BEWARE OF Zhou8747 NON-PAYER

A cue is not SOLD until the money is in the bank, its really that simple.

Leaving an negative itrader for someone who backs out of a deal honestly will weaken and water down the whole purpose of itrader in my opinion.

A broken deal, is not a broken promise, it's a broken agreement. It's not like the cue was sent then you recieved no money.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
A car dealer would never consider a car sold on someones word. Until the car is paid for, it is for sale. If you had put a deposit on the car, and then backed out of the deal, you would lose the deposit.

The difference here is that, the seller takes the "buyer" at their word, and word only. Then is at the mercy of the "buyer".

Would it be acceptable if:
I agreed to sell a cue for a set price, to buyer A.
Before buyer A has made payment, buyer B makes an offer for a higher price, and pays instantly.
I then tell buyer A that the cue is no longer available to him?

P.S. I am sorry for your loss.
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Marcus;

I respectfully disagree with you on the iTrader part.

It is an absolutely frustrating pain in the ass for people to say they will take a cue then don't. That we agree on. But maybe it's best to simply operate such that if someone says they'll take it, then they need to fund it within *your* specified time frame otherwise they lose their spot.

I think this can solve most of these types of problems while preserving your very impressive perfect iTrader. I believe that if you neg iTrader someone for breaking their promise to buy a cue, you will be getting one back in return.

best,
brian
 
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Kickin' Chicken said:
Marcus;

I respectfully disagree with you on the iTrader part.

It is an absolutely frustrating pain in the ass for people to say they will take a cue then don't. That we agree on. But maybe it's best to simply operate such that if someone says they'll take it, then they need to fund it within *your* specified time frame otherwise they lose their spot.

I think this can solve most of these types of problems while preserving your very impressive perfect iTrader. I believe that if you neg iTrader someone for breaking their promise to buy a cue, you will be getting on back in return.

best,
brian
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I have handled this for my future deals..... nothing is "sold" or "pending" until I have payment, or a partial deposit. That should eliminate my worry in these situations. I have had this happen way too many times, to allow it to continue. This is no BS, right before I stepped away for awhile, I had it happen on 4 consecutive deals. I do not have the time to deal with people that don't follow through.

I am also no longer going to worry about retaliatory Itrader. My rep speaks for itself, so if someone needs to stoop to the level to lie and leave negative Itrader, so be it. I already have a plan in place for that situation when it occurs. (I can guarantee, the first person to do it will not be happy with the outcome) Maybe I have become to cynical about people, but people have made me this way.
 
I am still waiting for the answer to your example....

A- Because it is equal and a great example of reversal of the same situation

B- No one that says no bad I trader is warranted for a guy backing out of a promise can even possibly say this isn't allowed. See what happens when a dealer / flipper / seller does this...

JV

FAST_N_LOOSE said:
A car dealer would never consider a car sold on someones word. Until the car is paid for, it is for sale. If you had put a deposit on the car, and then backed out of the deal, you would lose the deposit.

The difference here is that, the seller takes the "buyer" at their word, and word only. Then is at the mercy of the "buyer".

Would it be acceptable if:
I agreed to sell a cue for a set price, to buyer A.
Before buyer A has made payment, buyer B makes an offer for a higher price, and pays instantly.
I then tell buyer A that the cue is no longer available to him?

P.S. I am sorry for your loss.
Click to expand...
 
Marcus

Marcus. there are a lot of people on here that just don't get it.There have been several
post on this thread that Zhou has done the exact same thing. Maybe the bleeding hearts should buy poor old Zhou a trophy and send it to him.
 
hussler said:
Marcus. there are a lot of people on here that just don't get it.There have been several
post on this thread that Zhou has done the exact same thing. Maybe the bleeding hearts should buy poor old Zhou a trophy and send it to him.
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What's there to get, and what does a bleeding heart have to do with it.
It's a bad idea to give negative Itraders when there is no transaction, besides being kind of a chicken shit thing to do.
If you want to do it go ahead and help deteriorate the WFS more than it already is.
So a guy backed out of a deal or didn't follow through, big deal, move on, do you really need the money from a cue deal that bad?
 
cuesblues said:
What's there to get, and what does a bleeding heart have to do with it.
It's a bad idea to give negative Itraders when there is no transaction, besides being kind of a chicken shit thing to do.
If you want to do it go ahead and help deteriorate the WFS more than it already is.
So a guy backed out of a deal or didn't follow through, big deal, move on, do you really need the money from a cue deal that bad?
Click to expand...

So it should be ok, without any response when someone commits to a cue, and doesn't follow through?

So going by what you imply, I don't have a deal with a buyer until a cue is paid for? So if a different buyer steps up and pays for the cue, I can just tell the original buyer, tough luck?

Is it wrong of me and other sellers to expect people to honor their word? It's not about "needing" the money, it's about people doing what they say they will.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
So it should be ok, without any response when someone commits to a cue, and doesn't follow through?
This has definitely happened on AZ.


So going by what you imply, I don't have a deal with a buyer until a cue is paid for? So if a different buyer steps up and pays for the cue, I can just tell the original buyer, tough luck?

Is it wrong of me and other sellers to expect people to honor their word? It's not about "needing" the money, it's about people doing what they say they will.
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Yep, sell it to the first guy who sends the cash, which would be better than handing out bogus negative rep for a deal that never happened.
Do you really want to bully a guy into buying a cue he doesn't want or can't pay for?
Better idea would be to put a warning right in your signature, "BEWARE, if you back out of a deal with me, you will feel the wrath of a negative Itraders or worse" "Do not make any offers unless you fully intend to buy this cue regardless of my answers to your questions" "Offer at your own risk"

Not exactly a good marketing strategy, but you could always try to qualify the buyer first.
 
cuesblues said:
Yep, sell it to the first guy who sends the cash, which would be better than handing out bogus negative rep for a deal that never happened.
Do you really want to bully a guy into buying a cue he doesn't want or can't pay for?
Better idea would be to put a warning right in your signature, "BEWARE, if you back out of a deal with me, you will feel the wrath of a negative Itraders or worse" "Do not make any offers unless you fully intend to buy this cue regardless of my answers to your questions" "Offer at your own risk"

Not exactly a good marketing strategy, but you could always try to qualify the buyer first.
Click to expand...

The deal never happened because the buyer didn't do what he said he was going to. You don't feel, that people that take his word in the future should know that he has backed out on previous transactions?

I don't bully anyone into buying anything. As adults, they should make up their own mind and be fully prepared to follow through, before committing to purchase something.

Why should I have to put it in my listings that I expect people to stand behind what they say? Isn't it kinda sad that this forum/society has come to that?

Offers are not the same as someone saying, "I'll take it", or "consider it sold". I don't consider an offer solid, until the person that makes the offer tells me we have a deal. If I have a cue listed for 1k, and I get a PM with an offer of 900. I reply to that PM, and say it's yours for the 9 if you want it. To me, that is not a deal, until the guy that made the offer comes back and says, "cool, I'll take it". To me, at that point we have a deal, and if he backs out after that point, people that may deal with him in the future should know that he has backed out of a prior deal.

There are circumstances where things truly do come up, but most of the time it is BS stories about why they can't finish the deal.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
The deal never happened because the buyer didn't do what he said he was going to. You don't feel, that people that take his word in the future should know that he has backed out on previous transactions?

I don't bully anyone into buying anything. As adults, they should make up their own mind and be fully prepared to follow through, before committing to purchase something.

Why should I have to put it in my listings that I expect people to stand behind what they say? Isn't it kinda sad that this forum/society has come to that?

Offers are not the same as someone saying, "I'll take it", or "consider it sold". I don't consider an offer solid, until the person that makes the offer tells me we have a deal. If I have a cue listed for 1k, and I get a PM with an offer of 900. I reply to that PM, and say it's yours for the 9 if you want it. To me, that is not a deal, until the guy that made the offer comes back and says, "cool, I'll take it". To me, at that point we have a deal, and if he backs out after that point, people that may deal with him in the future should know that he has backed out of a prior deal.

There are circumstances where things truly do come up, but most of the time it is BS stories about why they can't finish the deal.
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Marcus

I agree with both you and Ted both on this one (if that's possible). Yes I do think it is way prevalent and yes I think it has come to this and yes I think AZ was a far better place when we all took our words as important and did our best to stand behind them.

But its not that way now, and all the wishing things were the way they were is fruitless.

As the forum has become more rule-reliant, and correspondingly, less self-reliant, guys are way more willing to act in ways that are without class,simply because its not against the rules. Its the way of the world. Doing what's "within your rights" has replaced "doing the right thing".

I think Ted's suggestion is along the lines of change the way you react, because you won't change the way others act. Which I agree with too. It doesn't make the behaviors of others right, it just makes your reaction less (for lack of a better word) upsetting.

Or something like that

Kevin
 
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kvinbrwr said:
I think Marcus is referring to the days when men stood behind what they said, and words spoken (or typed) were "money" and not BS.
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The way you phrased it; makes me think, that you think that it was the past way of doing things.

Times have changed, either evolve or die out...

your choice.
 
mmedford said:
The way you phrased it; makes me think, that you think that it was the past way of doing things.

Times have changed, either evolve or die out...

your choice.
Click to expand...

If evolving, is not standing behind your word, I'll die out.

There are things in life that should never change, and my word meaning something is one of them.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
If evolving, is not standing behind your word, I'll die out.

There are things in life that should never change, and my word meaning something is one of them.
Click to expand...

For sure. How we act is all we've got. If I tell you "I own it" then I own it, nothing will stop me from completing that deal (anything that could was discussed before I said I'll take it), nothing. Standing by my word is that important to me (and i'm sure for you).

But that is a standard I hold myself too. Expecting others to act that way just leads to upset and disappointment. Nowadays, for many,"I'll take it" means its time to discuss terms.

Kevin
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
There are things in life that should never change, and my word meaning something is one of them.
Click to expand...

You can have your word; but your word is backed by hundreds of positive feedback.

Be vigilant with the unknown...is probably a better way to phrase it.

Thanks,
Mark
 
time for the obligatory bad analogy; well, maybe not *so* bad...

if a football team's defense is getting burned every other play and they're in man to man coverage, then they need to be receptive to going zone coverage in order to stay in the game.

If I'm getting burned by a lot of people saying they'll take it and then don't, I'm putting everyone on notice (except maybe those I've done prev biz with and hold in high regard) for all future deals that if they say they'll take it, they will be receiving the following note via pm:

Thank you for your interest in my xyz cue.

Due to an unusually high percentage of deals not being funded after people saying they would take it, I can now only hold this cue for 2 hours from the time I send this message. If the cue has not been paid for by then, it will continue to be available for sale.

Thanks for your understanding on this matter.

My paypal is abcdef@zzzz.com

sincerely,
seller
*******************************

yep, that right there would be my new defense.

best,
brian kc
 
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Zhou

Negative feedback is there for a reason and Marcus you are dead on. When a Guy tells you I will take it and will send you a bank wire. That is a confirmed deal, as long as you let these people get by with a slap on hand they will continue to do the same thing. I have had a PM sent to me from a High regarded seller here on AZ that has talked with Zhou whthin the last couple of days. The reason he got from Zhou was he was hoping that I would forget about it. You people who thinks that is OK and does not warrant negative feedback live in a different world than I do.
 
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