At what point do you stop experimenting with stance, stroke, etc

alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see from time to time threads from people experimenting with a new stance, cue position, stroke, and so forth. My question is at what point do you stop experimenting with fundamentals?


Earl Strickland is famous for trying new stuff. I've seen him use sports glasses, tennis wrap, arm and leg weights, cue extension and who knows what else but if you watch an Earl video from 25 years ago his fundamentals are the same. Same stance, cue under right eye, stroke.
 
Right now ..........

Just shoot pool and practice...................

Your stroke is most important. How you stand is up to what your body feels most comfortable with.... watch the pros.... they all stand differently.....


Don't dissect it.......... play it.

Kim
 
That's a good question. Not sure I know the answer. I would say that once you have dissected your ideal stance, stroke, etc...then it's mostly about mastering YOUR fundamentals. I don't know if that means you stop experimenting. I know you do have to give things time to really settle in and not try to change up all the time because consistency is critical. I've always looked at pool as an "Infinite game", as in if you play every day of your life and live to 100, you still won't have the game "mastered". The object of pool is never about winning a rack...it's about continuing shooting.
 
One point where countless players stop experimenting (for a long while at least) is after they've visited with a professional instructor of any renown who combines his/her expertise with a dissected video of the student's flaws (improvable areas) then shows him/her how to solo-practice the elimination of those flaws.

Beyond that important step, be comfortable with, and even celebrate, the fact that one of the lifelong sheer pleasures of our sport is the opportunity to tweak one's game when awareness of new techniques, newly-admired pro players, and even accidental self-discoveries take place.

Arnaldo
 
alstl said:
I see from time to time threads from people experimenting with a new stance, cue position, stroke, and so forth. My question is at what point do you stop experimenting with fundamentals?


Earl Strickland is famous for trying new stuff. I've seen him use sports glasses, tennis wrap, arm and leg weights, cue extension and who knows what else but if you watch an Earl video from 25 years ago his fundamentals are the same. Same stance, cue under right eye, stroke.
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You should always be trying to improve all of your fundamentals, but not at the expense of your confidence.

This is something I struggle with as I improve. I have heard of great golfers that were going to be the next tiger woods but they drank the koolaid and changed thier swing to something more orthodox and lost all of their confidence.

I try to improve my stroke, stance, bridge and grip but not break them. If a change doesn't start showing improvements in about 2-4 weeks; I go back to how I was shooting and just try to have fun.
 
I used to have a great stroke, but it looked like the Filipino bicycle stroke. Then I changed it up, trying to stroke more like the Europeans. That ruined everything, I was starting all over again. I finally started stroking well again, but it took a lot of time and effort to get that ugly bicycle pump stroke out.

I tried the short cues, the long cues, the thin shafts, the thick shafts, the light cues, the heavy cues, wraps and wrapless; Then it hit me, it didn't matter what I played with, it was what I practiced with, that mattered.
 
I have tried different stances and stuff, like standing more square to the table, but I think it all goes back to whats comfortable.
#1 make sure that you walk and set up straight behind your shot line always keeping your head in place
#2 I have found that when I do stoke exercises, just shooting balls into a pocket but really paying attention to stroke, like Tors 3000 shot drill, it helps keep my game sharper and more consistent.
 
where is your game?

Where is your game and where do you want it to be? If you are happy with your game then you might make small adjustments from time to time, but if you are not there yet, then the adjustments continue.

Are you competitive at league, in tournaments or gambling? Do you win? Can you beat the ghost? Can you run 75 balls in 14.1? Can you bank 5 and out regularly?

Have you set a goal?
 
Ronnie O'Sullivan changed his stance slightly when he was in the form of his life. He played below his very high par for a while but when he was back he was making birdies for fun ;-)
 
alstl said:
I see from time to time threads from people experimenting with a new stance, cue position, stroke, and so forth. My question is at what point do you stop experimenting with fundamentals?


Earl Strickland is famous for trying new stuff. I've seen him use sports glasses, tennis wrap, arm and leg weights, cue extension and who knows what else but if you watch an Earl video from 25 years ago his fundamentals are the same. Same stance, cue under right eye, stroke.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this is true or not regarding Earl's fundamentals.

He clearly has a much longer bridge than he used to have and this extended bridge length started long before he went to the javelin cue.

I also recall him commenting in an interview that he had tried out different techniques that he learned from Steve Davis.

I don't think it's easy to see the minute changes that players make in their technique without them pointing them out. I believe just in the past few years Darren Appleton tweaked his grip. Nobody would have ever noticed this unless he mentioned it. I think a lot of players make small changes. I think the problem many of us amateurs run into is we make too many changes and we don't really have enough time to really incorporate them into our games.

My game is really a mess right now because I've repositioned my feet and it's taking a long time to burn this in. I do understand the point of the initial post though, because for those of us that only have a limited amount of time to play -- is it really even worth it in the long run to go through the frustration of relearning something only to see your actual improvement stalled because of lack of table time?

Instead of 2 steps forward and 1 step back it becomes more like 2 steps forward and 2 steps back.

Oh well -- what else do we have to do really?
 
alstl said:
I see from time to time threads from people experimenting with a new stance, cue position, stroke, and so forth. My question is at what point do you stop experimenting with fundamentals?


Earl Strickland is famous for trying new stuff. I've seen him use sports glasses, tennis wrap, arm and leg weights, cue extension and who knows what else but if you watch an Earl video from 25 years ago his fundamentals are the same. Same stance, cue under right eye, stroke.
Click to expand...
You have to feel confident in what you do. Constant second guessing everything you do can become endless based on your last poor performance.

