One-pocket etiquette

[Andrew Manning]

A question to those that play the game more than I do:

First the situation. I'm playing on a ball-return table, so balls have to be taken out of the return and put on the correct side of a rack attached to the table for score-keeping.

I broke the first game, and when my opponent broke in the second, he chose the same side I had broken from first, meaning we've now switched pockets from one game to the next.

I've made the first 4 balls in the second game. My opponent has just made a ball in his pocket, making the score 4-1.

If it matters, we're playing for money, but very cheap.

He racks his ball and says, not in a joking tone, "Man, I didn't even remember pocketing all those balls."

Confused, I look at the foot end of the table, and there are 5 balls on his side. I realize I have mistakenly racked my 4 balls on the wrong side; I hadn't adjusted to the fact that we switched sides between games.

I point out that he didn't pocket all those balls, and that I'd been racking mine on the wrong side, and the score should be 4-1. He smiles and says "let's just leave them where they are." This time he does sound like he's joking, and he follows up by agreeing that one ball was his and the rest were mine.

But it occurred to me that I was at his mercy. Racking the balls on his side was my mistake, and I don't know the guy well enough to assume he'd be a gentleman about it.

So finally the question: would any of you have told me "tough sh*t, they're on my side" and insisted the score was 5-0 in your favor? Have you seen other players do so? And if he had done that, would I have had any real recourse, other than to either accept it or quit (forfeiting the game in progress)? Just curious whether this situation always plays out the way it did for me, or whether it often gets uglier.

-Andrew

 

[Old Nine Baller]

A question to those that play the game more than I do:

First the situation. I'm playing on a ball-return table, so balls have to be taken out of the return and put on the correct side of a rack attached to the table for score-keeping.

I broke the first game, and when my opponent broke in the second, he chose the same side I had broken from first, meaning we've now switched pockets from one game to the next.

I've made the first 4 balls in the second game. My opponent has just made a ball in his pocket, making the score 4-1.

If it matters, we're playing for money, but very cheap.

He racks his ball and says, not in a joking tone, "Man, I didn't even remember pocketing all those balls."

Confused, I look at the foot end of the table, and there are 5 balls on his side. I realize I have mistakenly racked my 4 balls on the wrong side; I hadn't adjusted to the fact that we switched sides between games.

I point out that he didn't pocket all those balls, and that I'd been racking mine on the wrong side, and the score should be 4-1. He smiles and says "let's just leave them where they are." This time he does sound like he's joking, and he follows up by agreeing that one ball was his and the rest were mine.

But it occurred to me that I was at his mercy. Racking the balls on his side was my mistake, and I don't know the guy well enough to assume he'd be a gentleman about it.

So finally the question: would any of you have told me "tough sh*t, they're on my side" and insisted the score was 5-0 in your favor? Have you seen other players do so? And if he had done that, would I have had any real recourse, other than to either accept it or quit (forfeiting the game in progress)? Just curious whether this situation always plays out the way it did for me, or whether it often gets uglier.

-Andrew

If you were an honest guy who didn't pull moves on me I would let you take your balls. If you were a dishonest guy who constantly pulled moves on me I wouldn't let you have them. I'll play it according to the actions of the guy I'm playing.

Yes, it has happened in games I've been playing, but rarely and we weren't playing cheap.

ONB

 

[Bob Jewett]

... So finally the question: would any of you have told me "tough sh*t, they're on my side" and insisted the score was 5-0 in your favor? Have you seen other players do so? And if he had done that, would I have had any real recourse, other than to either accept it or quit (forfeiting the game in progress)? Just curious whether this situation always plays out the way it did for me, or whether it often gets uglier.

-Andrew

I would have probably asked when I started to put my ball up, assuming I remembered that I made only one ball and not five. I have not seen players demand to keep balls that both players know are not theirs.

I suppose that if he insisted you could say, "I usually play that we make the score right regardless of whether someone forgets to put the balls up. Instead we can play that if you leave the table without racking your balls, they are automatically the other player's." Then you will learn to be very careful about racking at the end of your inning, and with low stakes you can't lose too much.

Then there is the kind of player who says that if he fails to spot an owed ball at the first opportunity the debt is forgiven. Usually this rule is referred to as "You snooze, you lose." I've thought about suggesting the reverse: If you fail to spot a ball when you should, it's clear that you're trying to get away with something so not only do you have to spot that ball but your debt is not reduced -- you lose another ball for the "forgetfulness."

