Little Ko wins 8-Ball !!! Big KO ripped off, Pool hangs it's head

[Shannon.spronk]

So let me get this straight. You are complaining that Big KO was wronged by the tournament promoter by adding a player back in. You even go so far as to apologize to that player that will never read this. You know he will likely never read this but because you apologize you make yourself feel like some kind of pure gentleman of the sport.

Anyways I was not there while this was going on so I cannot fully speculate as to exactly why the decision was made.

Saying that this should not have happened because that is not the way that they have always done things in pool is a pretty poor example IMHO. What CSI is trying to do is change the way things are done with these tournaments rather than keeping the status quo which is obviously not working all that well given the steady decline in TV listings.

Now on to my personal feelings.
Do I feel like Big KO was wronged to some degree? Yeah he probably was. He expected to play Ralf then he thought he had a bye and then he had to play Shane. Certainly a quick rush of ups and downs.
Was CSI selling a certain amount of matches to their viewership? Yes they certainly were. They made a decision to make the matches happen rather than deal with customers *****ing because they did not get to watch a semifinal match and therefore deserve a refund. (Pretty weak to ask for a refund in that case if you ask me.
Would the decision have been the same if Shane was not involved? I really think that they would have made the same move regardless.
Would so many people have gotten their panties in a bunch if it was someone other than Shane? No probably not. Many people love him and many people hate him. There seems to be very few people in between.

 

[wayne]

My question is that the people that listened to the 10 ball heard MD complain pretty strongly with an open mic about the equipment being at fault for his loses and from how the commentators were talking on the final day of the 10 ball it seems that SVB also had an episode about the format and disappeared for at least the final day after he was knocked out.

Now if the whole idea behind these invitationals is to keep the complainers out will they be invited back next year?

What about Souquet? He is the one that created the problem by withdrawing. Hard to believe he couldn't get another flight for the $2500 he was guaranteed to make for 3rd/4th or the $5,000 or $8,000 for 2nd or 1st. Something doesn't add up there???

 

[(((Satori)))]

What about Souquet? He is the one that created the problem by withdrawing. Hard to believe he couldn't get another flight for the $2500 he was guaranteed to make for 3rd/4th or the $5,000 or $8,000 for 2nd or 1st. Something doesn't add up there???

That is exactly what I thought. I'd like to know the truth about what happened because I'm not buying the I had a flight to catch reason for withdrawing.

 

[ed2000]

What about Souquet? He is the one that created the problem by withdrawing. Hard to believe he couldn't get another flight for the $2500 he was guaranteed to make for 3rd/4th or the $5,000 or $8,000 for 2nd or 1st. Something doesn't add up there???

something surely isnt right here for sure (forfeiting to get on a plane when the tournament a few days away)..Ralf must have had something Very good waiting for him after he landed.lol and far as liking shane how can not like the guy i dont think i have never seen him even get mad at some of the bs some players have put him though

 

[Johnnyt]

I'm betting the early plane had to do with the Dennis match with him. Johnnyt

 

[naji]

A big congrats to Ko Ping Chung for a great showing under the circumstances.

A sad day for Pool, I would like to apologize to Ko Pin Yi for what happened to him.

Both events finals would have been Ko vs. Ko if handled fairly.

Do not look back ! The man had to go back home :wink:, they put second in command! All players happy! Stream watchers are happy too..

 

[takeitdown]

Nah the normal public doesn't read AZ so all this snot slinging won't drag us down any further......

How much do they pay you?

 

[punter]

I'm betting the early plane had to do with the Dennis match with him. Johnnyt

What exactly happened in Dennis' match with Souquet, and what was his motivation? Sounds like people are saying he lost to help Ralph for some reason. I think there aren't enough threads about this, this deserves it's own thread.

 

[boradriver]

I must be missing something because this type of thing happens in other sports and is handled the same way so why is it a big deal
.
In round robin format if the winner of the bracket can't for whatever reason continue then the next highest finisher in that bracket gets to advance.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I'm waiting for more info that is sure to come: from CSI, players, social media and people that are in the know. THEN I'll "cement" my individual opinion.

I'm not selling CSI, SVB, or Ralf down this shitstorm river just yet. Again, there's more to come - from all sides.

 

[BeiberLvr]

A big congrats to Ko Ping Chung for a great showing under the circumstances.

