I never hit center ball no matter the shot

[gmoney1]

Cj

I've said this one before, see if you can find yourself saying the same - "hitting center ball is like the bowler that tries to throw a bowling ball straight ever time - it works ok at first, however, to improve you must "move the ball" off the straight line to find the "the pocket". - this is done with spin in bowling and deflection and/or spin in pool.

I aim a little full on each shot and on last stroke hit a little outside to 'throw to center pocket'. Does that sound like a better way than going with center? I do envision the 3 part pocket when doing this. From what i seen in your video its a similar concept but using the outside instead of the toi. To clarify i aim my tip center cue ball on warm up strokes then on last stroke veer off slightly to outside. Seem reasonable?

 

[gmoney1]

I aim a little full on each shot and on last stroke hit a little outside to 'throw to center pocket'. Does that sound like a better way than going with center? I do envision the 3 part pocket when doing this. From what i seen in your video its a similar concept but using the outside instead of the toi. To clarify i aim my tip center cue ball on warm up strokes then on last stroke veer off slightly to outside. Seem reasonable?

Anyone have any thought on this method?

 

[Jaden]

While spin is useful on most shots...

Anyone have any thought on this method?

While side spin is useful on most shots and I rarely don't use some type of side spin, I think it's dangerous to use it with the purpose of "helping" shots.

I think this creates a focus on the wrong things. Maintaining high level pool and increasing consistency is about focusing on the right things.

Now the right things to focus on will not be the same for everyone, so it's possible that your method is a good one. It's just not one that I recommend, because I think that trying to use side spin to help balls into the pocket is not conducive to consistency in the long run.

Does side spin help the balls into the pocket??? Yes... In some circumstances it does; however, that depends on the side of the pocket that you hit as well.

If you hit the outside of the pocket, then outside spin helps the ball into the hole because of spin transfer, but the longer the shot and the harder the shot the more that wears off or doesn't have an affect.

I think it's more important to be aware of how spin affects the shot than to dwell on it or attempt to influence a shot with it because you still have to hit the point you're aiming at for it to make a difference.

I would suggest learning how to adjust for english to hit the point you're aiming at and use spin for position rather than trying to use it to influence the pocketing of balls.

Jaden

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

in other words

In my experience the little helping english I use doesn't change the tangent line. It might change the angle the CB takes off the rail, but unless I'm using so much side that I actually have to change my contact point on the OB to allow for the throw the tangent line is not affected by the side I use. It would be affected by using high or low, but not side.

I hit center of cue ball to either roll the cue ball slightly past where the OB was at point of contact, cue ball speed has allot to do with this shot.
Or when I want a perfect 90 degree deflection I use center of cue ball.

I cannot help but to think about every book I have read about pool and when it comes to learning CB angle of deflection, all the books start off with hitting the CB in the center.

 

[CJ Wiley]

.to compensate for this I recommend using the TOI starting point for the CB reference

I aim a little full on each shot and on last stroke hit a little outside to 'throw to center pocket'. Does that sound like a better way than going with center? I do envision the 3 part pocket when doing this. From what i seen in your video its a similar concept but using the outside instead of the toi. To clarify i aim my tip center cue ball on warm up strokes then on last stroke veer off slightly to outside. Seem reasonable?

Yes, this is a popular way of utilizing the '3 Part Pocket System' - the difference in how I apply spin when using "outside english" is to use the TOI as my "center"......then moving the tip to center for slight "english," or on the other side of center to create more spin.

Remember, even when using spin to create the '3 Part Pocket Zone' the cue ball will deflect slightly.....to compensate for this I recommend using the TOI starting point for your cue ball reference, instead of trying to locate exact "center" ball.

I was recently told that Luther Lassiter and Danny James had a similar way of using TOI by rotating their shaft slightly to the inside.....this is the "Touch of Inside" (not english) that creates the ability to play the pocket as a "ZONE"......and get a true "feel/touch" for the pocket. 'The Pocket Zone is the Teacher'

 

[ceebee]

I liked the Wagon Wheel book... adding more knowledge can't hurt.

