Hopefully Ralph will answer that. I think assumptions have taken things out of proportion and we don't need to go down that road again.
Dave Jacoby is up now.
ABR 2Nite: Peeling The Onion and Wagging the Dog
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Hopefully Ralph will answer that. I think assumptions have taken things out of proportion and we don't need to go down that road again.
Dave Jacoby is up now.
That is something I am very interested in watching to see.
The CSI "error" that he was paid 3/4th makes it seem that there was at least one person at CSI that thought Ralf was the man that had progressed from his bracket.
I agree with CSI completely on the fact that Ralf caught them completely out of left field on this one and massively screwed them and put them in a bad spot.
The "withdrawl" thing "seems" a little like reverse engineering the whole thing. If that was in place right from the getgo then the instant Ralf said "I gotta go, I quit" they would have been in a position to respond "OK, fine, you get 5th/8th place money Ralf and SVB gets your spot".
It was a crap situation, and I am still with SJM in disagreeing on the way CSI went on this but I am also of the mind that CSI DOES have the ultimate right to make the call as they see fit because they are running the show.
The final conclusion I have in all of this? Ralf owes CSI $1000. I am very interested to see if he pays them.
Man, the last few minutes got cut off on Dave Jacoby's session for me. Anybody else?
I agree with this part in red of your post.
They did not touch on KO's side of the issue! Ralph is the bad guy they implied but KO was the one blindsided. I hope to hear from KO.
I was shocked that no attempt was made to fix things with KO and based on the podcast they did not even bother to contact them or had not been in touch. That surprised me that no attempt to mend fences or make sure the business relationship was not hurt. Bond ask them about KO and they said they had not been in contact if my memory serves me correct. So, please check the podcast to verify that! I would not like to be guilty of speculating at all!!
KD
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don't be so sure.... but you & i have agreed to disagree, before. it's not over, till it's over.
I am going to be very surprised if they come back. It is tough when you are in a country where you do not speak the language and getting hit with something like this.
It is sad because Mark and the rest of CSI certainly realize that this event was overall was one of the best ever regardless of "RalfGate".
A HUGE reason for this event being so amazing is the appearance of the Taiwanese and their showcasing of their insanely advanced skills. Ko vs Ko in the 10-ball final, Ko beats SVB in a race to 21 10-ball, Chang beats Orcullo by 5-packing him in the end of their match, and Little Ko wins the 8-ball? Those guys brought it and they put in more then their share to make the event great for CSI.
I hope that perhaps CSI can maybe attempt to see the happenings from Ko's point of view and maybe understand how this must have been for him. If they do so perhaps a phone call and an attempt to explain the CSI side of things and a personal apology to Ko for the abruptness and tension that precluded Ko's match.
Something like that might actually make the difference and allow Ko to accept the situation for the crap it was, get over it, and might get him to accept another offer to play another CSI event. I think EVERYONE can agree getting those guys out to challenge the best from the other areas of the world more and more is going to be a great thing for this sport.
Pinklady said:
Indeed, they still have time to extend the olive branch. They do not have forever, but I think waiting a week or two and then making an honest apology for what he had to go through in a bad situation in a CSI event would be a good move for the sport and a good move for CSI and maintaining a good reputation with the players who deserve it. Rodney? Forget him. Ralf? I think HE owes CSI an apology AND $1000, Ko? He was nothing but a super respectful pro that played hard and with honor the whole time and he deserved a little better then he got at the end no matter who anyone wants to blame, Ko was innocent in the whole thing but he is the one that got burned by it more then anyone else.
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A little about Ralf and flights
First, I think that Ralf pays back the money one way or another. I think it is valid to hold it out of any future winnings at any CSI event he plays in if nothing else.
Now about Ralf and the flight: Ralf seemed a bit confused himself and thought he had 3-4 money sewed up. Missing that flight could raise two issues. One they cancel the first ticket and you have to buy a new ticket. On an intercontinental flight like this it isn't a few hundred dollars you are talking about, it is a few thousand, maybe more. I know someone who flies over fifty times a year on business, flight changes at the last moment are prohibitively expensive. That is issue one. To win enough to justify a flight change Ralf thought he had to win a match or two and I doubt seriously he thought he was favored over the players he was facing.
