I devulged TOI

[Neil]

I do recall saying that a ball struck with a " touch of inside" does have horizontal rotation on it, so I'm not denying any fundamental laws of physics. As Mikjary says, "You can call hitting a ball off center English if you'd like."

If a ball is hit with any type of horizontal rotation on it, if you want to call it english, call it english. What I'm saying is that C.J. Wiley has CHOSEN not to call horizontal rotation "spin or "english" when the rotation is as slow as the rotation on the basketball when it falls off your finger. He refers to horizontal rotation as spin - english only when the spin is so fast that it creates a blur when observed. I don't want to put words in his mouth. I've never heard him state it quite that way. That's just my perception of his reasoning.

If my perception is right, he's only trying to point out the distinction between extremely slow horizontal rotation and and horizontal rotation that looks like a blur because many posters believe that every time horizontal rotation is applied it should look like a blur. It shouldn't look like a blur if only a touch of it is applied.

So go ahead and call it english if you want. I'm just tired of all these posts that pop up whenever T.O.I. is discussed that start out with,"Hey, C.J - When are you going to start calling it English?" No one's right and no one's wrong in this debate. I've never heard him deny that horizontal rotation is applied on a T.O.I shot. He has chosen not to call horizontal rotation "spin" or "english" for the sake of clarity. Shots that apply horizontal rotation at extremely slow speeds are employed in much different ways and produce much different results than shots that apply extremely fast horizontal rotation. So he calls fast horizontal rotation "spin" or "english," and he calls extremely slow horizontal rotation,"side."Those of us who have learned from his writings and DVD's have followed that reasoning; and if truth be known, it took me a while to stop calling it "english."

I have nothing against those who don't see any benefit in T.O.I. as a ball pocketing method. What I don't understand is the posters who disrupt discussions of T.O.I. with this "Is it Enlglish or isn't it English," nonsense and who don't have the patience enough to try to understand the reasoning behind the semantics.

Oh, maybe it's just a little problem with the simple fact that words actually mean things. As far as understanding the reasoning behind those words, we do understand. It's many of the proponents of your own made up language that really don't understand. There is no doubt in my mind that if some APA 4 came up with all the exact same words as CJ has in his posts, you would laugh him off of here. Think about that for a little bit....

 

[CJ Wiley]

TOI it makes the "conventional method" seem like a kid's bike compared to a Harley

That's right...it's virtually impossible to hit the cue ball in such a way that it doesn't spin slightly.....even hitting "dead center". This is obvious, so there's no reason to get all excited about it....it's also true in any sport - tennis, golf, football, basketball, etc.

If you don't believe this simply try to hit it up table to the middle diamond and have it come straight back to your tip. I can do that fairly consistently, however I won't do it without putting a slight bit of "over," or "under" spin.

Since all shots have some spin it's better to favor one side of the cue ball (TOI) and play the zone it creates. I'm giving everyone a way to open up their perception of the game, and only if the 'Touch of Inside' is experienced for a few hours.

I've told many players how to achieve this and thousands are using and benefiting from the TOI style......even if they choose not to use it on most of their shots they will still learn shots they could not master any other way.

For me personally, if I had to play "the conventional way" {that my critics choose} I'd never play another game of pool.....and wouldn't even miss it. After using TOI it makes the "conventional method" seem like a children's bike compared to a Harley.

http://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-conte...1913-2014-harley-davidson-cvo-breakout-03.jpg

You can call hitting a cue ball off of center english if you'd like. The real fact of the matter is that almost every shot of an average player is not completely dead center, so there must be english applied to each shot. Probably every pro player hits closer to dead center, but not on every shot they consider to be a center ball hit.

The amount of side spin is not as critical unless jacked up from 9 feet away, when you hit the cue ball very close to center. The shot line may be slightly off, but the ball will probably pot.

When I hit a ball with TOI, my tip may not hit the right spot. This will change the deflection of the cue ball, but I should still be able to hit the target. What I really want to do to maintain control of the cue ball has more to do with the speed of my stroke. Unless you've played with a TOI long enough, you won't experience what I'm saying.

