So is there footage of the famous 1990's Challenge of Champions dumping scandal?

It looked to me like Lebron was the one dumping. Maybe he was the only one that bet on Buddy. That shot on the eight that he missed was awful, It was weak, no stroke and no position on the nine.

Buddy missed the combination on the nine exactly the way it needed to be missed. Hitting the nine to the long rail might make the nine but hitting the short rail not only insures not making it but also would leave better position on the eight. On my worse day if I didn't make that combination I would at lease hit the points of the pocket. Maybe they were both dumping?
 
I tried to watch the video with completely neutral eyes-giving buddy the benefit of the doubt. What is so striking is how out of place LeBron was. He made numerous bad plays costing him a few run outs. Normally, long shot or not, if you have gotten that far you are in stroke, unless the other players helped get you there. It would've been very convincing had the goof been able to runout, so the last rack (and buddy was trying to make sure it didn't get that far), it was absolutely obvious buddy didn't want to make that eight nine combination. And he didn't sell it well at all.

Very unfortunate incident in billiards history.
 
dabarbr said:
It looked to me like Lebron was the one dumping. Maybe he was the only one that bet on Buddy. That shot on the eight that he missed was awful, It was weak, no stroke and no position on the nine.

Buddy missed the combination on the nine exactly the way it needed to be missed. Hitting the nine to the long rail might make the nine but hitting the short rail not only insures not making it but also would leave better position on the eight. On my worse day if I didn't make that combination I would at lease hit the points of the pocket. Maybe they were both dumping?
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I thought the same thing about that eight nine shot. But I really think LeBron wasn't challenged the whole tournament so he wasn't dialed in. It looked like he was nervous and out of place. And after we know the story, it all makes sense.
 
I use to go to these at Mohegan Sun, and they were fun to watch. They have a $25,000 womans match too.

I was eating after the days match once and heard 2 women players talking about how the split after the finals would be $15,000 to $10,000, so it wasn't really winners take all. They weren't throwing, but they had a back door deal so no one would take second but go home in the red.
 
KweaSr said:
I use to go to these at Mohegan Sun, and they were fun to watch. They have a $25,000 womans match too.

I was eating after the days match once and heard 2 women players talking about how the split after the finals would be $15,000 to $10,000, so it wasn't really winners take all. They weren't throwing, but they had a back door deal so no one would take second but go home in the red.
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The 1991 Challenge Of Champions was "Winner Take All". One man would get paid and seven wouldn't.

Your post has nothing to do with this thread.

ONB
 
I'd like to see anyone play for $50,000 and see how they do

Cardigan Kid said:
I thought the same thing about that eight nine shot. But I really think LeBron wasn't challenged the whole tournament so he wasn't dialed in. It looked like he was nervous and out of place. And after we know the story, it all makes sense.
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I'd like to see anyone play for $50,000 and see how they do....it's easiest on the side-lines, and so is life. Even the bull fighters get nervous and make mistakes and they aren't betting a quarter......but they are betting their life sometimes.

Like the famous sweater said "I've never missed a ball from my chair"....and such is life.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I'd like to see anyone play for $50,000 and see how they do....it's easiest on the side-lines, and so is life. Even the bull fighters get nervous and make mistakes and they aren't betting a quarter......but they are betting their life sometimes.

Like the famous sweater said "I've never missed a ball from my chair"....and such is life.
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Earl didn't miss for $100K. :grin:
How many did you miss against Vivian ?
Efren didn't dog it for $165K in Tokyo or $500K on IPT.

Buddy didn't miss much for $10K against Efren.
And he's supposed to dog it like that against Lebron?
I would have sold him a saver if he wanted it. :grin-square:

Was Earl lying when he said he opted out of the dump ?
 
CJ Wiley said:
I'd like to see anyone play for $50,000 and see how they do....it's easiest on the side-lines, and so is life. Even the bull fighters get nervous and make mistakes and they aren't betting a quarter......but they are betting their life sometimes.

Like the famous sweater said "I've never missed a ball from my chair"....and such is life.
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Funny thing is the more you continue to try and white wash this the longer this thread will continue, funny how that works. I believe Jay.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Earl didn't miss for $100K. :grin:
How many did you miss against Vivian ?
Efren didn't dog it for $165K in Tokyo or $500K on IPT.

Buddy didn't miss much for $10K against Efren.
And he's supposed to dog it like that against Lebron?
I would have sold him a saver if he wanted it. :grin-square:

Was Earl lying when he said he opted out of the dump ?
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Sounds like the only person who isn't lying wasn't even there. Somebody should make a documentary about it.

Or maybe I meant it the other way around.

The fallout is the teacher.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Ah, the double dump! That's pretty funny, man. If Buddy had been let in on that plan and then was double crossed it would be a double double dump.:lmao: It would certainly have been funny if it happened in another sport. :mad:Sadly, pool is the only sport were this kind of thing is not only possible, but expected.:(
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Lol it seemed to me that the last Superbowl was also a dump :grin-square:
 
smoooothstroke said:
... in the semis. The dude that Lebraun beat did not appear to be a pro caliber player and also seamed tight and nervous.They did say he won a pro-tourney in 79.I wonder what tourney that was and also how many players had to lay down to get him to the semis.
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You're talking about David Howard? He won the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship in 1982 and 1986 and finished second in 1979 and 1983. He could play a little.
 
FreeShot said:
The women's event was "winner take all," but if the finalists agree to split beforehand then it isn't exactly "winner take all."
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Then it's winner take all and distribute as she wishes. The check and money goes to the winner...she then has to pay out the saver.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
I tried to watch the video with completely neutral eyes-giving buddy the benefit of the doubt. What is so striking is how out of place LeBron was. He made numerous bad plays costing him a few run outs. Normally, long shot or not, if you have gotten that far you are in stroke, unless the other players helped get you there. It would've been very convincing had the goof been able to runout, so the last rack (and buddy was trying to make sure it didn't get that far), it was absolutely obvious buddy didn't want to make that eight nine combination. And he didn't sell it well at all.

Very unfortunate incident in billiards history.
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There is a term in psychology called anchoring. Once you are introduced to a concept then it sets an anchor by which you judge subsequent information. No one can look at the video with a neutral stance once they have been told that there was a dump happening.

Not saying it didn't happen, only that we can't look at it without seeing each miss as evidence once we have it anchored that we are looking at a situation where a dump could have occurred.

Dumping and dogging look very much the same.
 
Ah, but the subsequent reactions right after the dump or dog look very different.
Especially when the actors are so bad.

I believe Jay.
 
itsfroze said:
Ah, but the subsequent reactions right after the dump or dog look very different.
Especially when the actors are so bad.

I believe Jay.
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:-) Mike looked genuinely happy.

I do think it's unfortunate if it happened. Whoever made such a ridiculous line leading to the temptation is partially to blame here.

It was called the Challenge Of Champions so the presumption should have been that all the "Champions" had a fairly even shot at the title.
 
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