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What Do You Look for in Billiard Instruction?
- Thread starter Fast Lenny
- Start date
Well, let's see...
Jerry said, "You're one of 4 people in the world that I would recommend."
Mark said, "You're one of very few people I would recommend as a great instructor."
Joe said, "If you don't work with Scott Lee, you must be mad at your money!"
See Blackjack's latest quote on FB for his take.
Stan and I have been friends, colleagues and respected instructors for more than 20 years (I worked with Landon too). I'll be at his house, at his request, working with him next week.
It's not ego...it's a simple fact that those people, my industry peers, consider me, and randyg, to be part of an important community...which I consider an honor and a privilege. My students have won state, regional and national titles in several disciplines, over the past 3 decades. If you think you have to be a national champion or pro player to be a quality instructor, then I guess your own post belies what you really believe.
This wasn't meant to blow up into a pissing match...I just thought you should include some others, based on what you described as what you would look for now.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Jerry said, "You're one of 4 people in the world that I would recommend."
Mark said, "You're one of very few people I would recommend as a great instructor."
Joe said, "If you don't work with Scott Lee, you must be mad at your money!"
See Blackjack's latest quote on FB for his take.
Stan and I have been friends, colleagues and respected instructors for more than 20 years (I worked with Landon too). I'll be at his house, at his request, working with him next week.
It's not ego...it's a simple fact that those people, my industry peers, consider me, and randyg, to be part of an important community...which I consider an honor and a privilege. My students have won state, regional and national titles in several disciplines, over the past 3 decades. If you think you have to be a national champion or pro player to be a quality instructor, then I guess your own post belies what you really believe.
This wasn't meant to blow up into a pissing match...I just thought you should include some others, based on what you described as what you would look for now.Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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I agree with what randyg said
I want help with my fundamentals from an instructor that specializes in fundamentals.
I will strategy and moves from top players when I donate to them in cheap sets.
I want help with my fundamentals from an instructor that specializes in fundamentals.
I will strategy and moves from top players when I donate to them in cheap sets.
What i would like if time and money permitted would be a coach/trainer who could help in the day to day training who could check progress motivate give feedback help a player train watch them compete build them up technically and mentally. This is more common in mainstream sports. Martial arts etc. Pool coaching is going to bigger in the future i think we will see a huge improvement this year at the mosconi cup and coaching will be a big part of that thanks to Mark Wilson.
Lots of young talent is coached but they do not admit to it as they are brought along by older players who help here and there but it is not like an olympic coach. More is the pity more better coaching would yield stronger play.
Lots of young talent is coached but they do not admit to it as they are brought along by older players who help here and there but it is not like an olympic coach. More is the pity more better coaching would yield stronger play.
I have worked with Randy, Scott,Joe and Jerry. All great instructors. If Mark Wilson's new book in any indication of how he can teach, then he must be considered one of the great instructors today. A great book. Get it. Study it. I am going through it for the second time.
I think Scott and Randy are fantastic at improving the basics of the game. If you can spend any time with them I would highly recommend it. You will surely improve. I know they travel and will go were ever they are wanted.
Jerry is also amazing. I learned a lot from the two days I spent with him.
All these people mentioned are great teachers and really nice people who love what they do.
I think Scott and Randy are fantastic at improving the basics of the game. If you can spend any time with them I would highly recommend it. You will surely improve. I know they travel and will go were ever they are wanted.
Jerry is also amazing. I learned a lot from the two days I spent with him.
All these people mentioned are great teachers and really nice people who love what they do.
Well, let's see...
Jerry said, "You're one of 4 people in the world that I would recommend."
Mark said, "You're one of very few people I would recommend as a great instructor."
Joe said, "If you don't work with Scott Lee, you must be mad at your money!"
See Blackjack's latest quote on FB for his take.
Stan and I have been friends, colleagues and respected instructors for more than 20 years (I worked with Landon too). I'll be at his house, at his request, working with him next week.