I not only aim to a specific point/side of the cue ball with TOI, I use the speed and angle of attack to control the revolutions the cue ball turns before it strikes the object ball. Too many turns and I get a different position and cut angle on the object ball. Too few and I get too much CIT(cut induced throw) from the stunning effect of the cue ball. That is the "touch" of TOI and it takes quite a while to understand this.

Because I can control the spin, I can contact the object ball and have a dead cue ball when it hits the rail, or I can create an angle out of nothing and send the cue ball moving around the table. With the correct stroke, the cue ball may barely spin 1 turn before it hits the object ball. I don't worry about definitions when I do this. I worry just about doing it.

Best,
Mike

 

[sfleinen]

Oh, maybe it's just a little problem with the simple fact that words actually mean things. As far as understanding the reasoning behind those words, we do understand. It's many of the proponents of your own made up language that really don't understand. There is no doubt in my mind that if some APA 4 came up with all the exact same words as CJ has in his posts, you would laugh him off of here. Think about that for a little bit....

Again, CJ does NOT like the "english" term used in descriptions of TOI, so he definitely needs to modify his acronym:

[T]ouch [O]f [I]nside [L]acking [E]nglish [T]erm

...or TOILET for short. This way, there's no constipation... er, I mean, confusion.

-Sean

 

[BeiberLvr]

If you don't believe this simply try to hit it up table to the middle diamond and have it come straight back to your tip. I can do that fairly consistently, however I won't do it without putting a slight bit of "over," or "under" spin.

What's over or under spin?

I assume it's your new way of saying top or bottom.

Please clarify.

 

[3andstop]

What's over or under spin?

I assume it's your new way of saying top or bottom.

Please clarify.

When you really get old, top or bottom is a "new" way to say follow or draw.

 

[BeiberLvr]

When you really get old, top or bottom is a "new" way to say follow or draw.

True, but it still makes more sense than over or under

 

[CJ Wiley]

At the end of the day that's what it'a about PLAYING BETTER

Overspin is called topspin in tennis and I believe it's simple enough to understand.

Underspin is called underspin in tennis and that's even easier to understand.

The cue ball rarely travels like a "knuckleball" (a baseball term, you can look it up), it always has some type of "spin".

TOI dramatically increases a player's consistency, it gives the user the ability to understand how the cue ball reacts so they can play better pool...at the end of the day that's what it'a about PLAYING BETTER......and I've proved time and time again under the most severe pressure that it certainly plays better. 'The TOI Game is my Teacher'

What's over or under spin?

I assume it's your new way of saying top or bottom.

Please clarify.

 

[CSykes24]

As to why T.O.I practitioners don't call it "english." They call it "side." .......

Take a basketball. Place it on the tip of your index finger and hold it there with your other hand. Now real fast, take that other hand off the top of the ball, slap it's side and put some horizontal rotation on the ball. If the horizontal rotation is fast enough, the ball will stay on the top of your finger. We'll call the horizontal rotation "spin" in this case. Aw heck; let's call it "English."

Now keep that ball on the tip of your finger. The horizontal rotation will obviously begin to slow as time passes. At some point, the speed of the rotation will slow to a degree where the finger loses it's ability to balance the ball and, hence; the ball falls off the finger.

The ball does not fall off the finger because the ball loses ALL horizontal rotation. The ball falls off while there is still some horizontal rotation. We won't call this extremely slow horizontal rotation "spin," or "English." We'll call it "side."

So let's talk pool. When applying horizontal rotation to the cue ball, where is the dividing line between "spin - English" and "side?" If after the cue ball is struck, it's ensuing horizontal rotation is of such a speed that a drastic difference in trajectory results after contact with the object ball as opposed to the trajectory after a center ball hit, then we'll call that "spin - english."

If after the cue ball is struck, it's ensuing horizontal rotation is of such a slow speed that it's trajectory after contact with the object ball is only subtly different from that of a center ball strike, we'll refer to that horizontal rotation as "side"

While a ball struck with a " touch of inside" trajects, after contact with the object ball, differently from a ball struck in the center, it does not, after making contact with the object ball, traject similiarly to a ball struck with "english."

A ball struck with a proper "touch of inside" appears to float to the side. This is why practitioners of T.O.I don't call it "center" and don't call it "english." They call it "side."

