2014 World 9-Ball Championship

Another thing to prove my variance point is that the world 9-ball title didn't become alternating break until 2006. Since then there has been 6 different champions with no repeat champions. Why? Because it equalizes the game along with the short races and almost any of these caliber players can win with all of the luck involved. Daryl Peach? lmao.

Before 2006, 3 guys won 7 of the 17 titles held when it was winner break.

Make it winner break with a longer race and Shane wins 3 of these in 10 years guaranteed.
 
corvette1340 said:
Another thing to prove my variance point is that the world 9-ball title didn't become alternating break until 2006. Since then there has been 6 different champions with no repeat champions. Why? Because it equalizes the game along with the short races and almost any of these caliber players can win with all of the luck involved. Daryl Peach? lmao.

Before 2006, 3 guys won 7 of the 17 titles held when it was winner break.

Make it winner break with a longer race and Shane wins 3 of these in 10 years guaranteed.
Click to expand...

Also rack your own patterns ,, LMFAO ,, There is plenty of guys who can play 9 ball with Shane who could also win 3 ,,



1
 
Nostroke said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY-r-woPXsE

there another one somewhere where Efren and his opponent miss like this back to back
Click to expand...

I don't know where the video might be posted but it is a match with Efren and Tony Crosby and used to be online somewhere. They both had the same ball come back out of the same pocket on consecutive shots, but it was on a table made by a not very well known table manufacturer who was sponsoring events at the time (and who obviously didn't have their pocket design down yet...lol). Real skinny and flimsy looking table from what I recall.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
So now it's the Olympics??? Haha, you guys are really reaching now. But I'll play along.
Are you the best in the world if you win the Olympic gold in tennis but lose the French, Australian, us opens and Wimbledon?
Likewise, if you sweep all the majors in tennis but lose the Olympic gold that year, are you not a world champion?

Thanks for proving my point.
Click to expand...

You and I are not disagreeing, we are talking about two different things.

Shane has World Champion ability.

I am simply saying if a player has not won a World Championship Title they can
not be called a World Champion.

You are saying that because Shane is as good as people who have won World
Championships he is a World Champion.
 
Mark Griffin said:
I don't remember the year - but I believe it was around 2007-2008 - that 10-Ball became a recognized game by the WPA. (The first World event was held in 2008 and won by Darren Appleton - according to WPA archives.)

Until then there could not have been any kind of World recognition. Just like One Pocket is now. It is not a recognized game by the WPA.

IF you are referring to the 'event' held in Jacksonville, I don't think that could qualify as any kind of World Championship. It was in a pool room with a very small field. It was another of Charlie's marketing moves.

BTW - the recognition of 10-Ball by WPA changed the landscape quite a bit. Yen Makabenta promoted a couple of events in Philippines - with very mixed payout results. Matchroom quit doing the World 9-Ball partly because of the confusion of a 10-ball event.

Also the world economy tanked - so it is difficult to really know what was the major factor - but the new discipline of 10-ball was a major part of the changes.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...


So by this logic, are we to understand that Willie Mosconi was never a world champion? According to the WPA Website, there have only been 4 straight pool world champions since the beginning of time and none of their names is Mosconi.

Or can we agree that there can and have been more than 1 sanctioning body for the sport of pool over the course of history, and often more than one simultaneously. Just like boxing, there are many organizations that can lay a claim to the world championship; some may be more or less prestigious than others - which is often the subject for debate- and opinions can and do fluctuate over time.

But I think it's a bit silly to say that only WPA world champions are legitimate world champions! You would be excluding an extremely large number of players who never won a WPA world championship but did happen to win a/the generally accepted world championship of that era.
 
I don't understand the talk of longer races. Pool tournaments of this caliber generally have large fields and races to 9,11,13 etc. That's their definition. Are 128 players really supposed to play races to 21 or 50? No because it's impractical and would be something different altogether. Pool players are waaay too caught up on luck and making excuses. I didn't see a single match today where the guy who played better did not win. If it was race to 3 or 5 maybe I would agree, but 11 is plenty long enough. Every game or sport has luck. Balls bounce funny in football, golf etc. I've never heard Peyton Manning or Tiger Woods complain about not getting rolls. You either capitalized on opportunities or you didnt.
 
corvette1340 said:
Another thing to prove my variance point is that the world 9-ball title didn't become alternating break until 2006. Since then there has been 6 different champions with no repeat champions. Why? Because it equalizes the game along with the short races and almost any of these caliber players can win with all of the luck involved. Daryl Peach? lmao.