It's not ego...it's a simple fact that those people, my industry peers, consider me, and randyg, to be part of an important community...which I consider an honor and a privilege. My students have won state, regional and national titles in several disciplines, over the past 3 decades. If you think you have to be a national champion or pro player to be a quality instructor, then I guess your own post belies what you really believe.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
That's not the way I took it and that's based on what I've seen here. None of the people I listed would have felt they needed to send that pm. If you hadn't done that I'd have left it alone. I don't believe Randy would have sent it. Yes, I consider what some people have done personally. It is a fact that not all pros can teach well and most people today know that. I learned more from the road player than from two of the three former world champions. From what I've heard of your methods, you do quite well with video and what not and that certainly is a modern method, so to speak. I may have over reacted. I probably should not have posted what I did but if you are so secure in yourself you shouldn't have made the comments you did. My personal choices are just that.
I don't ask that the instructor play pro speed, but they do have to play better than I do.
Even if they are past their prime.
My reasoning is... I am at best a B player.
There has to be a huge number of A players a a decent handful of pros out there.
Why should I gamble on someone who "maybe" can teach me something,
when I can go to an A player or pro who "almost definitely" can teach me something?
I only have limited money to spend on instruction, so I won't risk it
on a fellow B player when there are plenty of likely-better alternatives out there.
I also look for recommendations and reviews from fellow AZBers.
I honestly don't care that much about certifications. It's not that I think they're
useless or bad, I just don't actively look for it. It doesn't factor into my decision.
So far I've had lessons with Tony Marcino, and Ralph Eckert.
Both were quite useful, Tony clarified to me the different styles of break and how
to generate more power. He also spotted some habits that I needed to look at,
and did videotaping. He provided a break practice routine.
Eckert was more informal but helped me figure out flaws
in my fundamentals, and suggested I sharpen up my preshot routine.
He gave me some drills to work on too.
Even if they are past their prime.
My reasoning is... I am at best a B player.
There has to be a huge number of A players a a decent handful of pros out there.
Why should I gamble on someone who "maybe" can teach me something,
when I can go to an A player or pro who "almost definitely" can teach me something?
I only have limited money to spend on instruction, so I won't risk it
on a fellow B player when there are plenty of likely-better alternatives out there.
I also look for recommendations and reviews from fellow AZBers.
I honestly don't care that much about certifications. It's not that I think they're
useless or bad, I just don't actively look for it. It doesn't factor into my decision.
So far I've had lessons with Tony Marcino, and Ralph Eckert.
Both were quite useful, Tony clarified to me the different styles of break and how
to generate more power. He also spotted some habits that I needed to look at,
and did videotaping. He provided a break practice routine.
Eckert was more informal but helped me figure out flaws
in my fundamentals, and suggested I sharpen up my preshot routine.
He gave me some drills to work on too.
To me it comes down to if they really care about teaching and pool. I took lessons from a well known "Master" instructor and scribe for a billiards magazine. It would seem his main interest was in selling more lessons and then other equipment to help me improve.
I'm a geezer with arthritis in both wrists and the load bearing foot and due to a broken collar bone, my bridge shoulder is a inch and a half closer to the neck than the right. He knew this and yet all he could do was try to force me into a 20 year olds position of chin on cue. I don't bend that way, not in forty years anyway.
Scott Lee and Randy G were a revelation. Both worked with what was comfortable and practical for me. Their only interest was in my improvement. No sales pitch, no equipment, just how to be better, and to work around my limitations. Neither were frustrated because of what I could do but rather challenged by it.
I met Jerry at SBE last year and he used me as a teaching dummy. Just the assistance he gave me in 20 minutes I'm sure helped sell a bunch of DVD's. What a great guy.
There's a reason why some instructors here on AZ are so well known and have such a loyal following.
Some have a love for pool and teaching and some have a love for the hustle. Is this post an overt pump for Scott? Yeah, maybe. But in the long run he's made about $10 an hour with me. Ya got to love a guy like that.
I'm a geezer with arthritis in both wrists and the load bearing foot and due to a broken collar bone, my bridge shoulder is a inch and a half closer to the neck than the right. He knew this and yet all he could do was try to force me into a 20 year olds position of chin on cue. I don't bend that way, not in forty years anyway.