What did I just read...you can put it any way you want, physics doesn't allow for what you're trying to explain.

 

[CJ Wiley]

.TOI has nothing to do with "defying physics"

What did I just read...you can put it any way you want, physics doesn't allow for what you're trying to explain.

I got lost trying to follow that post as well.

Physics*** is what it is and won't be changed (by me). TOI is about creating better pocket zones, improving shot percentages and maximizing margin of error......TOI has nothing to do with "defying physics".....it's comical writing this clarification, if anything "goes without saying" it's this statement. They call Efren "The Magician," but he's not really doing "magic"......just wanted to clarify that one while I'm at it. 'The TOI Sense is the Teacher'

***
physics (ˈfɪzɪks)
n (functioning as singular)
1. (General Physics) the branch of science concerned with the properties of matter and energy and the relationships between them. It is based on mathematics and traditionally includes mechanics, optics, electricity and magnetism, acoustics, and heat. Modern physics, based on quantum theory, includes atomic, nuclear, particle, and solid-state studies. It can also embrace applied fields such as geophysics and meteorology
2. (General Physics) physical properties of behaviour: the physics of the electron.
3. (General Physics) natural science or natural philosophy
[C16: from Latin physica, translation of Greek ta phusika natural things, from phusis nature]

 

[PocketSpeed11]

What is "devulged?" I'm guessing there is a story behind this word because I have no idea what it means.

 

[CJ Wiley]

it's secret, private or previously unknown

What is "devulged?" I'm guessing there is a story behind this word because I have no idea what it means.

We can't proclaim that publically - it's secret, private and previously unknown.

 

[3andstop]

What is "devulged?" I'm guessing there is a story behind this word because I have no idea what it means.

Well, I could tell ya that I misspelled it and had no way to correct it, but there may be another meaning you are missing.

For 4 ... I mean 5 bucks, I'll let ya in on it, cause I think CJ's lawyers are doggin it.

 

[His Boy Elroy]

I got lost trying to follow that post as well.

Physics*** is what it is and won't be changed (by me). TOI is about creating better pocket zones, improving shot percentages and maximizing margin of error......TOI has nothing to do with "defying physics".....it's comical writing this clarification, if anything "goes without saying" it's this statement. They call Efren "The Magician," but he's not really doing "magic"......just wanted to clarify that one while I'm at it. 'The TOI Sense is the Teacher'

***
physics (ˈfɪzɪks)
n (functioning as singular)
1. (General Physics) the branch of science concerned with the properties of matter and energy and the relationships between them. It is based on mathematics and traditionally includes mechanics, optics, electricity and magnetism, acoustics, and heat. Modern physics, based on quantum theory, includes atomic, nuclear, particle, and solid-state studies. It can also embrace applied fields such as geophysics and meteorology
2. (General Physics) physical properties of behaviour: the physics of the electron.
3. (General Physics) natural science or natural philosophy
[C16: from Latin physica, translation of Greek ta phusika natural things, from phusis nature]

Alright; lemme try again,

This thread started with 3andstop mentioning how he learned about T.O.I. long ago when a fellow player told him about the effectiveness of applying a touch of English on shots. You retorted that if it was English he was applying, it was not T.O.I because English is not applied in T.O.I shots. You further stated that if this player applied English on most of his shots, he was making the game very difficult.

A T.O.I shot is hit slightly off center. In my experience (correct me if I'm wrong) it's impossible to hit the cue ball off center, even to the smallest of degrees, without applying horizontal rotation to the cue ball. When anybody refers to this horizontal rotation as "English," you object . You refer to hitting the ball slightly off center as hitting the cue ball with "side.".

Well; how do you hit the cue ball with side, and not produce horizontal rotation; and what is horizontal rotation if not "spin; and I think in most posters minds, "spin" is the same thing as "English."

So; in my opinion, there's a lack of clarity in the way you explain this issue of "ITS NOT ENGLISH! IT'S SIDE! Those statements right there are at the forefront of what perplexes some posters about T.O.I and stifles their inquisitiveness about it.

In my 2 posts I merely tried to explain my perception of what you mean. ( I probably should have left the basketball out) What I think you mean is that when applying English, the application is almost always deliberate, with the intention of obtaining whatever benefits the English can bring.

