Did The JB vs Lou Match Settle The Great Aiming Debate Once & For All?

[Gerry Williams]

The sweep to centre cue ball brings me to the shot line.

Experience from learning fixed locations is the only answer for not needing to know where the pocket is. This sweep thing is what's baffling .Does the sweep or when the bridge hand hits the table create the final aiming line?

 

[8pack]

So your never on the shot line from the get go. The shot will always be thick or thin of the actual aiming line,just depends on the sweep.

 

[Gerry Williams]

Exactly. If the shot needs to be thinned the sweep is in the same direction as the cut.

BTW - I don't think about this anymore - it is natural.

So your never on the shot line from the get to. The shot will always be thick or thin of the actual aiming line,just depends on the sweep.

 

[swest]

In Pro 1, when your bridge hand hits the table, you are on the shot line.

Yes, experience from fixed locations is nice to know. That is because the system will take you to a pocket. However, it may not be the pocket you want. That is why experience is beneficial. Once on your shot line, experience will tell you "yes, that looks right for where I want it to go", or, "no, that set me up to bank it". If you see from experience that you are obviously not lined up correctly, then you simply stand up and sweep from the other direction or use a different visual perspective from what you initially chose. That is, B instead of A, for an example. But, even with no experience, the system when used properly will set you up to a pocket somewhere.

Well, theoretically, with enough power behind the shot, of course the object ball will eventually, with enough rails, pocket somewhere. Can you be more specific about this?

 

[swest]

.
.
Because of this, I, as well as others, can not accept it "just works". Our life experiences does not allow for this whereas yours may allow for this.
.
.

And why must this engender such rage from the proponents?

 

[BasementDweller]

In Pro 1, when your bridge hand hits the table, you are on the shot line.

Yes, experience from fixed locations is nice to know. That is because the system will take you to a pocket. However, it may not be the pocket you want. That is why experience is beneficial. Once on your shot line, experience will tell you "yes, that looks right for where I want it to go", or, "no, that set me up to bank it". If you see from experience that you are obviously not lined up correctly, then you simply stand up and sweep from the other direction or use a different visual perspective from what you initially chose. That is, B instead of A, for an example. But, even with no experience, the system when used properly will set you up to a pocket somewhere.

Ah -- this sounds an awful lot like every other system, including just feeling your way to the shot line.

If it doesn't feel or look right you start over.

 

[Gerry Williams]

Doesn't happen often once you learn the system. The best players in the world have to get up off of shots sometimes too.

To each their own.

Ah -- this sounds an awful lot like every other system, including just feeling your way to the shot line.

If it doesn't feel or look right you start over.

 

[swest]

So, like I mentioned yesterday, last night was league play.

I played pretty well, especially after I got into the PSR groove, and started staying down on my shots.

But I still missed a couple of shots that I should never miss. One, I know why I missed (stretching, instead of using the rest), but the other was a 3/4 table cut back into a blind pocket, which I overcut... again...

There are 2 or 3 classes of shots that I am tired of missing; or, rather, I am tired of not KNOWING that I'm on the right line. The blind pocket cut is one, for example, which I am focusing on in this post.

I am keen to fix this. And I am willing to take extraordinary measures at this point, since practicing the shot hundreds of times hasn't brought me any feeling of confidence.

So the DVD is on the way, and I'll work through it to see if it offers me something to fix this problem. I focus on this shot because it is, of all shots that I miss for whatever reasons, it is the one I miss because I am not aimed correctly. There are no complicating factors with this one, it is all about the aim.

I'll say up front that my expectation is that I will begin to work through the material, and will get to a certain point, and the rug will get pulled from under me, and I'll be left with, "Say Whaaaat??" But I am going to make a supreme effort to suspend skepticism until it overwhelms me.

Yeah, I know, you're going to come back and chide me (well, you won't 'chide', you'll be insulting, degrading, and rageful) about my attitude, but I'm sorry, it's the best I can do... we'll see how it goes.

- s.west

 

[Gerry Williams]

Blind cuts are tough shots as you know. I have improved in this area with the help of CTE/Pro One.

If you give it a good effort you will be pleased.

So, like I mentioned yesterday, last night was league play.

I played pretty well, especially after I got into the PSR groove, and started staying down on my shots.

But I still missed a couple of shots that I should never miss. One, I know why I missed (stretching, instead of using the rest), but the other was a 3/4 table cut back into a blind pocket, which I overcut... again...