Hang around a pool room long enough and you will hear a thousand times someone exclaim,

"I just figured what I have been doing wrong"!!!!

Of course tomorrow it doesn't work any more. You have to have confidence in your game even when you are not playing your best. It will come back and there may never be a explanation why you were not hitting them so good today.

Once you begin wandering off the farm you can get really lost. It may sometimes require taking a short break from the game to get your mind straight and come back as "YOU" again, playing the game that has served you well for possibly many years.

Is there things you can learn even as a seasoned player, of course but not at the expense of your confidence and trust in your game. You may add something here and there but not destroy what you have spend years learning that represents your basic game.
 
When you stop missing silly..

alstl said:
I see from time to time threads from people experimenting with a new stance, cue position, stroke, and so forth. My question is at what point do you stop experimenting with fundamentals?


Earl Strickland is famous for trying new stuff. I've seen him use sports glasses, tennis wrap, arm and leg weights, cue extension and who knows what else but if you watch an Earl video from 25 years ago his fundamentals are the same. Same stance, cue under right eye, stroke.
Click to expand...

It's simple.... You stop experimenting when you stop missing, otherwise you're doing it wrong....:thumbup::cool::thumbup:

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
It's simple.... You stop experimenting when you stop missing, otherwise you're doing it wrong....:thumbup::cool::thumbup:

Jaden
Click to expand...
There in lies the problem, they are actually playing their speed. And with decent fundamentals will continue to improve with practice. When you own a pool room and spend thousands of hours with these guys listening to them and watching them you can see how really nuts they can become at times.

They often wreck their game with the constant experimenting with cues and every crazy thing they see or hear. One day the cue is too heavy the next it is too light. One day their foot is here then there, it becomes endless.

One of the worst things is emulation players they see thinking they will improve if they only copy some player they admire. Youtube has probably produced a lot of crazy players looking for the Holy Grail, instead of finding themselves.
 
arnaldo said:
One point where countless players stop experimenting (for a long while at least) is after they've visited with a professional instructor of any renown who combines his/her expertise with a dissected video of the student's flaws (improvable areas) then shows him/her how to solo-practice the elimination of those flaws.

Beyond that important step, be comfortable with, and even celebrate, the fact that one of the lifelong sheer pleasures of our sport is the opportunity to tweak one's game when awareness of new techniques, newly-admired pro players, and even accidental self-discoveries take place.

Arnaldo
Click to expand...

In most cases they will just give you some advice. They are not going to completely tear your game apart. Most players actually play just fine but need to practice more and maybe tweak something here and there.

Could you imagine an instructor seeing Efren for the first time and not knowing how well he played. By any estimation he does everything wrong.
The one key thing I always noticed with good to great players is.

Watch their eyes and their stroke and how the cue tip contacts the cueball, even the sound. You can erase out their whole body and you will see they are very much the same, but they all get there differently. It is also the hardest thing for a hustler to hide, that coordination that is there. It blends everything else together.
 
When you can make the balls on the table do "EXACTLY" what you envision them doing in your mind you can quit experimenting!

With this in mind, you can ONLY do what is physically possible even though it may seem possible in your mind. There may be an "exception" to this rule once in a while though...like when Efren, the Magician, steps up to the shot.

Aloha.
 
Good question, but probably best answered by a good instructor.

For myself, I've been told I have good mechanics. Little tweaks here and there are needed as things might go a little off over time.

I also think its a matter of how much time I am able to practice. Playing and practice are 2 different things. I play league twice a week and a little socially on weekends. Not much time spent doing real practice. Given this, most experimenting is less on mechanics and more on other parts of my game. For mechanics, simple and low maintenance works best for me.

IMHO, if you cannot dedicate substantial time to practice, big changes in mechanics can set you back for several months. Setting realistic goals within a certain time frame can dictate what you practice and what you change.
 
alstl said:
I see from time to time threads from people experimenting with a new stance, cue position, stroke, and so forth. My question is at what point do you stop experimenting with fundamentals?


Earl Strickland is famous for trying new stuff. I've seen him use sports glasses, tennis wrap, arm and leg weights, cue extension and who knows what else but if you watch an Earl video from 25 years ago his fundamentals are the same. Same stance, cue under right eye, stroke.
Click to expand...

You should never "experiment" or "fix". Decide how you want to play and build the game/stroke you desire. Time will teach you better ways to execute which you can incorporate into your build but never fix....always build.

Ken
 
I think there are enough stroke tests you can do to verify accuracy and consistency. Once confident in your stroke. You can work on other aspects of your game. Think to many people jump to aiming or learning to jump before they are ready. I hope to be getting a table soon. My plan is to never make a ball until I have a accurate and consistent stroke. Then I will work on other drills. When I miss a ball I want to feel confident it didn't come from tip to toes.
 
It all depends on where you are and where you want to go. Once you define those really well the answers should start to appear on where you need to work.

Some signs you might need to work on your fundamentals -

If you need more english on the CB when kicking to the left instead of the right - you don't need to work on your kicking game.. you need to work on your fundamentals.

If you can't make a straight in shot 10 times in a row - you don't need to work on your aim.. you need to work on fundamentals.

The other questions quickly becomes - which fundamentals are important and which ones aren't? What do i need to change so that my consistency goes from 95% -> 99.9%?
 
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