Before 2006, 3 guys won 7 of the 17 titles held when it was winner break.

Make it winner break with a longer race and Shane wins 3 of these in 10 years guaranteed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and if they arm wrestled before each rack for the break, Strong Arm John would be World Champion. Why on earth would we change our sport, which has never had anything to do with long races, for the sake of a single player who is the only one that trains for long races?

If Shane is the best, let him prove it by beating champion after champion in a WPA quality field with a referee racking the balls. The greats before him have all been up to the challenge. If he wans to counted among them, he'll have to match their feats in world championship events.

As for your "variance stats," the biggest difference from eight years ago is that there are at least twice as many great players today than then. Winning twice is a very tall order now and only the superstars can dare to dream of such a feat. As properly noted prior to this event by a few AZB posters, there are dozens of guys good enough to win this event. Nobody would have ever made such a claim in 2006, when the number of guys capable of winning would have been reckoned as ten or twelve.

Who cares about player endurance? Champions are the ones able to produce sustained excellence against all comers one at a time and in any order. Shane has been able to wear down some very good fields, but WPA Championships offer the toughest fields that he ever faces, and he'll have to step it up a notch.

FYI, 11 is not a short race. It is a long race. FYI, Shane had no trouble winning the Derby City 9-ball event back when it was a race to seven format. He doesn't need a format change at WPA events. He just needs to play better. Maybe this is his week.

Have a little faith rather than rallying the Shane apologists as if his elimination is a sure thing.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
I don't understand the talk of longer races. Pool tournaments of this caliber generally have large fields and races to 9,11,13 etc. That's their definition. Are 128 players really supposed to play races to 21 or 50? No because it's impractical and would be something different altogether. Pool players are waaay too caught up on luck and making excuses. I didn't see a single match today where the guy who played better did not win. If it was race to 3 or 5 maybe I would agree, but 11 is plenty long enough. Every game or sport has luck. Balls bounce funny in football, golf etc. I've never heard Peyton Manning or Tiger Woods complain about not getting rolls. You either capitalized on opportunities or you didnt.
Click to expand...

Does Peyton play one quarter games? Does Tiger play 18 hole tournaments? Think before you post McFly.
 
sjm said:
Yeah, and if they arm wrestled before each rack for the break, Strong Arm John would be World Champion. Why on earth would we change our sport, which has never had anything to do with long races, for the sake of a single player who is the only one that trains for long races?

If Shane is the best, let him prove it by beating champion after champion in a WPA quality field with a referee racking the balls. The greats before him have all been up to the challenge. If he wans to counted among them, he'll have to match their feats in world championship events.

As for your "variance stats," the biggest difference from eight years ago is that there are at least twice as many great players today than then. Winning twice is a very tall order now and only the superstars can dare to dream of such a feat. As properly noted prior to this event by a few AZB posters, there are dozens of guys good enough to win this event. Nobody would have ever made such a claim in 2006, when the number of guys capable of winning would have been reckoned as ten or twelve.

Who cares about player endurance? Champions are the ones able to produce sustained excellence against all comers one at a time and in any order. Shane has been able to wear down some very good fields, but WPA Championships offer the toughest fields that he ever faces, and he'll have to step it up a notch.

FYI, 11 is not a short race. It is a long race. FYI, Shane had no trouble winning the Derby City 9-ball event back when it was a race to seven format. He doesn't need a format change at WPA events. He just needs to play better. Maybe this is his week.

Have a little faith rather than rallying the Shane apologists as if his elimination is a sure thing.
Click to expand...

short races are just part of it. Alternate break is another reason for high variance. As I showed, 3 guys won 7 of the 17 world titles when it was winner break. You can argue for short race, alternate break format all you want and that's fine, I'm not saying it isn't the best to sweat. It does equalize the playing field.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't determine the best player.
 
People act like rolls always even out in long races. They don't. You can play a race to 50 or more, and still have one player who will get the majority of the rolls.
 
corvette1340 said:
Does Peyton play one quarter games? Does Tiger play 18 hole tournaments? Think before you post McFly.
Click to expand...

To use your logic, in order for anyone to be considered on Paytons level, they would have to win in a game that had at least 8 quarters, twice as long as the usual game length.

Or to be Tigers equal, they must have to win in a match of 144 holes, rather than 72. Even tho they usually play 72.

They can't be the equal of the greatest without playing for at least twice as long as virtually everyone else usually does?

