference to Pat Fleming or not. I mean it's not like it's the hottest selling accu stats DVD out there, and by putting it out there it would bring more people who either aren't customers of accustats or those who haven't bought anything in a long time and want to buy a few things.
Bad call on Pat's part. Real bad call. Not many legends left, Keith is one.
To me it shouldn't make a difference to Pat Fleming or not. I mean it's not like it's the hottest selling accu stats DVD out there, and by putting it out there it would bring more people who either aren't customers of accustats or those who haven't bought anything in a long time and want to buy a few things.
Bad call on Pat's part. Real bad call. Not many legends left, Keith is one.
I am going to see if this works. I re-recorded the audio only of the very first sentence of the match. It is an MP3 file. I couldn't attach it to this forum's software as an attachment, so I sent it to myself via an FTP. It is very short: 37 seconds. You can download it and hear it. You will soon realize why it's X-rated.
I will write to Pat Fleming again and ask if he has this DVD available for sale, or if not, may I please post a portion of the video. I don't want to step on any toes, as I respect Pat and all he has done for the pool world.
Actually, just listening to the match, like a radio broadcast, is just as delicous.
HERE
The ALL knew how to play 'Two Shot Roll Out (Shoot Out)" really, well, and will ALL tell you it's 10 times better than one foul....yes, maybe a few will say 100 times better....and mean it!!!
The game changed, it de evolved with the rules to speed up play and make it "fair" against the elite players......now that it's obvious the question is "when will it change?"
-from CJ
I posted about finding out the "official" rules of "Two Shot Roll Out" the other day but didn't get a response. Would CJ or another proponent of the game post the rules including all differences from modern 9 ball? I think that would help spark interest and get people playing.
The game changed, it de evolved with the rules to speed up play and make it "fair" against the elite players......now that it's obvious the question is "when will it change?"
-from CJ
I posted about finding out the "official" rules of "Two Shot Roll Out" the other day but didn't get a response. Would CJ or another proponent of the game post the rules including all differences from modern 9 ball? I think that would help spark interest and get people playing.
I'll try to get Keith to post later today when he wakes up. C.J. will probalby be chiming in too.
I would love to see a competition with these rules. It's out there, waiting to happen, and nobody's done it yet. I think it will sell, especially with the right players in the box.
It's unique, innovative, and different, but not so different like Bonus Ball. People with a modicum of understanding pool games will still be able to follow the rules, I hope.
I'll try to get Keith to post later today when he wakes up. C.J. will probalby be chiming in too.
I would love to see a competition with these rules. It's out there, waiting to happen, and nobody's done it yet. I think it will sell, especially with the right players in the box.
It's unique, innovative, and different, but not so different like Bonus Ball. People with a modicum of understanding pool games will still be able to follow the rules, I hope.
Iam thinking if this tournament does happen, that 2 foul push out can and will make a come back.
What pool player wants to lose his money on a bad roll, come on push out is the game of champions!
Who wants their opponent to miss a shot and then have the q ball roll up froze behind another ball, and then have that mess for your next shot and lose after you miss the very tough kick.
Play 2 foul, then it doesnt matter where your opponent mite leave the qball by luck, now the better player will take over!
PUSH OUT FOR THE FUTURE, I HOPE!
You won't find those rules online, they were around long, long before the Internet. And, there won't be anything "official". The rules varied whether you were playing any two fouls or two by the same player. Simply put, you could push out anytime there was no foul prior to pushing out. Pushing after a foul was a second foul and after two fouls the incoming player got ball in hand anywhere. As you've probably seen by now, this has been done about forever. It's still my opinion that changing back to push out rules would have people giving up 9 ball in droves. You have to actually THINK playing that game. I did a rather lengthy post on that on the old usenet newsgroup rec.sport. billiard years ago.
Another thing I feel is getting over-looked or not being considered is when your opponent is in offense mode you can't defend yourself and when your opponent decides to play safe your ONLY option when you get to the table is to kick. I truly feel any 2F9B rules bring a balance to 9-ball that makes the game a more complete and truer competition.
Correction please
Originally Posted by JAM View Post
There's an X-rated DVD with Keith playing Bushwacker, with Grady Mathews commentating. You have to see *and* hear it to believe it.
A lady came in the booth with Grady whose name escapes me. I want to say Peg Led-something. Anyway, Keith said she was tailgaiting him at every tournament, ready to fine him if he was out of line. Whatever table Keith was playing on, her eyes were right on Keith.
Keith didn't have too many good words to say about her, but I guess the effect was that Keith behaved himself
DRW, I talked to Peg Ledman tonight about the incident. She was never in that situation and doesn't have a clue of the incident to which you refer.
Would you give some details or correct your post. Peg is a fine person and very professional as the manager of JOB Billiards.