 

[Andrew Manning]

Then there is the kind of player who says that if he fails to spot an owed ball at the first opportunity the debt is forgiven. Usually this rule is referred to as "You snooze, you lose." I've thought about suggesting the reverse: If you fail to spot a ball when you should, it's clear that you're trying to get away with something so not only do you have to spot that ball but your debt is not reduced -- you lose another ball for the "forgetfulness."

Since I believe failing to spot a ball is more often an act of true forgetfulness than subterfuge, I don't know if I'd agree with your suggested rule.

I do, however, think that invoking the phrase "you snooze, you lose" in response to someone asking that you abide by the rules of the game should be punishable by at least one ball.

-Andrew

 

[Andrew Manning]

If you were an honest guy who didn't pull moves on me I would let you take your balls. If you were a dishonest guy who constantly pulled moves on me I wouldn't let you have them. I'll play it according to the actions of the guy I'm playing.

Yes, it has happened in games I've been playing, but rarely and we weren't playing cheap.

ONB

Yeah, I do know some players against whom I'd be significantly less inclined to do the right thing.

-Andrew

 

[Colonel]

You do the right thing, act like a gentlemen & you're more inclined to be treated like one

 

[bbb]

proper etiquette says you should get the balls that you deserve.
but one could argue that possesion is 100%
if he insists they are his what you do depends on
many factors such
you have the best of it and he loses to you regularly
in that case the customer is always right....:grin:
for examle
or follow the advice above

 

[boogeyman]

proper etiquette says you should get the balls that you deserve.
but one could argue that possesion is 100%
if he insists they are his what you do depends on
many factors such
you have the best of it and he loses to you regularly
in that case the customer is always right....:grin:
for examle
or follow the advice above

First off, try to avoid playing (one pocket) on a "gully."
Pockets that go into a players "drop" pocket stay there and are thus easier to track.

Second, you HAVE to remember what the score is at ALL TIMES, otherwise,
you risk not getting your points due to a "reason" to argue the situation.

You brought up the issue of switching pockets on the break—I don't think that's relevant here to the discussion.

In any case, bbb alluded to it (in bold), but allow me to state it correctly:

"Possession is 9/10 of the law."
Meaning ownership is easier to maintain once it is in the custody of an individual.

And so there ya have it...........

 

[wutang]

use the tray....

To avoid any confusion in the future, use the tray that the balls were carried in to bring to the table.Then your 'opponent' can put and claim balls on either side of the slots because yours are in the tray away from the table. This takes out the 'move' 100%.

And as far as 'snoozing', d mn that. Pay what you owe. Time doesn't dictate rules. This move is for 'players' looking for any and every advantage to win without effort on their behalf. They want things handed to them. They want it easy. Stand your ground.


Wutang

 

[Ky Boy]

I am one of the most amicable person on and off the table. We have all been on both sides of this scenario at one point or another; whether it be 1p, marking rotation games, etc. With that, I will state my case but if it gets too heated I give in or at least find a solution for both players. But if they want to resort to shenanigans I will bear down and play that much harder feeling the pool gods will help me out anyway.

The right thing to do is give up the balls when you know they aren't yours. Even the guy you were playing didn't recall making as many as were in his side of the rack. It really takes a jerk to insist on keeping them.

 

[Andrew Manning]

But if they want to resort to shenanigans I will bear down and play that much harder feeling the pool gods will help me out anyway.

I like this way of thinking. I'm going to try to keep it in mind next time an opponent is less than honorable in any way. Although it doesn't come up much; most of the players in my area are pretty good about doing the honorable thing, even though some of them still manage to come across as jerks while doing it

-Andrew

 

[thintowin]

You do the right thing, act like a gentlemen & you're more inclined to be treated like one

not much else needs to be said.

 

[beetle]

But the most important question is, did you win $$$ ?
If so, congrats! I'll have to learn that game one of these days. Too impatient for it now, though.

 

[Andrew Manning]

But the most important question is, did you win $$$ ?
If so, congrats! I'll have to learn that game one of these days. Too impatient for it now, though.

I was up several games when the dust settled. I either had the best of it, or I wasn't getting his best game. A couple guys in there who know us both expressed surprise I was willing to play him even, which makes me think he has a higher gear than I was seeing last night. Or maybe I'm just underrated He definitely is used to more forgiving pockets, anyway.