He also very possibly couldn't find a last minute flight that would get him where he needed to be within a reasonable time. Flights have been reduced and the remaining flights are often jammed full especially on the expensive to operate flights like the ones involved here. With someone working full time to handle flights there are often booking problems with the business flights I am familiar with when there are last minute changes.
Ralf was gambling on missing his flight if he would have stayed to break a rack. The airlines can be ridiculous about not checking in the amount of time early they require.
Ralf could have gotten jammed when he learned he was playing deep. The original flight scheduling sounds very unRalflike but it happened. Not being able to make last minute changes that wouldn't have been cost prohibitive or added close to a day to the travel is very possible. Looks like Ralf made some mistakes but not as huge of sins as some may assume now.
CSI's responses matched my assumptions pretty much down the line as to what they did right and wrong.
I would suggest a 20-30 minute match delay when a last minute withdrawal takes place be added into the rules, just in fairness to the other player. It does take a shift of the mental gears when you get a last minute surprise and a few minutes hitting balls gives the existing player time to settle down and gives the new player time to loosen up although I think Shane did get a little practice time in.
A first time event and obviously CSI didn't explain every bit of their design to the players. Players aren't going to read a book or stand through a two hour players meeting anyway. Some confusion at the site, much more on AZB. Business as usual. It would be a lot worse if people didn't care!
Thanks Mark and Ozzie. Glad you had so much fun you are gonna do it again next year! :thumbup:
Hu
First, I think that Ralf pays back the money one way or another. I think it is valid to hold it out of any future winnings at any CSI event he plays in if nothing else.
Now about Ralf and the flight: Ralf seemed a bit confused himself and thought he had 3-4 money sewed up. Missing that flight could raise two issues. One they cancel the first ticket and you have to buy a new ticket. On an intercontinental flight like this it isn't a few hundred dollars you are talking about, it is a few thousand, maybe more. I know someone who flies over fifty times a year on business, flight changes at the last moment are prohibitively expensive. That is issue one. To win enough to justify a flight change Ralf thought he had to win a match or two and I doubt seriously he thought he was favored over the players he was facing.
He also very possibly couldn't find a last minute flight that would get him where he needed to be within a reasonable time. Flights have been reduced and the remaining flights are often jammed full especially on the expensive to operate flights like the ones involved here. With someone working full time to handle flights there are often booking problems with the business flights I am familiar with when there are last minute changes.
Ralf was gambling on missing his flight if he would have stayed to break a rack. The airlines can be ridiculous about not checking in the amount of time early they require.
Ralf could have gotten jammed when he learned he was playing deep. The original flight scheduling sounds very unRalflike but it happened. Not being able to make last minute changes that wouldn't have been cost prohibitive or added close to a day to the travel is very possible. Looks like Ralf made some mistakes but not as huge of sins as some may assume now.
CSI's responses matched my assumptions pretty much down the line as to what they did right and wrong.
I would suggest a 20-30 minute match delay when a last minute withdrawal takes place be added into the rules, just in fairness to the other player. It does take a shift of the mental gears when you get a last minute surprise and a few minutes hitting balls gives the existing player time to settle down and gives the new player time to loosen up although I think Shane did get a little practice time in.
A first time event and obviously CSI didn't explain every bit of their design to the players. Players aren't going to read a book or stand through a two hour players meeting anyway. Some confusion at the site, much more on AZB. Business as usual. It would be a lot worse if people didn't care!
Thanks Mark and Ozzie. Glad you had so much fun you are gonna do it again next year! :thumbup:
Hu
Time 38 minutes to 41 Ozzy says
"no, he has not heard that they were upset or anything of that nature!"
I found where it was asked and answered but listen for yourself 39 minute mark on the podcast.