There are 2 or 3 classes of shots that I am tired of missing; or, rather, I am tired of not KNOWING that I'm on the right line. The blind pocket cut is one, for example, which I am focusing on in this post.

I am keen to fix this. And I am willing to take extraordinary measures at this point, since practicing the shot hundreds of times hasn't brought me any feeling of confidence.

So the DVD is on the way, and I'll work through it to see if it offers me something to fix this problem. I focus on this shot because it is, of all shots that I miss for whatever reasons, it is the one I miss because I am not aimed correctly. There are no complicating factors with this one, it is all about the aim.

I'll say up front that my expectation is that I will begin to work through the material, and will get to a certain point, and the rug will get pulled from under me, and I'll be left with, "Say Whaaaat??" But I am going to make a supreme effort to suspend skepticism until it overwhelms me.

Yeah, I know, you're going to come back and chide me (well, you won't 'chide', you'll be insulting, degrading, and rageful) about my attitude, but I'm sorry, it's the best I can do... we'll see how it goes.

- s.west

 

[BeiberLvr]

As long as you give it an honest effort, people will be accommodating to your questions.

 

[Neil]

Well, theoretically, with enough power behind the shot, of course the object ball will eventually, with enough rails, pocket somewhere. Can you be more specific about this?

..............

 

[Neil]

Ah -- this sounds an awful lot like every other system, including just feeling your way to the shot line.

If it doesn't feel or look right you start over.

Yes and no. Yes, because until you get the visuals down really well, you might pick the wrong one to start with. No, because while with other systems you are still at least somewhat guessing, with this system, once you are sure you are relatively aligned to where you want it to go, you know that you are on the correct line, no more guessing.

 

[Neil]

So, like I mentioned yesterday, last night was league play.

I played pretty well, especially after I got into the PSR groove, and started staying down on my shots.

But I still missed a couple of shots that I should never miss. One, I know why I missed (stretching, instead of using the rest), but the other was a 3/4 table cut back into a blind pocket, which I overcut... again...

There are 2 or 3 classes of shots that I am tired of missing; or, rather, I am tired of not KNOWING that I'm on the right line. The blind pocket cut is one, for example, which I am focusing on in this post.

I am keen to fix this. And I am willing to take extraordinary measures at this point, since practicing the shot hundreds of times hasn't brought me any feeling of confidence.

So the DVD is on the way, and I'll work through it to see if it offers me something to fix this problem. I focus on this shot because it is, of all shots that I miss for whatever reasons, it is the one I miss because I am not aimed correctly. There are no complicating factors with this one, it is all about the aim.

I'll say up front that my expectation is that I will begin to work through the material, and will get to a certain point, and the rug will get pulled from under me, and I'll be left with, "Say Whaaaat??" But I am going to make a supreme effort to suspend skepticism until it overwhelms me.

Yeah, I know, you're going to come back and chide me (well, you won't 'chide', you'll be insulting, degrading, and rageful) about my attitude, but I'm sorry, it's the best I can do... we'll see how it goes.

- s.west

I edited another post to all dots because I hadn't read this post yet, and it does make a large difference in my response. As long as you are sincerely trying to learn it, we will help you. Remember, Stan also has many free videos on you tube that you obviously haven't seen yet. Watch those also. But, first off, empty your cup on what you think you know about aiming. This (CTE) is totally different and does not mesh at all with what you now know about aiming.

 

[BasementDweller]

Yes and no. Yes, because until you get the visuals down really well, you might pick the wrong one to start with. No, because while with other systems you are still at least somewhat guessing, with this system, once you are sure you are relatively aligned to where you want it to go, you know that you are on the correct line, no more guessing.

Fair enough.

I do see the difference, at least as far as how you describe it.

 

[BasementDweller]

So, like I mentioned yesterday, last night was league play.

I played pretty well, especially after I got into the PSR groove, and started staying down on my shots.

But I still missed a couple of shots that I should never miss. One, I know why I missed (stretching, instead of using the rest), but the other was a 3/4 table cut back into a blind pocket, which I overcut... again...

There are 2 or 3 classes of shots that I am tired of missing; or, rather, I am tired of not KNOWING that I'm on the right line. The blind pocket cut is one, for example, which I am focusing on in this post.

I am keen to fix this. And I am willing to take extraordinary measures at this point, since practicing the shot hundreds of times hasn't brought me any feeling of confidence.

So the DVD is on the way, and I'll work through it to see if it offers me something to fix this problem. I focus on this shot because it is, of all shots that I miss for whatever reasons, it is the one I miss because I am not aimed correctly. There are no complicating factors with this one, it is all about the aim.

