Blew BIH on 3 balls/WWYD?

[Black-Balled]

Except for the shot the original poster chose to shoot, this is the worst choice in this thread full of bad choices.

Nine ball doesn't require balls to travel a minimum amount of rails, it doesn't require minimum speeds, it's not a "roll the ball" game. Minimum rail travel and minimum speeds mean nothing, running out does.

ONB

You are coming across as overly argumentative, to me.

Running out is the obvious goal.

I believe most pro players- for whom running out is how they earn their livings- would choose to cut the ball in the z fashion Brandon illustrated.

Like Corey said, probably a small difference in the ultimate success%s, but slightly better is still better.

 

[Aaron_S]

Guess we know your weakness then. Your ability to aim long shots.

My weaknesses are legion, but I have a good track record against people who don't play good percentages.

Aaron

 

[Spimp13]

I am surprised that there isn't more responses in regards to it being player dependent on what shot you take. We all have our weaknesses and strengths. I would ask OP how he rates himself in the areas of follow, draw, cut shots, and speed control. That would help me determine what I think is the best method for him.

If I am coaching an APA 2 or 3 for example here I would potentially coach them different if they were good at follow shots with speed, vs a draw shot...or if they struggle with angles but can draw well with ball in hand, maybe go that route. It depends on the player and what they are good at. Saying one idea is better than the other technically may be right in a lot of peoples eyes, but I would need to know more about the player to determine what I think the best route for them to go.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

You are coming across as overly argumentative, to me.

Running out is the obvious goal.

I believe most pro players- for whom running out is how they earn their livings- would choose to cut the ball in the z fashion Brandon illustrated.

Like Corey said, probably a small difference in the ultimate success%s, but slightly better is still better.

I'm not overly interested in how I come across to you, I'm trying to help the OP learn how to run out the best way, in my opinion.

There are no hard & fast rules in pool, and especially not in 9 ball about how many rails is best for the cueball to travel (least amount), there is no hard & fast rule that says the cueball should be rolled somewhere when it can be shot otherwise.

Discussing layouts like this is how many newer players learn to think the game through so don't worry about me critiquing a shot selection. It's not argumentative to have a differing view gained through experience.

ONB

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Hit's em Hard, no way am I playing it that way.
Same result but much tougher to get there. Rattled the pocket twice where the other way I didn't miss. Using the rails is definitely the way to go.

If you haven't set it up yet try it both ways. Like I said, I'm on a 9 so the long follow is NOT the shot to play here.

Well I know what I've played before and how my stroke works. At one point in time, I would of also suggested the two rail, or the stun draw. As I said above, I must be speaking above some peoples skill level. The follow shot, I guess to me, has become easy enough to control that I don't think twice anymore. How hard are you hitting it to have it rattle anyways? That would indicate more than not to me that you're using power to try and get the follow rather than a smooth max top stroke. Also if you're rattling a nearly straight in shot and implying its difficult, there's your problem.

Now maybe there's a table factor here that may come into play, but as long as the table is of decent speed. I'll play the follow shot all day. But if the table is slow, I'll stun draw it back. I know the quality level difference between tables can have vastly different rails. So removing the chance of the rails reaction as a factor required for position allows me to more assuredly imply my stroke is in control. I've played on too many crappy tables to just trust that "Z" shot or the other two rail out of the corner.

 

[Koop]

Well I know what I've played before and how my stroke works. At one point in time, I would of also suggested the two rail, or the stun draw. As I said above, I must be speaking above some peoples skill level. The follow shot, I guess to me, has become easy enough to control that I don't think twice anymore. How hard are you hitting it to have it rattle anyways? That would indicate more than not to me that you're using power to try and get the follow rather than a smooth max top stroke. Also if you're rattling a nearly straight in shot and implying its difficult, there's your problem.

Now maybe there's a table factor here that may come into play, but as long as the table is of decent speed. I'll play the follow shot all day. But if the table is slow, I'll stun draw it back. I know the quality level difference between tables can have vastly different rails. So removing the chance of the rails reaction as a factor required for position allows me to more assuredly imply my stroke is in control. I've played on too many crappy tables to just trust that "Z" shot or the other two rail out of the corner.

To each their own, bud. You like the follow and I like the rails. I guess in the end it really doesn't matter as long as you get there.

Kumbaya,
Koop

 

[Koop]

Here is a good pic I just took of the shot you are proposing. I agree that it's not super difficult, just that I think the rails are easier as well the shot being easier.

 

[victorl]

I've played on too many crappy tables to just trust that "Z" shot or the other two rail out of the corner.

