Ferrule tolerances
- Thread starter cuejo
- Start date
I just got this shaft shipped for a new ferrule.
Seen tolerances like this on a high end cue before?
Capped, but not threaded, and no glue all the way to the top.....who gave the maker the title of 'high end cuemaker' ? There's not even a chamfer at the bottom of the ferrule.
But the collar looks familiar....
Dave
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Can you imagine the a joint on that cue? Lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Paragraph 4 of the rules for posting in the ask the cue maker section
The forum shall never be used by cuemakers or non-cuemakers to criticize other cuemakers, the quality of their work, or their methods.
Posting the repair is one thing. The picture of the joint is in poor taste and adds nothing to the post.
Larry
The forum shall never be used by cuemakers or non-cuemakers to criticize other cuemakers, the quality of their work, or their methods.
Posting the repair is one thing. The picture of the joint is in poor taste and adds nothing to the post.
Larry
Sorry I offended you Larry
I removed the picture of the joint,
I didn't mention the name of the maker
I just thought it interesting to the level of intricacy required to make such beautiful ring work and then have such a huge tolerance on the ferrule.
I didn't even criticize the work, just asking if it's typical on a high value cue.
Thank you. Several years back the ask the cue maker section became vile with people criticizing others work. Thats when the rules were put in place. I didn't want to see it headed down that road again. Always enjoy your post and look foreword to seeing the finished repair!
Larry
Spot on, Larry. It's also the reason many of the top level builders quit posting.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the builder did. I think some hacks should probably learn a little more about cue making before criticizing an accomplished builder's work. If you have no clue why the ferrule was installed the way it was, then what gives you the authority to criticize it, or more yet to question the quality of the rest of the cue? Hacks are always trying to bring others down in order to somehow make themselves more relevant. It's futile & it's wrong.
How many people laughed at & ridiculed Orville & Wilbur? Nobody remembers the critics.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the builder did. I think some hacks should probably learn a little more about cue making before criticizing an accomplished builder's work. If you have no clue why the ferrule was installed the way it was, then what gives you the authority to criticize it, or more yet to question the quality of the rest of the cue? Hacks are always trying to bring others down in order to somehow make themselves more relevant. It's futile & it's wrong.
How many people laughed at & ridiculed Orville & Wilbur? Nobody remembers the critics.
For a capped and press-fit ferrule, .040" I think is reasonable if he used epoxy. It HAD to have a gap. Or it would not bottom out.
A lot of 5/16 18 capped ferrules have more gaps than that at the top.
The depth of factory ferrules vary from .750 to .810 from what I've seen.
Is that ivory by the way ?
Also, you are going to change the hit if you make it a through ferrule.
You're gonna re-tenon it ???
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Who can prove the ferrule is the original work?
I understand that there had to be a gap,
I would expect to see it full of glue though.
I am not going to re tenon it, I'm going to shorten the cue by the length of the cap,
The change in hit from the ivorine to micarta will be pretty different I would think.
I didn't expect to be called a hack by posting a question on technique here for sure.
I a pretty sure I didnt slam the work done either.
As I see it, this ferrule was totally destroyed, whether from abuse or normal play I can't say.
But the capped area of the remaining ferrule was completely driven in to the empty area above the tenon.
I would expect to see it full of glue though.
I am not going to re tenon it, I'm going to shorten the cue by the length of the cap,
The change in hit from the ivorine to micarta will be pretty different I would think.
I didn't expect to be called a hack by posting a question on technique here for sure.
I a pretty sure I didnt slam the work done either.
As I see it, this ferrule was totally destroyed, whether from abuse or normal play I can't say.
But the capped area of the remaining ferrule was completely driven in to the empty area above the tenon.
I hope Eric was referring to someone else.
I agree, that gap should have some epoxy.
When I install 5/16 18 capped ferrule, I super glue a tape to cover the bleed hole .
Turn the shaft upside down and let the epoxy escape from the bottom of the ferrule. Not through the bleed hole.
It might be hackery, but oh well. :grin:
I read of an old trick where they soak paper with epoxy and throw it down there to fill the gap. But, I've never tried it.
Heard than on pins and A-joints too .
Btw, good thread Darc.
We should all learn from this section.
Without flaming others of course.
That's the old days.