A sad day for Pool, I would like to apologize to Ko Pin Yi for what happened to him.

Both events finals would have been Ko vs. Ko if handled fairly.

This is for all of the people with memory problems who think what CSI did was wrong.

This year's World 9 Ball had 3 stages.

1. Stage 1 - 3 Qualifying rounds of 128 players. Four single elimination 32 player brackets, with the winner of each bracket advancing.

2. Stage 2 - 16 groups of 8 players. Double elimination with the top 4 from each group advancing.

3. Stage 3 - The final stage with 64 players.


Some might remember that Warren Kiamco did not win any of the 3 qualifiers in Stage 1. Yet he ended up in Stage 2, and was able to move on to Stage 3 where he lost in the first round against Wang Can. Please see quoted posts below from the World 9 Ball thread that explained the situation. A situation very much like what happened at the CSI event. A player fails to make it through the qualifying round, but is then picked (based on ranking) to take the place of someone who couldn't play the next stage.

What I find most humorous is that itsfroze was so happy that Kiamco made it through despite being eliminated.

See last page, bottom-right corner...

http://www.qbsf.qa/en/downloads/2014_W9BC_Stage_1.pdf

It appears Kiamco and Faraon still made it through to Stage 2, having had the best records of those who didn't win a bracket. I wouldn't be too surprised if one of them ends up winning the whole thing, lol.

I'm glad Kiamco made it through.

Did two of the original 116 in Stage 2 drop out / no show?

i heard oscar d is out not sure if thats true
the guy from kozoom said it on the stream chat

From Facebook:


Here is a list of the players who qualified for the big dance by winning their 32-man tournaments in Stage 1 here in Doha. There were 12 separate tournaments, race to 7, alternate break, single elimination. Brutally difficult with amazing talent from all over the world.

Liu Cheng Chieh(TPE)
Cheng Yu Hsuan(TPE)
Ko Pin Chung(TPE)
Francisco Felicilda(PHL) *Based in Qatar
Elvis Calasang(PHL)
Vilmos Foldes(HGR)
Elmer D. Haya(PHL)
Dennis Grabe(EST)
Tohru Kuribayashi(JPN)
Naoyuki Oi(JPN)
Yukio Akagariyama(JPN)
Ramili Gallego(PHL)

Additional Qualifiers who made it through because two players in the main draw dropped out.(Based on a points system throughout Stage 1)
Raymund Faraon(PHL)
Warren Kiamco(PHL)

Stage 2, the main event, begins on Saturday June 21.

 

[Inaction]

I can think of two examples in the pool world that support the way this was run. I played in an ACUI region and placed third. I knew there was a very slim possibility that I might represent the region at the nationals. If my friend's grades disqualified him and the second place guy could not go, I was in.

SD used to have qualifying tournaments to go to the State tournament. Win a weekly tournament to play in the final 8 double elimination final to determine who are the top three. If a weekly winner at location A wins a spot at another location, then the next in line during that week gets to play in the final 8 at location A. It was possible that finishing 8th place in a weekly would qualify someone for the final.

 

[ShootingArts]

sounds like the way futurities are ran

Sounds just like the way futurities are ran, or were, been a long time since I owned ponies. Running for hundreds of thousands of dollars or more the winner of each qualifier made it to the futurity. There was also a chance of a horse getting in on fastest time to finish filling the field or replace injured qualifier winners. Sounds like basically what happened here.

Looks to me like this could have been handled one of two ways: Either Ko plays the second highest placed player in Souquet's qualifying group or he plays the highest ranked player overall that didn't make the finals. Either way Ko plays somebody.

It isn't reasonable to say this should have been handled like a single or double elimination tourney. Different format, different way of handling things. If the top qualifiers fill the slots in the next stage of the competition then the top qualifiers fill the slots. If anyone can't play then they are replaced with the next highest player. I prefer the next highest player overall rather than the next highest player in the group of the player that couldn't continue but that might have created ties and more confusion.

Hu

 

[ineedaspot]

I don't think it was fair to do this unless it was explicitly in the rules before the tournament started. The round robin wasn't a qualifier for another tournament to be held at some future date, it was part of the same tournament. Ralf made it to the semis, and then he forfeit, that's it.

But I can see where they are coming from, wanting to give the streamers some pool to watch.

