12.25mm if you don't care about the value of the cue><:smile:
What's so great about 13mm shafts?
- Thread starter PhilosopherKing
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12.25mm if you don't care about the value of the cue><:smile:
Easy there little fella...
I could care less what any person does with their cue. The OP posed a question to the forum. I gave MY opinion. OBVIOUSLY, you are not a cue collector. IF you were, you would understand my post.
My Searing has shafts at 12.90mm and I play with it as my player. It will never be sold, so the shaft size is moot. However, if I played with 11.90mm shafts I hacked off at least $1,000 of the value of the cue. Get it?
I understood the larger shaft/ tip size creates more surface area for contact when you apply English, like a draw shot, where there's more tip to grab the cue ball. The smaller shaft size would have more miscues when extreme English is applied if the stroke is not pure.
The problem with players today is that way too many think that English is needed on every shot and they apply way too much and overwork the table with their position play analysis.
The fact is center ball is underappreciated and thus under used as well. And when you do apply English, less is needed because you learn with center ball to create cut induced throw of the object ball. I will admit that CJ's TOI epitomizes how effective this can be with producing consistent, reliable results.
13mm shafts will give you more tip surface area contact....albeit infinitesimal in actual application but nonetheless still very real and meaningful. So when you use a half tip or a full tip English with a 13mm cue tip, and have also become proficient and skilled with center ball play, this is a whole lot of English more than adequate for pocket billiards. For 3 cushion, the tip size of 12.25 - 12.5 is ideal because of the extreme spin required.
Matt B.
The fact is center ball is underappreciated and thus under used as well. And when you do apply English, less is needed because you learn with center ball to create cut induced throw of the object ball. I will admit that CJ's TOI epitomizes how effective this can be with producing consistent, reliable results.
13mm shafts will give you more tip surface area contact....albeit infinitesimal in actual application but nonetheless still very real and meaningful. So when you use a half tip or a full tip English with a 13mm cue tip, and have also become proficient and skilled with center ball play, this is a whole lot of English more than adequate for pocket billiards. For 3 cushion, the tip size of 12.25 - 12.5 is ideal because of the extreme spin required.
Matt B.
I don't believe this is true....the contact point of tip comes down to the radius on your tip, not the diameter of your shaft. Assuming the same tip radius the only thing a larger diameter shaft does is let you go a touch further out with your english before you get to a miscue situation. Until you get to the extreme edges of tip contact the part that contacts the ball is the exact same whether you have an 11mm shaft or a 14mm shaft, assuming the tips are shaped the same.
Very well said. this is exactly what I've been focusing on over the last half a year. Trying to unlearn bad habits of over use of English. The TOI dvd helped me to grasp this well.
Finding true center is where it all begins. I've also noticed that Tor does that right out of the box on his 14 days pool boot camp training.
cluelesscuer
New member
To me...in the most simplistic terms...the bigger the shaft, the more accurate in making the shot and the smaller the shaft, the easier to control the cue ball. This a very rough generalization. For awhile i was playing with different size (12.75 for 9 ft, 12.30 for 7 ft) shafts for different size tables. Then I thought that was silly and just went with a 12.5 for all.
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this is a personal choice, so whatever you like is best for you.
Most pros I know use between 11.25 and 12.5 .... the one I'm using now was 12.25 and I've sanded it (with 1000 sandpaper) down to just below 12mm.
I want the cue-ball to defect enough to influence the object ball a half pocket over 9'....that's how I gauge what's ideal.
13mm is probably better for beginners because they are just trying to get their fundamentals proper. As your game gets more sophisticated it's an advantage to use a smaller shaft.......this is a personal choice, so whatever you like is best for you.
Most pros I know use between 11.25 and 12.5 .... the one I'm using now was 12.25 and I've sanded it (with 1000 sandpaper) down to just below 12mm.
I want the cue-ball to defect enough to influence the object ball a half pocket over 9'....that's how I gauge what's ideal.
13mm is probably better for beginners because they are just trying to get their fundamentals proper. As your game gets more sophisticated it's an advantage to use a smaller shaft.......this is a personal choice, so whatever you like is best for you.
JC
Coos Cues
With 1000 grit paper it would probably take between one and two weeks of sanding to reduce a shaft .25 mm.