You have a point there. On a bar table, I would probably play the follow shot.

 

[3RAILKICK]

Well I know what I've played before and how my stroke works. At one point in time, I would of also suggested the two rail, or the stun draw. As I said above, I must be speaking above some peoples skill level. The follow shot, I guess to me, has become easy enough to control that I don't think twice anymore. How hard are you hitting it to have it rattle anyways? That would indicate more than not to me that you're using power to try and get the follow rather than a smooth max top stroke. Also if you're rattling a nearly straight in shot and implying its difficult, there's your problem.

Now maybe there's a table factor here that may come into play, but as long as the table is of decent speed. I'll play the follow shot all day. But if the table is slow, I'll stun draw it back. I know the quality level difference between tables can have vastly different rails. So removing the chance of the rails reaction as a factor required for position allows me to more assuredly imply my stroke is in control. I've played on too many crappy tables to just trust that "Z" shot or the other two rail out of the corner.

To help me understand your follow shot...you are using a smooth stroked very high center ball cb? vs a 'force follow' shot to travel down table?

Are you picking a landing spot en route to a place on the end rail to leave a good natural angle 8 to the 9? Is the cb going to come short of the rail, or bounce off?

Or, will your cb head toward either side rail, bounce toward the final stopping point, leaving a nice natural angle 8 to 9?

Admittedly, for a follow shot of this distance, I have trouble with pinpoint control, and would likely involve a side rail to 'come down the line'.

I chose the draw shot for a similar but different reason...I felt most comfortable with that shot and the landing area....

..if I had hit my bad shot a little better...it would have been perfect.

...whereas if I had chosen the 'Z' shot, and hit it kinda bad, it probably would have come out pretty good.

The accurate table length follow, I didn't consider in this long distance travel situation...something else for me to work on.:thumbup:

 

[BRussell]

Has anyone suggested the 7 in the side, follow down to the 8? It's a long way from the side, but if the side pockets are forgiving on the table, I'd look at it. It seems the easiest way to get to the 8 if I felt confident I'd make the 7.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Here a novel idea. Everyone set this shot up and record a video of how you would play this pattern. Set it up and shoot it 3 times without stopping video. Post the vid here. Then we will all be able to see the results of how you did it. A little honesty is required. If you only can do it 1 out of 3, post it. That way we can all see the difficulties involved with a certain pattern for all skill levels.

I've been thinking about it and Im considering changing my view. I'm kind of like the follow on the 7 to below the 8. Follow on 8 and take 9 in left upper. Very natrual cue ball path.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Here is a good pic I just took of the shot you are proposing. I agree that it's not super difficult, just that I think the rails are easier as well the shot being easier.

Maybe instead of aiming for the cue ball to hit the end rail. Aim to hit the side rail. The angle is much more shallow than the "Z" shot so the cue ball should still stay close enough to the first diamond on the end rail to still have room to stroke.

I'm beginning to think there's a bigger problem going on. It's how you guys are trying to get from the 8->9. If you're scared of hitting the point of the side pocket, even if the 9 was froze, that indicates a poor table. But it also shows that if your scared of positioning under the 9 to shoot across the side pocket with the 9, you have problems striking the cue ball correctly.

Which leads to the point of, this is the out people dog more often then not. Doesn't matter ball in hand or not. Some people just don't possess the skill set to run out, and shouldn't be offering advice for what is easy. Not targeting the statement at you Koop, but the range of players who can't make the shot themselves so it suddenly becomes a difficult shot because they can't make it. I used to be in the same boat, then I learned a few things about throw and angles. Its much more complicated than that simplistic statement, and I wish there was an easy way to say it.

 

[Koop]

Maybe instead of aiming for the cue ball to hit the end rail. Aim to hit the side rail. The angle is much more shallow than the "Z" shot so the cue ball should still stay close enough to the first diamond on the end rail to still have room to stroke.

I'm beginning to think there's a bigger problem going on. It's how you guys are trying to get from the 8->9. If you're scared of hitting the point of the side pocket, even if the 9 was froze, that indicates a poor table. But it also shows that if your scared of positioning under the 9 to shoot across the side pocket with the 9, you have problems striking the cue ball correctly.

Which leads to the point of, this is the out people dog more often then not. Doesn't matter ball in hand or not. Some people just don't possess the skill set to run out, and shouldn't be offering advice for what is easy. Not targeting the statement at you Koop, but the range of players who can't make the shot themselves so it suddenly becomes a difficult shot because they can't make it. I used to be in the same boat, then I learned a few things about throw and angles. Its much more complicated than that simplistic statement, and I wish there was an easy way to say it.