I'm a center ball man, but I know how to use the spin when needed. Too bad I'm so old...

 

[gmoney1]

Yes, this is a popular way of utilizing the '3 Part Pocket System' - the difference in how I apply spin when using "outside english" is to use the TOI as my "center"......then moving the tip to center for slight "english," or on the other side of center to create more spin.

Remember, even when using spin to create the '3 Part Pocket Zone' the cue ball will deflect slightly.....to compensate for this I recommend using the TOI starting point for your cue ball reference, instead of trying to locate exact "center" ball.

I was recently told that Luther Lassiter and Danny James had a similar way of using TOI by rotating their shaft slightly to the inside.....this is the "Touch of Inside" (not english) that creates the ability to play the pocket as a "ZONE"......and get a true "feel/touch" for the pocket. 'The Pocket Zone is the Teacher'

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Work on it in stages, first one diamond apart, then two, three, four. and five.

I ought to try that little test and play long straight in shots with the cueball stopping dead.

What distance should separate the OB from the CB?

 

[driven]

thx for the video Jaden. Very well done.
I really like your practice table,
normal size pockets must look like buckets to you.

long centerball stop shots. Immediate feedback.
The cue ball has to stop dead. not stop and spin a little, or draw back, or follow, or whatever.
any reaction besides stop dead the player has missed the center.
{assuming a straight stroke]

I play this shot for what I call stroke maintenance, but it might better be called search for the perfect stroke.

I could shoot a hundred of these shots and maybe get an actual stop shot six or eight times.
My record from about 1980 something is 67 without a miss, but only about 4 or 5 perfect stop shots

I have to get lucky to hit it perfect.
I play it with object ball in the center of the table and cueball about 7 ot 8 inches from the corner pocket, with my bridge hand on the rail. Very tough shot.
I was told the contact point between the tip and cue ball is only 1/8 inch.
If a person is off just half of that the ball must spin.
thx again
steven

 

[naji]

Anyone have any thought on this method?

The main thing is to know one thing, when you hit the cue off center if only 1/8th tip cb will squirt if shaft is parallel to center line of cb.If povited and your bridge is 14" or longer usually squirt Is 97% canceled. So alwyse play straight shots with either top left or right to know what is your cue behaviour so no stun and confuse stun, throw and squirt, shoot fast to cancel swerve. Good luck

 

[Old Nine Baller]

I aim a little full on each shot and on last stroke hit a little outside to 'throw to center pocket'. Does that sound like a better way than going with center? I do envision the 3 part pocket when doing this. From what i seen in your video its a similar concept but using the outside instead of the toi. To clarify i aim my tip center cue ball on warm up strokes then on last stroke veer off slightly to outside. Seem reasonable?

Anyone have any thought on this method?

Yes, I have a thought on this method. Why would your practice aims be at a different location than your final stroke?

You should be aiming at the place you intend to strike last. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell something.

ONB

 

[gmoney1]

Yes, I have a thought on this method. Why would your practice aims be at a different location than your final stroke?

You should be aiming at the place you intend to strike last. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell something.

ONB

One thought. It is hard to stroke straight. I KNOW i can intentionally go to one side though. It is kind of like drawing or fading a golf ball to me. Most pro golfers try to curve the ball because a straight shot is hard. I think CJ has said something to this effect. I think of veering off to the outside slightly

 

[CJ Wiley]

Not only is creating "the straight line" hard, it's virtually impossible

One thought. It is hard to stroke straight. I KNOW i can intentionally go to one side though. It is kind of like drawing or fading a golf ball to me. Most pro golfers try to curve the ball because a straight shot is hard. I think CJ has said something to this effect. I think of veering off to the outside slightly

Not only is creating "the straight line" hard, it's virtually impossible playing baseball, football, soccer, golf, tennis, or any other game we grew up playing as a child.