Tennesseejoe
Peg Ledman, Jennie.
Originally Posted by JAM View Post
There's an X-rated DVD with Keith playing Bushwacker, with Grady Mathews commentating. You have to see *and* hear it to believe it.
A lady came in the booth with Grady whose name escapes me. I want to say Peg Led-something. Anyway, Keith said she was tailgaiting him at every tournament, ready to fine him if he was out of line. Whatever table Keith was playing on, her eyes were right on Keith.
Keith didn't have too many good words to say about her, but I guess the effect was that Keith behaved himself
DRW, I talked to Peg Ledman tonight about the incident. She was never in that situation and doesn't have a clue of the incident to which you refer.
Would you give some details or correct your post. Peg is a fine person and very professional as the manager of JOB Billiards.
Tennesseejoe
Two Shot Shoot Out - 2 Foul 9 Ball
I should get Keith and make a 2 Shot video on the rules and how to play at the beginner, and advanced levels. Keith knows the game really well too, it's all we used to play when the majority of gambling was going on in the USA.
The rules are pretty simple, although they do have some rules differences depending on what part of the country you were playing in. The main difference was if it was "two fouls by the same person," or "any two fouls".
Here are the rules that we generally played in gambling games:
1) Any two fouls is ball in hand (this means there's no "re roll outs).
2) Only spot the "ball before the money ball" - the "money ball" is usually the 9 ball unless someone's getting a spot, so if they're getting the "7 Ball" the 6 or 5 (etc) would spot if the guy giving up the "weight" scratched.
3) On any scratch it's "cue ball in hand behind the line" unless the scratch is the second foul.
4) I have played 3 foul loss of game, and that's optional.
5) Usually they play if a ball's froze to the rail it "kills" that rail and you have to drive the ball into another one.
Those are the main rules differences between "one foul" and 'Two Shot Shoot Out' (2 foul). There are others but I'm too tired to get too specific right now, it's been a long day......hope that helps for now, I'll be glad to answer any questions in the morning.
Play Well
I should get Keith and make a 2 Shot video on the rules and how to play at the beginner, and advanced levels. Keith knows the game really well too, it's all we used to play when the majority of gambling was going on in the USA.
The rules are pretty simple, although they do have some rules differences depending on what part of the country you were playing in. The main difference was if it was "two fouls by the same person," or "any two fouls".
Here are the rules that we generally played in gambling games:
1) Any two fouls is ball in hand (this means there's no "re roll outs).
2) Only spot the "ball before the money ball" - the "money ball" is usually the 9 ball unless someone's getting a spot, so if they're getting the "7 Ball" the 6 or 5 (etc) would spot if the guy giving up the "weight" scratched.
3) On any scratch it's "cue ball in hand behind the line" unless the scratch is the second foul.
4) I have played 3 foul loss of game, and that's optional.
5) Usually they play if a ball's froze to the rail it "kills" that rail and you have to drive the ball into another one.
Those are the main rules differences between "one foul" and 'Two Shot Shoot Out' (2 foul). There are others but I'm too tired to get too specific right now, it's been a long day......hope that helps for now, I'll be glad to answer any questions in the morning.
Play Well
Does slop count or is it call-the-pocket?
Agreed.
Keith has said when they went away from this format it really hurt his game.
I have been around pool quite a few years and I have never seen it played, but often talked about.
Seeing that you favor it, and Keith favors it, seems like a natual.
Ken
I'd buy this for sure. Just seeing you two play would be awesome. Thanks!
I really really like the scratch/shoot in the kitchen rule and VERY much like the call on if the object ball is frozen on the rail that it kills the rail and they have to send something to another rail. No more rill-up in the object ball and sit.... tap tap tap tap tap tap tap. Imma pool player, not a woodpecker.
Lesh
Lesh
I played it for MANY years and NEVER played the version where a person could do that. We played where you HAD to hit another rail also, like you said. I may have played a couple different versions over the years, but they were so infrequent that it doesn't make me recall them at the moment. The hit ANOTHER rail rule was the way EVERY player of the higher caliber wanted to play when it was for the CASH.
Aloha.
On a scratch, all the balls except the ball before the money were usually dropped. The ball before the money got spotted. We used to practice spot shots for position all the time. After all, you only needed to run two balls to get paid. Doesn't matter if you dogged the first part of the rack. :smile:
Best,
Mike
JAM -
I looked on Accu-Stats website.
I cant find DVD you are mentioning with Keith and Gary.
Ken
Yes, it is not for sale anymore, hasn't been for many years. You see, this is why it's a bummer. The fact that it is not for sale anymore, yet there are folks who want to see it. I contacted Pat Fleming last October to ask permission to post the video on YouTube, but he said he would rather I did not. So I must respect his wishes.