KD
I understand the idea of making sure the international visitors are treated with respect. What I don't understand is the idea that's been repeated many times over the last week here, that Ko deserves an apology or that he was harmed in some way. He was going to have to play either Ralph, Shane, or Dennis. At worst, he thought he was going to play Souquet for an hour or so, and then learned that he was playing SVB instead - whom he had defeated twice in 10-ball over the pevious few days*. In most cases you don't know who you're going to play in advance. I don't see how this was any different, unless you take the position that he should have gotten a pass into the finals, and CSI obviously doesn't agree with that, so no apology is coming on those grounds.
*(Conversely, think about what Shane had to do - he thought he was out, and then had to come back and play with a half hour notice.)
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Kudos to CSI for their superb handling of this ABR broadcast.
The two most important things that Mark Griffin said were:
1) CSI will establish the policies and rules pertinent to this sort of contingency and communicate those policies so there will be no room for interpretation going forward in the event of a forfeit/withdrawal/no show.
2) Ralf's actions were "unconscionable." I'd be hard pressed to come up with a more accurate word than Mark did.
I see a happy ending here. As Billy Incardona noted in a different thread, this event will have a chance to blossom into something very special.
The two most important things that Mark Griffin said were:
1) CSI will establish the policies and rules pertinent to this sort of contingency and communicate those policies so there will be no room for interpretation going forward in the event of a forfeit/withdrawal/no show.
2) Ralf's actions were "unconscionable." I'd be hard pressed to come up with a more accurate word than Mark did.
I see a happy ending here. As Billy Incardona noted in a different thread, this event will have a chance to blossom into something very special.
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I must acknowledge the TONE of the podcast did not make me hopeful of their return. It just screamed we don't care if they are unhappy with the decision.
Kd
Good show, good questions, good job Mark C., and Mr. Bond. Thank you Ozzie and Mark G. for your answers.
It would be nice to hear from Ralf and Dennis O. But somehow I doubt they will want to talk publicly about it.
Thanks to CSI for your efforts. Great event. Good job trying to get the amateurs and pros together.
It would be nice to hear from Ralf and Dennis O. But somehow I doubt they will want to talk publicly about it.
Thanks to CSI for your efforts. Great event. Good job trying to get the amateurs and pros together.
When sjm is smiling, I'm smiling. :smile:
CSI is definitely going to address rules and communications.
And Ralf is apparently going to face sanctions, as mentioned in the broadcast. I'd think the severity depends on Ralf's response. I hope he owns up to it so we can soon see the Kaiser in CSI action sooner than later. Apparently, Ralf IS human and not a pool robot. :wink:
I have been thinking about trying to get Ralph for an interview to give his side of what happened but I think even if he agreed to be interviewed it would be a very short interview.
Something like, "So Ralph what happened?"
Ralph: I booked my flight wrong and I could not change it.
End of interview.
All in all I think it was informative interview this week,
Something like, "So Ralph what happened?"
Ralph: I booked my flight wrong and I could not change it.
End of interview.
All in all I think it was informative interview this week,
Mark, that was some good stuff last night. Those questions that you and Mr. Bond were asking were excellent.
Thank you Allen, seems like most people enjoyed it. Hope all is well with you.
I agree with this, same with Dennis O., he's certainly not going to admit anything to make himself look bad. Great job on the interview Mark!!
Thanks Punter, I appreciate it you kind words.
Same sentiments here. Overall a very good broadcast. But one "most important thing" I would like to add, which I would put on the very top of the list is...
0) CSI admitted that Ralf getting paid 3rd place was an error.
I know Ralf getting paid 3rd was a very significant factor in your strong opinion that Ko deserved to automatically advance to the finals, and I shared that opinion as well.
The one thing I expected from the interview, that didn't seem to come across from the talk, was an understanding that many felt so strongly against SVB advancing because of the fact that Ralf was paid 3rd place. As I reasoned elsewhere, Ralf getting paid 3rd was as if he started the semi-final match and forfeited. That is the main reason why some have held such strong negative opinions regarding the decision.
This situation probably wouldn't have been nearly as overblown if Ralf was correctly paid 5th place upon exit. If that were the case, then the reasoning to advance SVB would have been much more understandable (which it is). Ralf getting paid 3rd simply threw a wrench into the entire logic of that decision, and many have pointed that out.
But regardless, I am very satisfied that CSI admitted to the error. And I, too, see a happy ending here.