Frozen Rail, and Slightly Off Rail Cut Shots
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So what is it that you want me or others to know from the video? Does the video support or contradict something I said, and if so, what, and at what time in the video? Not sure what your point in posting the video in response to my post is.
Cool, Dave just posted that.
What I found particularly interesting is that some cleaners coat the balls and reduce throw, whereas some cleaners strip the balls and increase throw.
What angle of cut are we talking about? As the angle approaches 90deg, the shot becomes far lower%.
I know that's obvious, but as far as, 'having trouble with' shots go, one has to be realistic about what make %s should be.
I know that's obvious, but as far as, 'having trouble with' shots go, one has to be realistic about what make %s should be.
FYI, lots resources (instructional articles, illustrations, and online videos) dealing with rail cut shots can be found on the rail cut shot resource page.
Check it out,
Dave
You guys are fast. I just posted that. FYI, there is a new thread for the video. It is here:
new throw and cling/skid/kick experiment video thread
Please post any comments or questions you have about the video there.
Catch you later,
Dave
If your object ball is frozen on the rail, put another object ball next to it/touching, this is your contact point. As one needs to add speed/spin to the shot, the contact point on the object ball changes, it move ever so slightly away from the rail. I'm not going to explain as to why, as your still learing collision concepts, but utilize this thinking and your ability to pocket balls on the rail will increase.
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Not true. Inside English is used to control the directional path of the CB after contact with the rail.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
For shots that the OB is frozen to the rail and the angle between the CB and OB is a diamond or less (meaning steep angles from diamond to diamond) I like to use inside english. Recently showing another player how to make that shot, I made it 10 for 10 without scratching and on a tight table. For shots that are still frozen and have a wider angle such as two diamonds apart or more, I like to use outside and as I have heard it said "pinch" the ball in. It all of course matters on what you need your position for your next shot to be. Many times in this situation, these shots are low percentage so if it is available, a safety is usually the smarter choice or bank depending on your abilities and the lay out of the table.
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Right. But one comment and one question:
1. The only time you might really need inside English is if you have a very thin or "impossible" cut shot.
2. I've always heard that if you hit rail first, the English won't affect how the cue ball comes off the rail because it hits the ball after the rail. But if you hit the ball first and then the rail, the English will have an effect. Do you think that's right?
... only if the CB mostly hits the ball first (or during the early part of cushion contact). If the CB hits the cushion first, the english doesn't have much effect on CB motion. For more info and demonstrations, see:
NV B.72 - Rail-first and ball-first shots with english, from VEPS II
Also, hitting the rail first with inside or running english can be helpful when the angle into the cushion is very steep. The first shot in the following video is an extreme example of this (although, it works even better with less steep shots):
NV B.92 - "Impossible" cut shots, from VEPS V
Regards,
Dave
A lot of different theories here. Good discussion. I like it. As an instructor, would you at least agree with this.....Only use side english when necessary. I think that why Tor said to use top. On longer distance shots, top (or rolling) english makes for a more accurate shot. It removes all the other factors that come into play when side english is used. If rail first is used, object ball contact has to be made while the cushion is being compressed. Hence both cushion and object ball are being struck simultaneously. Is that a more accurate statement?
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I think throwing English into the mix for people struggling with frozen rail shots can confuse matters. I tried showing a friend how to use running side to help matters but he wasn't hitting the right spot when using English so ended up missing more often.
My advice is to forget the cushion is there, whether frozen or slightly off when practicing. Aim to hit the OB like you would on any other shot. Cue through as if it was a hanger and watch it roll in. Once you start making them you quickly understand and remember where to aim and frozen rail shots become one of the more simpler shots in the game.
My advice is to forget the cushion is there, whether frozen or slightly off when practicing. Aim to hit the OB like you would on any other shot. Cue through as if it was a hanger and watch it roll in. Once you start making them you quickly understand and remember where to aim and frozen rail shots become one of the more simpler shots in the game.
I agree with the bulk of what you said here. Truthfully almost all frozen rail shots should be hit rail first. According to slow motion video there is no such thing as ball/rail simultaneous contact. It's either ball first or rail first. Rail first has a better chance to pocket the ball, as the CB comes off the cushion and "rubs" the OB, causing it to roll down the cushion into the pocket.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Dave...I know all this stuff you posted. I was specifically referring to the OP saying that English was REQUIRED to pocket a frozen ball...which it is not. My comment was directed at why you use sidespin most of the time...to control the CB path, rather than pocket the OB. In the case of a very thin cut, sidespin makes the shot easier...as you know.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott,
Thanks for clarifying. I knew you knew this stuff, but others might not have.
Catch you later,
Dave