Scott Lee and Randy G were a revelation. Both worked with what was comfortable and practical for me. Their only interest was in my improvement. No sales pitch, no equipment, just how to be better, and to work around my limitations. Neither were frustrated because of what I could do but rather challenged by it.
I met Jerry at SBE last year and he used me as a teaching dummy. Just the assistance he gave me in 20 minutes I'm sure helped sell a bunch of DVD's. What a great guy.
There's a reason why some instructors here on AZ are so well known and have such a loyal following.
Some have a love for pool and teaching and some have a love for the hustle. Is this post an overt pump for Scott? Yeah, maybe. But in the long run he's made about $10 an hour with me. Ya got to love a guy like that.
This is a slippery slope but I am apt to try from time to time.
This is just my opinion and nothing more.
Yes, there are many people who can explain things that they cannot do. I agree with this.
But explaining it and teaching me how to do it are two different things.
I LOVE an articulate and knowledgeable instructor but I also would like to have someone who has at least walked the walk, a time or two and can give me direction as to how I can learn how to accomplish the particular technique, skill, or visualization.
Just explaining the technique may be good enough for some students but I want someone to help me to execute the technique or skill and not just explain how it works.
I actually believe that if someone has struggled to get to a high level of play, that they have a better chance to guiding me along the road of billiard success.
A good teacher is fantastic. A good teacher who also has been a good player is even better. A good teacher, who has played at a professional level is even better.
At the same time, I have known professional pool players who have given me lessons and during the lesson, I felt that I should have been the one giving the pool lesson.
I guess I'm saying that each student may have different needs and that those needs might be fulfilled by different billiard instructors with different skill sets, different knowledge and most importantly the basis of good communication skills.
JoeyA
If I can inject my 2 cent's worth. I live on the Big Island of Hawaii and we don't have any known instructors available. I own multiple books on pool the latest being Mark's great book.
What I did is bought a GoPro Hero 3 camera and set it up on a tripod. By taking video's from the front,side and back shooting straight in shots and then processing the video and slowing it way down I am able to very easily see the flaws in my stroke.
Through a process of analyzing and correcting and re-shooting the video's, I've made substantial progress in correcting flaws.
I do this for myself and my wife who is just learning the game.
Randy
What I did is bought a GoPro Hero 3 camera and set it up on a tripod. By taking video's from the front,side and back shooting straight in shots and then processing the video and slowing it way down I am able to very easily see the flaws in my stroke.
Through a process of analyzing and correcting and re-shooting the video's, I've made substantial progress in correcting flaws.
I do this for myself and my wife who is just learning the game.
Randy
I've done the same thing with my iPhone (takes amazingly good video BTW) and had good results in spotting flaws in my stroke.
However, don't expect any sympathy from us about not having instructors on the Big Island. In Chicago we've got lots of instructors...along with three feet of snow on the ground, more to come and 15-degree days at the end of February. Wanna trade?
Nothing I am saying is to take anything away from you, Pushout. I just want to say this about Scott. I think he is a very good instructor and he showed me some things I have used for many years now.
I play OK and I've played with Scott a few times. He was in stroke only once when we played (9 ball) and ran out from everywhere. For example, one rack I hooked him and he jumped a full ball with his playing cue and ran right out. My observation was he was playing about shortstop speed in-stroke.
People who think Scott can't play are dead wrong. He plays fine and in his playing days, he was quite competitive in tourney's etc.
I can definitely sympathize with him. I can go for months and months without hitting a ball, play twice a year and once a year in a one tournament and still play at 70%- 80% of my in-stroke speed. Some people need to practice more and Scott doesn't make money by practicing.
I get it. I just didn't put him on my list, if he hadn't pmed me, I probably would have let it go. I didn't dis him or Randy, I just didn't list them, I don't know as much about them as the people I listed. Unless, he thought I dis-respected him by not listing him? I dunno and frankly, I don't care. I don't think I've ever said in any post on AZ NOT to go to him for instruction.