What defines a "confident stroke"?

[Jimmy_Betmore]

Watch some videos of Mike Sigel in his prime. That guy KNEW he was going to execute every shot he took. Just watch him. He'd shake his head and all kinds of other body language moves until he was comfortable and KNEW he was going to execute.

He knew the shot and how to shoot it. And to take a tip from some earlier posts, he shot through the cue ball. His stroke was the farthest thing from a poke and pray and, in my opinion, he had the most confident stroke I've ever seen.


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[(((Satori)))]

Watch some videos of Mike Sigel in his prime. That guy KNEW he was going to execute every shot he took. Just watch him. He'd shake his head and all kinds of other body language moves until he was comfortable and KNEW he was going to execute.

He knew the shot and how to shoot it. And to take a tip from some earlier posts, he shot through the cue ball. His stroke was the farthest thing from a poke and pray and, in my opinion, he had the most confident stroke I've ever seen.


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A confident stroke to me is when you get that it's on feeling before the shot. That is when you put in a confident stroke.

 

[FranCrimi]

Confident stroke = strong follow-through.

Lack of confidence = follow through cut short or steering to the left or right.

 

[itsfroze]

So, a "confident stroke" is an accelerating stroke. That doesn't necessarily mean a FAST STROKE; it just means that the stroke is accelerating. Someone wrote a good definition of what an accelerating stroke was; maybe Mike page, I'm not really sure.

But since no one has disagreed that a "confident stroke" is an accelerating stroke. (I agree with that too.)

DECELERATION: So WHY is a decelerating stroke a BAD thing?
What does a decelerating stroke do that makes it such a bad thing?
If your stroke slows down as the tip approaches the cue ball, what on earth physically is it that makes it so bad when it hits the cue ball, except for the cue ball being hit by the tip with less speed?
.
And I agree also with one of the posters, a "confident stroke" is partly a mental thing which is something that some of us occasionally have to actually think about when we're not using a "confident stroke".

My 26 year old Scotch Doubles partner this weekend mentioned to me that I play much better than I was showing on a couple of easy shots and told me that I needed to provide a confident stroke and he was correct. I think playing for over 12 hours straight had me, what the old-time players used to call "rum-dumb" and had me shooting easy shots like I was "hoping" the balls to fall in the hole. This didn't happen all of the time but deceleration was most likely a part of it. I still played well on occasion but I missed a couple of unbelievably easy shots during that 12 hour period. I've been Juicing(as in vegetable & fruit juice), meditating, exercising, practicing, learning, competing and even with all of those things, I falter on occasion. We lost our first match and played almost non stop for over 12 hours against 36 other teams and maybe it just took its toll on me.

Anyway, thanks for all of the great posts on this subject. I will check back to hear what you and others may have to say on the subjects.

Thanks,


JoeyA

The late Dave Bollman ( professional player, house pro and cue maker formally from Q-Master Billiards, VA.) once said to me a decelerating stroke will promote miss cues.

 

[Zphix]

A newer guy on the scene who has a confident stroke is Justin Hall - I absolutely love watching him knock balls around on YouTube!

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[CJ Wiley]

Shane stays in that condition {it appears}, and he plays more than anyone

That's true about Mike, when he finally "pulled the trigger" it was generally with confidence.....although it may take him a few minutes to get that point.

I played Mike several times and I also liked the stroke of Jimmy Rempe, Steve Mizerak, Buddy Hall, Dallas West, Ray Martin, and even guys like Jerry Brock, and Vernon Elliot were deadly with their delivery.

To be the greatest tournament player you couldn't ever shoot a shot without knowing it was going in.....that's what I would have had to work on more, I shot at more difficult shots than the "pure tournament players".....that's the difference between a "money player" and a "tournament player"....a money players will play much more offensive because once they hit "dead stroke" all those tough shots will go in and be intimidating.

The trouble with the "races to 11" is there's not enough time to get warmed up to that level unless you're already "in stroke". Shane stays in that condition {it appears}, and he plays more than anyone I've ever seen or even heard about....I'm really impressed that he hasn't burned himself out yet.....or found a "special" gurl to "side track" him. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Watch some videos of Mike Sigel in his prime. That guy KNEW he was going to execute every shot he took. Just watch him. He'd shake his head and all kinds of other body language moves until he was comfortable and KNEW he was going to execute.

He knew the shot and how to shoot it. And to take a tip from some earlier posts, he shot through the cue ball. His stroke was the farthest thing from a poke and pray and, in my opinion, he had the most confident stroke I've ever seen.


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[SpiderWeb]

Just come to memphis and you can see it in person. It is an unusual stroke but its one of the best ever after you watch him for a while. James Christoper still has it and he may be 100 yrs old.

 

[grindz]

A confident stroke is when you stop thinking about what you are doing and just let it happen.

Bill S.

No words, just a picture and NO DOUBT!!!!!

 

[pt109]

DECELERATION: So WHY is a decelerating stroke a BAD thing?
What does a decelerating stroke do that makes it such a bad thing?
If your stroke slows down as the tip approaches the cue ball, what on earth physically is it that makes it so bad when it hits the cue ball, except for the cue ball being hit by the tip with less speed?

JoeyA

Picture being in a car that is perfectly aligned...on a straight and level road.
If you keep your foot gently on the gas peddle...you can take your hands off the steering wheel.
As soon as you take your foot off the gas, the car will wander.

Good poolplayers and golfers accelerate through the ball for accuracy
more so than power.
IMO

 

[The Renfro]

So, a "confident stroke" is an accelerating stroke. That doesn't necessarily mean a FAST STROKE; it just means that the stroke is accelerating. Someone wrote a good definition of what an accelerating stroke was; maybe Mike page, I'm not really sure.

But since no one has disagreed that a "confident stroke" is an accelerating stroke. (I agree with that too.)

DECELERATION: So WHY is a decelerating stroke a BAD thing?
What does a decelerating stroke do that makes it such a bad thing?
If your stroke slows down as the tip approaches the cue ball, what on earth physically is it that makes it so bad when it hits the cue ball, except for the cue ball being hit by the tip with less speed?


And I agree also with one of the posters, a "confident stroke" is partly a mental thing which is something that some of us occasionally have to actually think about when we're not using a "confident stroke".

My 26 year old Scotch Doubles partner this weekend mentioned to me that I play much better than I was showing on a couple of easy shots and told me that I needed to provide a confident stroke and he was correct. I think playing for over 12 hours straight had me, what the old-time players used to call "rum-dumb" and had me shooting easy shots like I was "hoping" the balls to fall in the hole. This didn't happen all of the time but deceleration was most likely a part of it. I still played well on occasion but I missed a couple of unbelievably easy shots during that 12 hour period. I've been Juicing(as in vegetable & fruit juice), meditating, exercising, practicing, learning, competing and even with all of those things, I falter on occasion. We lost our first match and played almost non stop for over 12 hours against 36 other teams and maybe it just took its toll on me.

Anyway, thanks for all of the great posts on this subject. I will check back to hear what you and others may have to say on the subjects.

Thanks,


JoeyA

The answer is swerve... deceleration on the horizontal axis won't hurt if you still manage to hit on the axis.... A strike off of center at slower speeds than you intended means your deflection adjustment just went right out the window... I have seen shots you could not miss if you tried shot into the rail because they were hit without confidence and you could see the cueball run away from or past the intended path.....

 

[CJ Wiley]

TOI MAKES the player accelerate and acceleration is the vital key to playing great

"If you want to play pool great, you must accelerate" - CJ Wiley

That's right, acceleration is essential for precision and accuracy. This is why my only two thoughts when in "the zone" were "Accelerate/TOI" !!!

No one can use TOI without accelerating on every shot.....if they don't (accelerate) they will know right away because the "TOI Feedback" is so concise.

Using a "conventional method" of play you can decelerate and still make shots or come close enough not to notice what went wrong.

Not so with TOI, if you decelerate it's painfully obvious so TOI MAKES the player accelerate and acceleration is the vital key to playing your very, very best.

Picture being in a car that is perfectly aligned...on a straight and level road.
If you keep your foot gently on the gas peddle...you can take your hands off the steering wheel.
As soon as you take your foot off the gas, the car will wander.