-Andrew

 

[Black-Balled]

I like this way of thinking. I'm going to try to keep it in mind next time an opponent is less than honorable in any way. Although it doesn't come up much; most of the players in my area are pretty good about doing the honorable thing, even though some of them still manage to come across as jerks while doing it

-Andrew

It has been so long since we played, I am surprised you remember the experience.

Ben moves soon. we should have a pool party before shit happens.

 

[The Kiss]

To avoid any confusion in the future, use the tray that the balls were carried in to bring to the table.Then your 'opponent' can put and claim balls on either side of the slots because yours are in the tray away from the table. This takes out the 'move' 100%.

And as far as 'snoozing', d mn that. Pay what you owe. Time doesn't dictate rules. This move is for 'players' looking for any and every advantage to win without effort on their behalf. They want things handed to them. They want it easy. Stand your ground.


Wutang

Ding Ding Ding....Winner...seriously if you both know you pocketed the balls they should still count for your score. If the guys a DB its is the last time I would gamble with him..If he made the mistake he would want you to be honest.

This is like when its 1 -1 on the wire your white beads he is black beads. He started as black beads so you are white. You win 5 in a row but you by mistake put them on the black side. Score is still 6-1 you. You point it out to him and he flat out lies and says the score is correct. I either try to work it out or I unscrew and tell him game is over F off

 

[fat Albert]

Within the content of this post lies one of the biggest problems with Pool and it's unlikely advancement and growth. How juvenile and shady to even have to ponder such a situation . It all goes back to Character and unfortunately in most pool rooms it is a scarce comodity

 

[smoooothstroke]

A question to those that play the game more than I do:

First the situation. I'm playing on a ball-return table, so balls have to be taken out of the return and put on the correct side of a rack attached to the table for score-keeping.

I broke the first game, and when my opponent broke in the second, he chose the same side I had broken from first, meaning we've now switched pockets from one game to the next.

I've made the first 4 balls in the second game. My opponent has just made a ball in his pocket, making the score 4-1.

If it matters, we're playing for money, but very cheap.

He racks his ball and says, not in a joking tone, "Man, I didn't even remember pocketing all those balls."

Confused, I look at the foot end of the table, and there are 5 balls on his side. I realize I have mistakenly racked my 4 balls on the wrong side; I hadn't adjusted to the fact that we switched sides between games.

I point out that he didn't pocket all those balls, and that I'd been racking mine on the wrong side, and the score should be 4-1. He smiles and says "let's just leave them where they are." This time he does sound like he's joking, and he follows up by agreeing that one ball was his and the rest were mine.

But it occurred to me that I was at his mercy. Racking the balls on his side was my mistake, and I don't know the guy well enough to assume he'd be a gentleman about it.

So finally the question: would any of you have told me "tough sh*t, they're on my side" and insisted the score was 5-0 in your favor? Have you seen other players do so? And if he had done that, would I have had any real recourse, other than to either accept it or quit (forfeiting the game in progress)? Just curious whether this situation always plays out the way it did for me, or whether it often gets uglier.

-Andrew

There are no tournament type rules when gambling.If your opponent had been unreasonable or refused to allow you to count your balls you can allways unskrew Sometimes there are situations where there is an issue that cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of both players,in these cases you can either coddle your opponent(play the nice guy and let him get away with murder)or stand on what you know is right by refusing to give up any of your 4 balls or unskrew and do not pay the disputed game.

If you unskrew you prob lose your action with the guy.If you take a stand you may win that game/bet and lose future action.If you laugh it off and let him have the ball you win in the long run even if you lose that game.

Of course this is all hypothetical because no1 would likely be that unreasonable or obtuse but if some1 wants to pull a move they might go that far.

 

[GoldCrown]

Unscrew and quit. Find a new game. He knew what he was doing.

 

[Scott Lee]

This is exactly what my buddy Lance Cowles (Bossman69) does. He has two ball trays for each table...one for each opponent. That way there's no confusion. For the record, neither he nor I would EVER try to pull that move...

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

To avoid any confusion in the future, use the tray that the balls were carried in to bring to the table.Then your 'opponent' can put and claim balls on either side of the slots because yours are in the tray away from the table. This takes out the 'move' 100%..

Wutang