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I have the utmost respect for you Eric, and have always agreed with most of what you have had to say, but I don't agree on this. I understand that we aren't supposed to bash other cue makers, and I don't think that I did, but in this quote, you are calling us hacks? You haven't even seen any of our work first hand but you turn to name calling because some of us are a bit critical of the method used on this ferrule? I'm a bit confused as to how its ok for you to do this, but we can't express our disagreement on a method.
I personally don't do my ferrules this way, and this result is a good reason why. IMO, if it was a great way to do it, we wouldn't be discussing it as it wouldn't have failed. This should be taken as a lesson on how to improve so it doesn't happen in our own work.
Dave
RBC
Deceased
I just got this shaft shipped for a new ferrule.
Seen tolerances like this on a high end cue before?
The cap looks a little thin to me, and the area should preferably be filled with epoxy.
On capped ferrules, I've always dripped epoxy down into the ferrule while it was upside down and my finger was is covering the relief hole. I think turn it over and screw it down on the shaft a little ways and the stop. I give the epoxy some time to run down to the bottom of the cavity, and they screw it down the rest of the way. The result is that when the air is gone, the cavity is full of epoxy and the excess comes out of the relief hole. I keep it right side up until the epoxy is set so it can't run out.
As for attempting to match the tenon length and the bore depth, that is typically a bad idea. The problem is that the tenon may bottom in the hole before the sidewall of the ferrule bottoms on the shoulder of the shaft. This makes for a certain tenon explosion at some time, as well as a pretty ugly glue line at the bottom of the ferrule. Of course it can be done correctly, but to do it consistently, you'd need to cut both parts on the same machine, and it would need to be very accurate. It would still be real touchy.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
RBC
Deceased
Darcy,
I think that I would not have posted the picture of the joint rings. Those rings do kind of narrow things down a bit.
Royce
Getting the air out from the end is the answer.
I have a small hole in the ferrule end. I have found that placing glue all over the tenon and end, glue around the front face and a small blob at the start of the ferrule hole. I do not place glue down the inside of the ferrule. Then slowly assemble. The excess glue comes out the end of the small hole into a little piece of tube. The tube is between the ferrule and tailstock. The small piece of tube collects excess glue, stays on the end so that if any glue is absorbed by end grain etc there is a small reservoir so to speak.
It can stay in the lathe overnight or be stood upright. just depends on work load.
As for the air gap effecting the play I am not sure. If the remaining wall section could flex then I can see it effecting it in some small way.
There are a lot of cues out there that an air gap at the bottom of the ferrule and seem to play well.
The one that confuses me is when the tenon is not concentric to the shaft. I always wonder how this comes about.I have seen them 0.4mm offset or another way, a 0.8mm throw.
I have a small hole in the ferrule end. I have found that placing glue all over the tenon and end, glue around the front face and a small blob at the start of the ferrule hole. I do not place glue down the inside of the ferrule. Then slowly assemble. The excess glue comes out the end of the small hole into a little piece of tube. The tube is between the ferrule and tailstock. The small piece of tube collects excess glue, stays on the end so that if any glue is absorbed by end grain etc there is a small reservoir so to speak.
It can stay in the lathe overnight or be stood upright. just depends on work load.
As for the air gap effecting the play I am not sure. If the remaining wall section could flex then I can see it effecting it in some small way.
There are a lot of cues out there that an air gap at the bottom of the ferrule and seem to play well.
The one that confuses me is when the tenon is not concentric to the shaft. I always wonder how this comes about.I have seen them 0.4mm offset or another way, a 0.8mm throw.
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I have seen that also and have a few thoughts, but don't want to say them incase I'm incorrect.
Dave
Me too
That's why I changed how and when I install my ferrules
I also fill my capped ferrules before I jam them in place
Wasn't referring to anyone in particular. I know what it feels like to be on the other end. Hack repairmen knock on me all the time for not being able to put the tenon in the center. They don't seem to realize or understand that I use 3/8-10 ferrules, and the deep v-groove threads are what give the illusion of being off center. Still doesn't stop them from bad mouthing me when they change a tip on one of my cues. Fact is they have no clue what my method is or why, so exactly what qualifies them judge or critique my work? And for the builder of the cue in this thread, what gives anybody the qualification to criticize his work or call into question the rest of the cue?