JC
CJ, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Depends upon the draw weight of the archer's bow 
And your own personal preference is what matters, whether it's 9mm or 14mm. Those of you that prefer smaller shafts are well-covered, those of us needing bigger shafts not so much.
And your own personal preference is what matters, whether it's 9mm or 14mm. Those of you that prefer smaller shafts are well-covered, those of us needing bigger shafts not so much.
CJ, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Depends upon the draw weight of the archer's bow
And your own personal preference is what matters, whether it's 9mm or 14mm. Those of you that prefer smaller shafts are well-covered, those of us needing bigger shafts not so much.
The problem with your comment is, in order to have a preference you have to have a frame of reference.
What someone thinks they prefer may in fact not be what is best for them, they just don't know it. I have the luxury of being able to build myself what ever I want as do a number of other posters. Of course this can also be a curse, you can drive yourself nuts experimenting.
For the rest, they just struggle looking for the magic and it can be expensive and frustrating to keep experimenting. It has been a long time since I could not just walk in my shop and make what ever I want. I would hate to have to again be one of those ordering cue after cue and shaft after shaft all kinds of dimensions.
I am sure after reading the comments of CJ people are now wondering if they should be playing with a 12 mm and are again confused about what they want and like. It is a difficult subject for sure without any real answers.
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I like the sanding process for the spin/deflection ratio
Yes, at least, if not more.....before it's over this shaft will probably be around 11.75 which is ok as long as it decreases gradually.
I like the sanding process for the spin/deflection ratio ......AND through this process I tend to bond/connect to the particular shaft so that it enhances my overall feel and touch.
Yes, at least, if not more.....before it's over this shaft will probably be around 11.75 which is ok as long as it decreases gradually.
I like the sanding process for the spin/deflection ratio ......AND through this process I tend to bond/connect to the particular shaft so that it enhances my overall feel and touch.
A larger diameter shaft gives less swerve when the cue is elevated, something which happens frequently during the game due to placement of the balls.
Preferences of the players have changed over the years for a number of reasons, but it's still possible to play excellent Pool with a thick shaft, taper matters too among a lot other things.
Petros
Preferences of the players have changed over the years for a number of reasons, but it's still possible to play excellent Pool with a thick shaft, taper matters too among a lot other things.
Petros
Do you have a formula for your taper? For many years I have been using a formula of
.001 of an inch per inch. In other words a 12.5 mm shaft at the tip will be around 12.75 mm at 10 inches from the tip and then goes up from there. Unless someone asks otherwise that is how I make shafts.
Mosconi played with like a 12.5 mm and 19.5 ounce cue if I remember right. I wonder why he was no more influential back then?
Most of the other players played with fatter shafts and heavier cues. I knew a lot of guys in the 60's who played with 21 and even 22 ounce cues and 13.5 shafts. I think Danny Gartner played with a 14mm. You would be hard pressed to find anyone today playing with a cue like those.
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Probably the game (straight pool) and 5x10 tables led to those choices, with a few exceptions.
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My first cue had a 12mm shaft. It was stolen in a B&E.
I found a couple of rather new cues, Cue Tec and Scorpion at a Pawn Shop. 13mm.
I got used to them. These days, my diameter of choice is between 12mm and 12.40.
A 13mm feels like I have a telephone pole in my hand. I have a couple of 12.75s that need to be taken down a tad.
I can live with a 12.75, .25mm being not a huge difference but barely.
I found a couple of rather new cues, Cue Tec and Scorpion at a Pawn Shop. 13mm.
I got used to them. These days, my diameter of choice is between 12mm and 12.40.
A 13mm feels like I have a telephone pole in my hand. I have a couple of 12.75s that need to be taken down a tad.
I can live with a 12.75, .25mm being not a huge difference but barely.
Add to that thick wool cloth, different balls and often air condition that was not really sufficient, nothing like we have today. Those guys never dreamed of playing on something like Simonis or shooting a break shot and having the balls scatter with such ease. They were almost playing a different game back then.
I was thinking in the 70's and 80's, the average diameter shaft was 13.25. I know a few were using 14mm, including myself, on the bar boxes back then.