Good poolplayers and golfers accelerate through the ball for accuracy
more so than power.
IMO

 

[Dunnn51]

This should be a real test for everyone. I'm just looking for YOUR opinion. You don't have to be "right" or "wrong", just what you think.

I'm not talking about the results of a confident stroke, like making the shot and getting shape.

What physical properties or mental properties should define a "confident stroke".

What is the difference difference between a "confident stroke" and one that is not? How are they different?

JoeyA

I didn't read all the posts here; so if it is already said my apologies.
When I hear "Barbara Eden," ( from I Dream of Jeannie ) whisper "yesss Master'" in my ear followed by a wikkked little grin as I watch my CB float, then squat right where I want it to be ! :wink: :grin-square:

 

[3RAILKICK]

Confidence builder...accelerate and 'finish'.

Practice that stroke..be engaged, 'see the result' before the shot, think firm but not hard, and stay down. Jumping up is not a confident stroke.

In practice, try closing eyes just before the last forward delivery stroke and contact. Open your eyes just after contact. Making the ball and getting shape this way adds to the confidence thing. Especially straight-ins.:grin:

 

[336Robin]

Confident Stroke

This should be a real test for everyone. I'm just looking for YOUR opinion. You don't have to be "right" or "wrong", just what you think.

I'm not talking about the results of a confident stroke, like making the shot and getting shape.

What physical properties or mental properties should define a "confident stroke".

What is the difference difference between a "confident stroke" and one that is not? How are they different?

JoeyA

Im so glad you asked first a short story. I quit pool for a long time. I came back as a much older man it had been 12 yrs since I had touched a cue and 22 yrs since I had serioiusly played. I found at around the age of 42 I had pretty much moulded into a private industry life and forgotten a lot of what youth gives you through what I deem as perfect depth perception. Having lost the gifts of youth I had to figure out how to do what I used to "just know" how to do by immediate sight. Confidence is something that went with the gift of perfect depth perception due to age.

So I had to really examine the things I did and find ways to relearn them and it was difficult because I would get a glimpse from time to time of something I well remembered. Those shots I slapped in with confidence that enabled me to put the white ball where I knew it should go. Without it more times than not it was hit with a tentative stroke that put me coming up short.

If had to put a definition on confidence it would be.....when you know how to do what you do and are able to perform without a doubt enabling you to excel at other areas of the game.

We all know what a sick feeling you get when you run all the balls and are left with a shot on the one shot you really don't understand quite yet and the odds are around 60/40 youre going to make it. So you hit and hope trying to be confident and it rattles in the pocket leaving your opponent out.

A confident stroke is a knowing stroke where you know exactly what it is you're doing and you all you have to do is now put whitey where you need him to be.

If you have that, you have a great deal of everything in my book. Thanks for asking. Also you can hear it. Its a certain ping when you hit the ball with a spinning cue ball, that release of friction and that quality that other players can hear that know what they are doing, sometimes it lets them know to tread lightly. I hope I answered your post correctly but that's what it is to me.

 

[JoeyA]

I think it's all about acceleration as well.
When I'm at my best, I feel like I'm spearing the cue ball with my cue.
Conversely, you see players lose that accelerating stroke under pressure and once that happens, confidence is gone, they're pretty much dead in the water.

BTW, Stuart Pettman probably has the cleanest accelerating stroke I've seen in person:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i1US7FOrX8

It's a thing of beauty!

Stuart's general stroking is quite good but his break stroke seems to have very little hesitation if any.

Thanks for sharing that hi-res video.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Im so glad you asked first a short story. I quit pool for a long time. I came back as a much older man it had been 12 yrs since I had touched a cue and 22 yrs since I had serioiusly played. I found at around the age of 42 I had pretty much moulded into a private industry life and forgotten a lot of what youth gives you through what I deem as perfect depth perception. Having lost the gifts of youth I had to figure out how to do what I used to "just know" how to do by immediate sight. Confidence is something that went with the gift of perfect depth perception due to age.

So I had to really examine the things I did and find ways to relearn them and it was difficult because I would get a glimpse from time to time of something I well remembered. Those shots I slapped in with confidence that enabled me to put the white ball where I knew it should go. Without it more times than not it was hit with a tentative stroke that put me coming up short.