This is important because it reflects how our minds work, and it's not in "straight lines," there's a curve, arch, or deflection present in throwing, kicking, or striking a round ball....pool's the only game that you "can" hit the ball straight, but why would you? Think about it, trying to hit the cue ball straight every time is going against our mental "program," and besides, it puts a LOT of mental stress on a player that's trying to play that way......they may think it's how the pro's play, but they're mistaken. 'The TOI Game is the Teacher'

 

[Ty-Tanic]

I tend to not use spin unless it is needed. Why make it more difficult on yourself if you don't need to right. I tend to use draw more than anything else when I don't hit the CB in the center. I very rarely use English unless it is a absolute must. Your chances of missing a shot go up dramatically when you use English especially if you do not use a LD shaft. That's not to say that there are not people out there who can't make every shot using English but I think those people are a rare breed.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

Yes, I have a thought on this method. Why would your practice aims be at a different location than your final stroke?

You should be aiming at the place you intend to strike last. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell something.

ONB

One thought. It is hard to stroke straight. I KNOW i can intentionally go to one side though. It is kind of like drawing or fading a golf ball to me. Most pro golfers try to curve the ball because a straight shot is hard. I think CJ has said something to this effect. I think of veering off to the outside slightly

It is hard for you to "stroke straight"? Yet you can "intentionally go to one side though"? I couldn't go to one side on the last stroke at all. It takes too much talent.

If you're happy playing the speed you now play just keep listening to people trying to sell you things.

ONB

 

[CJ Wiley]

Keep doing what you're doing Ty-tanic and your "ship"(cue ball) will sail safely.

I tend to not use spin unless it is needed. Why make it more difficult on yourself if you don't need to right. I tend to use draw more than anything else when I don't hit the CB in the center. I very rarely use English unless it is a absolute must. Your chances of missing a shot go up dramatically when you use English especially if you do not use a LD shaft. That's not to say that there are not people out there who can't make every shot using English but I think those people are a rare breed.

You are right, intentionally bringing variables (english) into the "shot equation," is not prudent. Any time we spin the cue ball it will react according to the cloth, humidity, cue ball, tip size, and even the type of joint of your cue. Unless the cue ball's close to the object ball it's best to avoid unnecessary english if you want to consistently win.

Deflection is another story and it happens many times by accident, without the player even "real eyesing" it. Hitting the exact center with a perfectly straight stroke, free of any interference is not good to rely on. I will make this type shot if the balls are "straight in" to the pocket, but that's one of the few exceptions.

I use deflection on virtually ever shot whether I"m using TOI or TOO......either way the cue ball deflects slightly and allows me to play one side of the pocket zone so I can increase my margin of error........and my confidence.

Keep doing what you're doing Ty-tanic and your "ship"(cue ball) will sail safely.

 

[Black-Balled]

You are right, intentionally bringing variables (english) into the "shot equation," is not prudent. Any time we spin the cue ball it will react according to the cloth, humidity, cue ball, tip size, and even the type of joint of you cue. Unless the cue ball's close to the object ball it's best to avoid unnecessary english if you want to consistently win.

Deflection is another story and it happens many times by accident, without the player even "real eyesing" it. Hitting the exact center with a perfectly straight stroke, free of any interference is not good to rely on. I will make this type shot if the balls are "straight in" to the pocket, but that's one of the few exceptions.

I use deflection on virtually ever shot whether I"m using TOI or TOO......either way the cue ball deflects slightly and allows me to play one side of the pocket zone so I can increase my margin of error........and my confidence.

Keep doing what you're doing Ty-tanic and your "ship"(cue ball) will sail safely.

The only shots I use center ball on are straight ins, as well...playing 1p though can be a different story, when the cb destination in often more important than where the ob is going.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Efren's used to playing on less than perfect conditions in the Philippines

The only shots I use center ball on are straight ins, as well...playing 1p though can be a different story, when the cb destination in often more important than where the ob is going.

Even playing one pocket it's best to "stun" the ball with TOI than slow roll the balls. This takes some practice, but it's well worth it, then you won't be at the mercy of a crooked table, or foreign elements on the table.

Efren does this on many shots that go unnoticed. He's used to playing on less than perfect conditions in the Philippines, so he's rarely going to truly "slow roll" a ball unless he has to, or the conditions are pristine. 'Efren's Game is a Teacher'