Shane is awesome, and among the handful of best players on the planet. He will eventually be a World Champion. He simply isn't, yet.
 
corvette1340 said:
What I'm saying is that it doesn't determine the best player.
Click to expand...

... and I disagree. To me, the truest measure of greatness is in one's ability to knock off champion after champion when all the stars of international pool are present. The big breakers still have a huge advantage in alternate break, but alternate break means everybody gets to play, and that's as it should be in a world championship.

OK if we agree to disagree concerning alternate break. I can see both sides.

Long races, on the other hand, have never been part of pro pool and I hope, never will be.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
I don't understand the talk of longer races. Pool tournaments of this caliber generally have large fields and races to 9,11,13 etc. That's their definition. Are 128 players really supposed to play races to 21 or 50? No because it's impractical and would be something different altogether. Pool players are waaay too caught up on luck and making excuses. I didn't see a single match today where the guy who played better did not win. If it was race to 3 or 5 maybe I would agree, but 11 is plenty long enough. Every game or sport has luck. Balls bounce funny in football, golf etc. I've never heard Peyton Manning or Tiger Woods complain about not getting rolls. You either capitalized on opportunities or you didnt.
Click to expand...

Best post in whole thread ! :thumbup:
 
i usually look at WPA lists in wikipedia to find out if someone is a world champion; like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WPA_World_Nine-ball_champions

about the UPA, where shane won the 10-ball title in 2007, here's what i have read:

"The nominal first international International Ten-ball Championship (previously, for six years, the event has existed but been known as the Florida Open Ten-ball Championship) was held in 2007. The sanctioning organization is the United States Professional Poolplayers Association (UPA), using WPA/BCA rules. The World Pool-Billiard Association itself separately started its own inaugural WPA World Ten-Ball Championship (WTBC) in 2008, in Manila, Philippines. The events are essentially competitors, but many players compete in both. The UPA event is known for sponsorship purposes as the Predator International."
 
sjm said:
Yeah, and if they arm wrestled before each rack for the break, Strong Arm John would be World Champion. Why on earth would we change our sport, which has never had anything to do with long races, for the sake of a single player who is the only one that trains for long races?

If Shane is the best, let him prove it by beating champion after champion in a WPA quality field with a referee racking the balls. The greats before him have all been up to the challenge. If he wans to counted among them, he'll have to match their feats in world championship events.

As for your "variance stats," the biggest difference from eight years ago is that there are at least twice as many great players today than then. Winning twice is a very tall order now and only the superstars can dare to dream of such a feat. As properly noted prior to this event by a few AZB posters, there are dozens of guys good enough to win this event. Nobody would have ever made such a claim in 2006, when the number of guys capable of winning would have been reckoned as ten or twelve.

Who cares about player endurance? Champions are the ones able to produce sustained excellence against all comers one at a time and in any order. Shane has been able to wear down some very good fields, but WPA Championships offer the toughest fields that he ever faces, and he'll have to step it up a notch.

FYI, 11 is not a short race. It is a long race. FYI, Shane had no trouble winning the Derby City 9-ball event back when it was a race to seven format. He doesn't need a format change at WPA events. He just needs to play better. Maybe this is his week.

Have a little faith rather than rallying the Shane apologists as if his elimination is a sure thing.
Click to expand...

This post is excellent also !
 
http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/11302-rise-of-the-upstarts-world-9-ball-final-sixty-four/

Yes this is turning out to be tourney dominated by the young guns, lesser knowns, underdogs. They are hunting the well known names just like Majed is hunting and wants to meet Appleton. They are fearless, confident, have nothing to lose and hungry for famous scalps. :thumbup:

http://www.qbsf.qa/en/downloads/2014/2014_W9BC_Final_round_format.pdf
1st session (8 matches) last 32 have started 11pm local time (4am EST)
Right now
Majed is running down his idol Appleton 6-2
Johan Chua is on rampage and leading Stepanov 5-1

I will be surprised if remaining famous names like Appleton, Feijen, Shane, Gabica make it to last 8 ( quarterfinals). It looks like another slaughter today except it is not lesser knowns but the well knowns that will be slaughtered :D
 
Poolplaya9 said:
I don't know where the video might be posted but it is a match with Efren and Tony Crosby and used to be online somewhere. They both had the same ball come back out of the same pocket on consecutive shots, but it was on a table made by a not very well known table manufacturer who was sponsoring events at the time (and who obviously didn't have their pocket design down yet...lol). Real skinny and flimsy looking table from what I recall.
Click to expand...

Efren v Kaplan, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu43kJPZr6E
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top