If had to put a definition on confidence it would be.....when you know how to do what you do and are able to perform without a doubt enabling you to excel at other areas of the game.

We all know what a sick feeling you get when you run all the balls and are left with a shot on the one shot you really don't understand quite yet and the odds are around 60/40 youre going to make it. So you hit and hope trying to be confident and it rattles in the pocket leaving your opponent out.

A confident stroke is a knowing stroke where you know exactly what it is you're doing and you all you have to do is now put whitey where you need him to be.

If you have that, you have a great deal of everything in my book. Thanks for asking. Also you can hear it. Its a certain ping when you hit the ball with a spinning cue ball, that release of friction and that quality that other players can hear that know what they are doing, sometimes it lets them know to tread lightly. I hope I answered your post correctly but that's what it is to me.

Thanks for a very good and detailed reply!

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

The answer is swerve... deceleration on the horizontal axis won't hurt if you still manage to hit on the axis.... A strike off of center at slower speeds than you intended means your deflection adjustment just went right out the window... I have seen shots you could not miss if you tried shot into the rail because they were hit without confidence and you could see the cueball run away from or past the intended path.....

I agree with you. It is something I have always known which is that when you slow down the speed of the cue ball, you get more swerve, especially on older cloth that is not as slick as newer cloth (less friction).

Which brings me to another tangent. Squirt seems to have more effect on newer cloth than older cloth. Swerve seems to have more effect on older cloth than newer cloth, especially at slower speeds.

Thanks for making this important point. Hope I haven't muddied the water too much with my shooting theories.


JoeyA

 

[itsfroze]

Im so glad you asked first a short story. I quit pool for a long time. I came back as a much older man it had been 12 yrs since I had touched a cue and 22 yrs since I had serioiusly played. I found at around the age of 42 I had pretty much moulded into a private industry life and forgotten a lot of what youth gives you through what I deem as perfect depth perception. Having lost the gifts of youth I had to figure out how to do what I used to "just know" how to do by immediate sight. Confidence is something that went with the gift of perfect depth perception due to age.

So I had to really examine the things I did and find ways to relearn them and it was difficult because I would get a glimpse from time to time of something I well remembered. Those shots I slapped in with confidence that enabled me to put the white ball where I knew it should go. Without it more times than not it was hit with a tentative stroke that put me coming up short.

If had to put a definition on confidence it would be.....when you know how to do what you do and are able to perform without a doubt enabling you to excel at other areas of the game.

We all know what a sick feeling you get when you run all the balls and are left with a shot on the one shot you really don't understand quite yet and the odds are around 60/40 youre going to make it. So you hit and hope trying to be confident and it rattles in the pocket leaving your opponent out.

A confident stroke is a knowing stroke where you know exactly what it is you're doing and you all you have to do is now put whitey where you need him to be.

If you have that, you have a great deal of everything in my book. Thanks for asking. Also you can hear it. Its a certain ping when you hit the ball with a spinning cue ball, that release of friction and that quality that other players can hear that know what they are doing, sometimes it lets them know to tread lightly. I hope I answered your post correctly but that's what it is to me.

The ping people refer to hearing when a shot is struck well is the cue tip hitting the cue ball, not when an object ball is being struck by the spinning cue ball. That seems to be what your saying. (a certain ping when you hit the ball with a spinning cue ball) I've never heard anyone refer to a ping when talking about the cue ball hitting an object ball ???

 

[nobcitypool]

The answer is swerve... deceleration on the horizontal axis won't hurt if you still manage to hit on the axis.... A strike off of center at slower speeds than you intended means your deflection adjustment just went right out the window... I have seen shots you could not miss if you tried shot into the rail because they were hit without confidence and you could see the cueball run away from or past the intended path.....

Acceleration and velocity are two different things. The cue could be moving at a very high speed and actually be decelerating.

 

[JoeyA]

John, elaborate a little bit like CJ Wiley.

Joey son,it's not going to be a fact,rather,it's just folks making an opinion on the subject that you brought up.Aint many facts involved with a pool shot.

But since you asked...I'll give ya my thoughts....It's just the opp of a dog stroke John B.

John,
What defines a dog stroke? :thumbup:

JoeyA