I believe when referring to side, as in touch of INSIDE, your saying the intention of shooting off center is mainly to produce deflection, and the spin is merely a by - product and so slow that it 's effects are negligible. Therefore; although on a touch of inside shot, spin is obviously produced, you simply CHOOSE, not to deny it's existence, but to give it another name (side) in order to differentiate it from deliberate, usually faster spin (English) that T.O.I practitioners should be dissuaded from applying to shots.

Anyhow; You're the T.O.I. boss and you explain it's concepts amazingly well. I'm stating my perception of what I think you mean. I wish you'd chime in and explain with clarity, exactly what the differences are between "English" and "side."

 

[Mikjary]

Alright; lemme try again,...

Anyhow; You're the T.O.I. boss and you explain it's concepts amazingly well. I'm stating my perception of what I think you mean. I wish you'd chime in and explain with clarity, exactly what the differences are between "English" and "side."

I think you answered your own question very well! :smile:

Best,
Mike

 

[3andstop]

And to think, I planted the seed for CJ to reap the harvest from. Now, where's my 4.. I mean 5 bucks?

 

[CJ Wiley]

This enables the practitioner of TOI to favor the inside of the pocket and "cut" it

Alright; lemme try again,


Anyhow; You're the T.O.I. boss and you explain it's concepts amazingly well. I'm stating my perception of what I think you mean. I wish you'd chime in and explain with clarity, exactly what the differences are between "English" and "side."

I've not used the term "side"... the reason I don't highlight "english" or "spin" with TOI is it takes the student's mind off what's pertinent -----> deflection.

What you are doing {when using TOI} is deflecting the cue ball slightly so it "cuts" the object ball slightly more (than where you're aiming). This enables the practitioner of TOI to favor the inside of the pocket and "cut" it slightly into the center.

If the cue ball doesn't deflect it hits the inside of the pocket, when it's hit well it targets the center and if it happens to deflect too much it will still contact the outside of the pocket.

This is called the '3 Part Pocket System' and it's a powerful system for pocketing balls. I am known as one of the best shot makers in the business and this is the system I utilize.

Those that put some time into this system will enjoy and benefit from the extra confidence it produces in shot-making .....you have to experience what it takes to appreciate TOI, there's no short cut to dedication and practice. The payoff is developing a game that will grow and mature every day, in every way. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[seven_7days]

And to think, I planted the seed for CJ to reap the harvest from. Now, where's my 4.. I mean 5 bucks?

Good day sir,

My name is Fookin Goode and part of his legal team and would like to extend our client's
generous offer of one dollar annually over the next five years.

Truly,



Screwem, Goode & Hart - Attorneys at Law

 

[CJ Wiley]

"If TOI is the ideal hit they must acquit"

I just got word that "If TOI is the ideal hit they must acquit"

Good day sir,

My name is Fookin Goode and part of his legal team and would like to extend our client's
generous offer of one dollar annually over the next five years.

Truly,



Screwem, Goode & Hart - Attorneys at Law

 

[sfleinen]

I've not used the term "side"... the reason I don't highlight "english" or "spin" with TOI is it takes the student's mind off what's pertinent -----> deflection.
[...]

Confusion of terms is a common obstacle in marketing. It's not too late to change the acronym "TOI" to make it clear that you don't want this confusion.

[T]ouch [O]f [I]nside [L]acking [E]nglish [T]erm

This way, you'll "flush" all opportunities for misunderstanding before they ever float to the top.

-Sean

 

[3andstop]

I've not used the term "side"... the reason I don't highlight "english" or "spin" with TOI is it takes the student's mind off what's pertinent -----> deflection.

My neighbor, who now is an accomplished attorney after returning from a cross country trip where he ran, on foot, from CT all the way to California chasing an ambulance that he thought was carrying an injured party, but in reality was just a vehicle delivery guy and his partner, says ..... the reason you left off the word english is to try to avoid a plagiarism suit against you.

He says, it ain't gonna work smarty pants. His counter offer to your high class attorney is $1.25 a year, for 4 .... I mean 5 years. So take some of that!

edit ... he also said it's the word "touch" that's gonna put the nail in the coffin, not the word english. :nanner: