Men vs. women

Donny Lutz

Donny Lutz

Ferrule Cat
Silver Member
I fully understand that most men are unable to shake loose the illusion of male superiority, and I'm prepared for the attacks when I address such issues.

But watching the incredible improvement of women's play in recent years, especially the Asian women, I'm compelled to pose a question.

If you took the top 10 women players in the world, say Kelly and Allison Fisher, Jasmine Ouschan, Ga Young Kim, Siming Chen, Rubilen Amit, Pei Chen Tsai, Sha Sha Liu, Zhi Ting Wu and Bi Zhu Qing, and matched them up against any 10 American men, how do you think they would do?

Could the men match the team spirit exhibited by the women? Their composure and positive attitude? Could the men handle the pressure of this challenge to their "manhood"?
 
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If the women are from the USA, they wouldn't have a chance. If they are from a different country, they have more of a chance but still will not beat men in the USA.:sorry:



I haven't seen the women play much but would love to see the challenge.
 
I had this nice, long, well thought out reply written and I just deleted it. I'm not going to touch this one with a 10 foot pool cue.
 
I'll take a stab at this.

If it's 9 ball you are talking about and it's setup in a short race format -- then the women would have a chance and yes the men would have a hard time matching their female counterparts team spirit and overall professionalism. It's actually not a bad idea for an event. It sure would be a good way to get people to watch pool.

And while I agree with you that the women have improved by leaps and bounds over the course of the past 20 years they still are not and will never be as good as the men -- generally speaking. Men will always have slight physiological advantages when it comes to strength, speed, and overall eye-hand coordination. That's just the way it is. These slight advantages make a difference when you are comparing two individuals that are dedicating the same amount of time to a game. I mention this not to diminish the accomplishments of the women but to celebrate them. Men and women are different and there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging this. Women should not have to compete against the men in order to prove how good they are.

Maybe I just need to shake loose my illusion of male superiority. Maybe someday I will.
 
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Donny Lutz said:
I fully understand that most men are unable to shake loose the illusion of male superiority, and I'm prepared for the attacks when I address such issues.
Click to expand...

We need a definition of 'the illusion of male superiority'....
...are you sure that it's an illusion?
 
women

Women play in open events all the time. They just in general can't get there against a field of top male pros. I know Chris b was ready to play Kelly F and wanted to bet a lot. When Jeanette has come to town she plays shortstops even but gets good weight from Justin. I don't think personally the women would fair well even against a field of young champs aka the Chip and Joey etc... of the pool world much less Shane / Archer tiers
 
Physiological advantage?

BasementDweller said:
I take a stab at this.

If it's 9 ball you are talking about and it's setup in a short race format -- then the women would have a chance and yes the men would have a hard time matching their female counterparts team spirit and overall professionalism. It's actually not a bad idea for an event. It sure would be an good way to get people to watch pool.

And while I agree with you that the women have improved by leaps and bounds over the course of the past 20 years they still are not and will never be as good as the men -- generally speaking. Men will always have slight physiological advantages when it comes to strength, speed, and overall eye-hand coordination. That's just the way it is. These slight advantages make a difference when you are comparing two individuals that are dedicating the same amount of time to a game. I mention this not to diminish the accomplishments of the women but to celebrate them. Men and women are different and there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging this. Women should not have to compete against the men in order to prove how good they are.

Maybe I just need to shake loose my illusion of male superiority. Maybe someday I will.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I don't however, buy the idea of "physiological advantage". Why is size and strength an advantage in pool? Some of the tiniest men are great players.

Look at other sports. Hank Aaron was diminutive compared to most home run legends, but he was one of the greatest power hitters ever. Would a 300 lb. lineman kick Bruce Lee's butt because of his "physiological advantage"?
 
Haven't seen, but "know"?

poolguy4u said:
If the women are from the USA, they wouldn't have a chance. If they are from a different country, they have more of a chance but still will not beat men in the USA.:sorry:

I haven't seen the women play much but would love to see the challenge.
Click to expand...

If you haven't seen the women play much, how can you know they "will not beat men in the USA"?
 
Male "superiority"

pt109 said:
We need a definition of 'the illusion of male superiority'....
...are you sure that it's an illusion?
Click to expand...

I base my views on many years of study in the fields of Psychology, History, Cultural Anthropology and other disciplines.

Men have hung on to the illusion for millennia, mostly because the voices and views of women have been suppressed, mostly by religious dogma.
 
Women in open events

bmsclayton said:
Women play in open events all the time. They just in general can't get there against a field of top male pros. I know Chris b was ready to play Kelly F and wanted to bet a lot. When Jeanette has come to town she plays shortstops even but gets good weight from Justin. I don't think personally the women would fair well even against a field of young champs aka the Chip and Joey etc... of the pool world much less Shane / Archer tiers
Click to expand...

If there's one women in a field of let's say 32 players, the odds are against her just as they are against any individual man in that field. If there were 16 women in that field, their odds would be better, no?

I've seen men's tournaments over the years in which a woman was blatantly insulted and sharked by the men, and the men laughed about it. Makes it tough for a woman to get a fair shake. This is slowly changing.

You're also talking about two completely different things when you mention gambling as opposed to tournaments or events like the Mosconi Cup.

Men in the US are not doing such a great job as players, owners or promoters. That's a main reason I see women as the future of pool. They tend to be more humble, friendly and cooperative. We need more of this...
 
It would be a good match, if, they were playing short stop speed male US players. That's not male superiority or any gender bias, it's simply the truth.
 
Donny Lutz said:
I base my views on many years of study in the fields of Psychology, History, Cultural Anthropology and other disciplines.

Men have hung on to the illusion for millennia, mostly because the voices and views of women have been suppressed, mostly by religious dogma.
Click to expand...

I'm speaking of only in the billiard field.
Results dispel any illusions of who is better.

I consider men and women equal....but different.
I don't think women should try to play like men...we have different strengths.

A woman could become a top one-pocket or straight pool player....
...but it will have to be 'tai chi' style...not the 'bull in a china shop' style
that men have.

Pool is an elitist game...the 'best' is not determined by democratic methods.
 
Is this men vs women or american men vs women?

It never ceases to amaze me how people draw the distinction. Consider this, if you tallied up all of them women who played and all the men who played and then weigh that vs level of skill I think that you would find that percentage wise women are actually better players.

Example, in town xyz there are 350 players, 300 of them are men and 50 are women. I would bet that the percentage of women players that are serious students of the game far out way the mob of male bangers.

Are there more male pros out there... yup, but when you figure the well that they are drawing from is much deeper than the females you will start to get what I am saying.

Now on to your original question, If you took the top 10 women players in the world, say Kelly and Allison Fisher, Jasmine Ouschan, Ga Young Kim, Siming Chen, Rubilen Amit, Pei Chen Tsai, Sha Sha Liu, Zhi Ting Wu and Bi Zhu Qing, and matched them up against any 10 American men, how do you think they would do?

Not sure but I think it would end up a lot closer than most want to admit. It would really depend on how you matched them up and what game they are playing and where.
 
Efren played Karen Corr in 9 ball at the derby and Efren won 9-2. Next round Karen played Jason Shaw and lost 9-7. I know a lot of the women are getting better, but I don't think they can consistantly beat male pros. Just realality.
 
The women are at too big of a disadvantage, especially in the break department. Years ago Efren played Jennette in the Philippines and beat her with complete ease. He was goofing off most of the match also, you could just tell it in his demeanor.
 
Donny Lutz said:
I fully understand that most men are unable to shake loose the illusion of male superiority, and I'm prepared for the attacks when I address such issues.

But watching the incredible improvement of women's play in recent years, especially the Asian women, I'm compelled to pose a question.

If you took the top 10 women players in the world, say Kelly and Allison Fisher, Jasmine Ouschan, Ga Young Kim, Siming Chen, Rubilen Amit, Pei Chen Tsai, Sha Sha Liu, Zhi Ting Wu and Bi Zhu Qing, and matched them up against any 10 American men, how do you think they would do?

Could the men match the team spirit exhibited by the women? Their composure and positive attitude? Could the men handle the pressure of this challenge to their "manhood"?
Click to expand...

Whether you intended to or not…never mind.

Seriously dude, just don't
 
Aren't there Accu stats for men and women? Wouldn't that give more perspective.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
vs "any ten American men"? What kind of question is that?

I can pick more groups of ten men that cant win than can. That's for sure.
 
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