I'll say up front that my expectation is that I will begin to work through the material, and will get to a certain point, and the rug will get pulled from under me, and I'll be left with, "Say Whaaaat??" But I am going to make a supreme effort to suspend skepticism until it overwhelms me.

Yeah, I know, you're going to come back and chide me (well, you won't 'chide', you'll be insulting, degrading, and rageful) about my attitude, but I'm sorry, it's the best I can do... we'll see how it goes.

- s.west

You sound like you have a healthy level of skepticism.

I'm starting to think mine may be unhealthy. :thumbup:

 

[JoeyInCali]

Did JB use an aiming system ?
Did Lou not use an aiming system ?
From what I saw, I think they both used the same system.
They visualized the two balls colliding.

 

[swest]

You sound like you have a healthy level of skepticism.

I'm starting to think mine may be unhealthy. :thumbup:

Yes, most definitely I am skeptical. But no more skeptical of this than of anything else I come across that, on its face, would seem too good to be true. And, in the case of CTE, I don't mean "too good to be true" in the sense that it's being touted as the magic bullet that will guarantee I make every shot; rather, that there can be a prescription for arriving at the shot line by using the kind of easy-to-see markers that have been described. So, yes, I am skeptical.

I edited another post to all dots because I hadn't read this post yet, and it does make a large difference in my response. As long as you are sincerely trying to learn it, we will help you. Remember, Stan also has many free videos on you tube that you obviously haven't seen yet. Watch those also. But, first off, empty your cup on what you think you know about aiming. This (CTE) is totally different and does not mesh at all with what you now know about aiming.

To the extent that I can, I will. What I can't let go of, however, is an expectation that I have (which has been promoted by many) that I am going to find in CTE a prescription for arriving on a shot line by following a logical, though perhaps difficult to document and describe, set of steps. I will be patient and generous, and slow to criticize, but that expectation has been set by the proponents, and is part of what forms the basis of the controversy. So it's hard to just chuck that expectation out the window. But, be assured, that I will approach it with an honesty of intellect.

Also, I'm going to set up my camera and try to document my progress and questions. That's a little ambitious, given my personal situation, but it's something I hope to follow through on.

As long as you give it an honest effort, people will be accommodating to your questions.

If you give it a good effort you will be pleased.

Well, there wouldn't be any point to do otherwise. There are already plenty of vocal naysayers, that have better argumentation skills than I, for me to just half-ass it and then complain.

 

[Straightpool_99]

.....................

 

[Neil]

Yes, most definitely I am skeptical. But no more skeptical of this than of anything else I come across that, on its face, would seem too good to be true. And, in the case of CTE, I don't mean "too good to be true" in the sense that it's being touted as the magic bullet that will guarantee I make every shot; rather, that there can be a prescription for arriving at the shot line by using the kind of easy-to-see markers that have been described. So, yes, I am skeptical.



To the extent that I can, I will. What I can't let go of, however, is an expectation that I have (which has been promoted by many) that I am going to find in CTE a prescription for arriving on a shot line by following a logical, though perhaps difficult to document and describe, set of steps. I will be patient and generous, and slow to criticize, but that expectation has been set by the proponents, and is part of what forms the basis of the controversy. So it's hard to just chuck that expectation out the window. But, be assured, that I will approach it with an honesty of intellect.

Also, I'm going to set up my camera and try to document my progress and questions. That's a little ambitious, given my personal situation, but it's something I hope to follow through on.



Well, there wouldn't be any point to do otherwise. There are already plenty of vocal naysayers, that have better argumentation skills than I, for me to just half-ass it and then complain.

Don't let go of your expectation of it working. Rest assured in the fact that when it doesn't work, it's not the system, it's you. The first requirement to getting it to work very consistently for you is to make sure that you can reliably hit the cb where you want to and down the line you want it to go.

 

[swest]

Don't let go of your expectation of it working. Rest assured in the fact that when it doesn't work, it's not the system, it's you.

But, see, that's just what the [take your pick of religious authorities] said when I told him I didn't believe in [take your pick of miraculous religious events]...

And, anyway, how can I "rest assured" of anything? That's the whole point of approaching this with an open mind. If I "rest assured that it's me", that doesn't sound like an open mind...

The first requirement to getting it to work very consistently for you is to make sure that you can reliably hit the cb where you want to and down the line you want it to go.

I intend to begin my video documentation by demonstrating my own level of mastery of the fundamentals...