The weird thing is that Ralf dropped out in the first place. He seems like the kind of person who books his plane tickets well in advance, and also the kind of person who would tell the tourney directors about his flight before the last minute. In which case, what they should have done is found a new person to replace Ralf for the whole 8-ball tourney.

 

[HelloBaby-]

In the World Championship, everything was pre-defined, there was a point system in the 3 qualifications, after the the 3 qualifications they have a RANKING and a WAITING LIST based on points that ALL PLAYERS earned in the 3 qualifications.
the waiting list was there in case some players forfeit BEFORE the main event start, that's how Kiamco went through, fair and clear.
And we talked about QUALIFICATIONS and the MAIN EVENT, if someone forfeit AFTER the main event start, NOBODY gonna be called from the waiting list to replace him, fair and clear.

Here in the CSI Invitational, they did it IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TOURNAMENT, so it's wrong. Don't say that they didnt wrong KO, they wronged him big time.

But it's UNDERSTANDABLE considering the audience wanted to watch some good matchs especially SVB vs KO, PPV payers paid for 2 semis not one, etc etc

So all and all, it's wrong but understandable.

Kevin.

I stay with the idea of a blind draw from all the guys finished 2nd ( or tie for 2nd ) in their group.
Or just play the final KO vs KO and then one more exhibition match, something like little KO vs SVB.

This is for all of the people with memory problems who think what CSI did was wrong.

This year's World 9 Ball had 3 stages.

1. Stage 1 - 3 Qualifying rounds of 128 players. Four single elimination 32 player brackets, with the winner of each bracket advancing.

2. Stage 2 - 16 groups of 8 players. Double elimination with the top 4 from each group advancing.

3. Stage 3 - The final stage with 64 players.


Some might remember that Warren Kiamco did not win any of the 3 qualifiers in Stage 1. Yet he ended up in Stage 2, and was able to move on to Stage 3 where he lost in the first round against Wang Can. Please see quoted posts below from the World 9 Ball thread that explained the situation. A situation very much like what happened at the CSI event. A player fails to make it through the qualifying round, but is then picked (based on ranking) to take the place of someone who couldn't play the next stage.

What I find most humorous is that itsfroze was so happy that Kiamco made it through despite being eliminated.

 

[punter]

What exactly happened in Dennis' match with Souquet, and what was his motivation? Sounds like people are saying he lost to help Ralph for some reason. I think there aren't enough threads about this, this deserves it's own thread.

Anybody? Did something questionable happen here?

 

[one stroke]

I must be missing something because this type of thing happens in other sports and is handled the same way so why is it a big deal
.
In round robin format if the winner of the bracket can't for whatever reason continue then the next highest finisher in that bracket gets to advance.

I find this hilarious , I have played tournaments. In Hockey baseball soccer lacrosse tennis ping pong horse shoes pool basketball. Softball fishing darts pool horseshoes
Shuffleboard and I'm probably missing something ,
Not once have I ever seen a eliminated player or team come back from (Elimination )
So although it may have happened before it's certainly not the standard by any stretch of the imagination
Ko got F&$ed is what the bottom line is no way on earth did this not have a mental effect on his game ,
CSI dropped the ball on this one , they should have known there was a overlap and this was a possibility ,, and what they should have done since they didn't know is grow a pair and tell those players they will never be invited to another CSI event if they forfeit
At the end of the day it was avoidable and lack of checks and balances allowed it to happen


1

 

[bigchiefnd]

Dennis made some uncharacteristic mistakes in 3 out of last four racks. I seriously doubt that they were intentional, but Shane's match was over and he knew he couldn't advance. Maybe Ralf felt guilty as he thought he was gifted the match, I'm sure there is a lot more to the story than just Ralf had to catch a plane.

 

[punter]

Dennis made some uncharacteristic mistakes in 3 out of last four racks. I seriously doubt that they were intentional, but Shane's match was over and he knew he couldn't advance. Maybe Ralf felt guilty as he thought he was gifted the match, I'm sure there is a lot more to the story than just Ralf had to catch a plane.

Thank you, that sounds very plausible.

 

[jmurphy]

The shame of all this was CSI could have easily done right by KO having a KO/KO finals and also done right by the people who bought the live stream.
In place of the KO/Ralf match CSI could have put together a Challenge match to fill the slot. Something like KO/Shane, KO/Dennis or Shane/Dennis race to 8 for $1,000.
I'm sure the people who bought the stream would have been happy to see that.