It's cool. I'm no pro by any means so I take all of it as learning experiences. I still don't like the follow shot though

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

To help me understand your follow shot...you are using a smooth stroked very high center ball cb? vs a 'force follow' shot to travel down table?

Force follow makes the object ball hit the pocket with speed, and as Koop showed it has a chance to rattle. High smooth follow will get the object ball to the pocket at pocket speed.

Are you picking a landing spot en route to a place on the end rail to leave a good natural angle 8 to the 9? Is the cb going to come short of the rail, or bounce off?

Or, will your cb head toward either side rail, bounce toward the final stopping point, leaving a nice natural angle 8 to 9?

That's the great thing about this position. Don't roll it far enough to play shape off the 8 to under the 9 for the top left corner. You have enough angle to play for the 9 in the top right. Leave yourself in-between playing top for above or below the 9, you have the option to draw back with bottom right for position.

So whether you want to follow straight to the end rail, or catch the side rail first. The area the cue ball has to land in for position is bigger than of the "Z" shot. The reason for that is because you are intentionally trying to not have the cue ball hit inside the first diamond near the corner pocket on the "Z" shot. Which cuts off a huge area of possible positions.

Admittedly, for a follow shot of this distance, I have trouble with pinpoint control, and would likely involve a side rail to 'come down the line'.

That's what's great about follow. You don't have to have pinpoint control. Position happens once the cue ball reaches the second diamond towards the bottom right, and continues all the way to the rail and back out. Four diamonds of positioning room for a shot compared to the 2 diamond area with the "Z" shot.

If you try to adhere to the practice of always coming into the line of your shot you'll eventually run into situations where that ideology is impossible to follow. It's a good rule of thumb to try and improve your game with, but as with everything else, it isn't an end all be all piece of advice.

I chose the draw shot for a similar but different reason...I felt most comfortable with that shot and the landing area....

..if I had hit my bad shot a little better...it would have been perfect.

And there is still a shot that you must not have experienced yet that gets you out of that jam and back into position.

...whereas if I had chosen the 'Z' shot, and hit it kinda bad, it probably would have come out pretty good.

The accurate table length follow, I didn't consider in this long distance travel situation...something else for me to work on.:thumbup:

As I mentioned above. The area for position with follow is huge compared to every other shot. It's almost impossible to go too long, and the only way to end up short is if you just don't have the ability to use follow. Which leads to the point that if you can't control the vertical axis of the cue ball for this shot, you shouldn't be getting out from this position anyways.

 

[Aaron_S]

Like Corey said, probably a small difference in the ultimate success%s, but slightly better is still better.

Yeah, we are just talking about a few % points either way. Those of us who have competed at a fairly high level (not to knock anyone ) know all too well how important it is to take advantage of those few % points wherever you can find them.

Aaron

 

[Bob Jewett]

Force follow makes the object ball hit the pocket with speed, and as Koop showed it has a chance to rattle. High smooth follow will get the object ball to the pocket at pocket speed.
....

Some think pocket speed is just a little harder than it takes to get to the pocket. If you play the follow shot hard enough to get to the right end cushion (or close to it) the speed on the 7 is enough to bank it back to the other short rail (left) if it misses the pocket by a full ball on the short rail.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Some think pocket speed is just a little harder than it takes to get to the pocket. If you play the follow shot hard enough to get to the right end cushion (or close to it) the speed on the 7 is enough to bank it back to the other short rail (left) if it misses the pocket by a full ball on the short rail.

No, that's how YOU strike the ball. Not how everyone else does. Don't let your own stroke dictate what my stroke is capable of. I'll let the table tell me what I'm capable of and not you.

 

[Bob Jewett]

No, that's how YOU strike the ball. Not how everyone else does. Don't let your own stroke dictate what my stroke is capable of. I'll let the table tell me what I'm capable of and not you.

Try the shot. Let us know how far the object ball goes if you miss it on the short rail and get the cue ball to the end rail. No fair using a carom cue ball.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Try the shot. Let us know how far the object ball goes if you miss it on the short rail and get the cue ball to the end rail. No fair using a carom cue ball.

Like I said earlier, fast table I'm doing to the follow all day. The object ball won't get past the side pockets. You want me to shoot the shot on a slow table to prove your point? But I'm not here to play scientist with table conditions and what shot is best. I know what I'm capable of. And I know what my ability to impart spin is. Next time you want to infer what I'm capable of just don't reply. It's shameful on you to try and control the ideology of pool playing.

 

[branpureza]

No fair using a carom cue ball.

Hahaha :thumbup: