veneer rings

[TomHay]

Okay, I did go to your site and look around. Given the ready availability of components and information on DIY CNC I was actually a little shocked at the high prices. Below is a photo of a 4- axis machine I built a couple of years ago for a HOF cuemaker. As I recall he had less than $5k in it when I was done, and he could have built it himself for more like $3k:

TW

.

I think this is a "What comes first, the Chicken or the Egg"

I have REBUILT my own CNC before, had to, I was out 35K.

It was a good experiance as now I know every working part.

I don't think a lot of the people in here have the full equipment such as Milling machine accurate enough to build true quality CNC machines but would like to accent their cue work.

Thomas Wayne, I understand what you are saying and why. Anyone not knowing you were a CNC God before all this equipment came out would need to do a lot of reading up to deny you of that.

I however have to look at the CNC you built for $5,000.00 which a DIY could have made for $3,000.00 which to me is a pretty good mark up.

This is not a bash, just a look from what you wrote. I will buy all the completed CNC equipment new you can make for $5.000.00 per unit that meets the specs you post of that electric spindle router does not look like it comes cheap.

You are good, perhaps the best, no question at CNC that is a given.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...] Changing the topic is the oldest trick in the book of obfuscation.

You should know, Rick - it's your stock in trade.

To go out of you way to diminish what Unique has presented as a business offering and to somehow believe the price point is wrong shows your lack of understanding of basic business realities.

Didn't "go out of my way" at all, Rick. I had stopped by anyway, so I was already here when I discovered someone running a cuemaking business reliant on CNC machinery having a major axis with less travel than the length of my pinkie finger. Having used CNC machinery predominantly to earn a living for over 3 decades I found it impossible to not comment on the absurdity of such a thing. I get that a less informed beginner such as yourself would not recognize or appreciate that absurdity.

Do you really think that you have to build your own machine to do a function using a CNC. Why don't you build your own lathe and milling machine too so you can do better turning and milling jobs!

Not only do I not think you HAVE to build your own CNC machinery, I also didn't SAY you have to. I simply said if you want to save money and end up with a better machine that is perfectly suited to your needs then it's a good idea.

Speaking of "obfuscation", where did I say that ALL commercially produced machines (such as lathes and mills) are not good enough? Really, Rick, I'd prefer you not put your own idiotic words into my mouth simply so you can shift the argument away from the immediate topic.

What Unique has done is found a market niche whereby a cue maker can buy a machine and do inlays and pockets in their cues with high accuracy if they opt for the NSK spindle. If you think those machines don't do 2D pocketing and profiling to a high level of accuracy, well you must have blinders on.

Where did I say they aren't accurate, Rick? Can you quote me, or is that just more of your "obfuscation"?

No one gains, when they attack another man's business or practices. It always looks and smells like sour grapes.

Again, where did I "attack" another man's business or practices? Stick to the FACTS, Rick. I pointed out the utter ridiculousness of having a CNC machine incapable of cutting inlay parts from stock any wider than 1 1/2 inches, and I pointed out that one can easily build an equal or better machine for far less money. Not everyone, of course. Almost certainly not YOU. But some can, and they should be allowed to know that they can.

I think it's wonderful that UInique can command the prices they do for what they offer. Really, Rick, good for them. But from what I am able to see on this forum I would guess the average beginner or "wannabe" cuemaker is probably not wealthy, and I guess I feel those guys should know that it can be done better for less money.

That's my opinion - heavily influenced by cold hard facts. Don't like it, Rick? I couldn't care less.

TW

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...] of reading up to deny you of that.

I however have to look at the CNC you built for $5,000.00 which a DIY could have made for $3,000.00 which to me is a pretty good mark up.

[...].

You misunderstand. The owner of that machine paid an outside shop (not mine) for some components that I would have fabricated myself if it was going to be my machine. There was no "mark up" on my part at all.

The spindle is air driven, not electric, and the cuemaker already owned that.

TW

 

[TomHay]

There we go, nice responce, understood Thomas.

Leads however to a question. Your posts are very much strong on your feelings, knowledge, lot to be learned from you.

The person who started this thread was by no means a HOF Cue Maker nor do I think he cares to be. Many of the Posters on here are hobbyist, they do it because they love it.

Quite a few even close up during the non season which is the summer here and get 9-5 jobs. They just love it though.

So here is the question. Did you come down on the HOF Cue Maker for not being able to make his own CNC machine?

I understand your points about CNC machines being able to do larger and perhaps better.

Unique and many others make some pretty good stuff and I am quite sure if one would ask and pay they have things that would bring their exhisting equipment at least up another level or two.

I am in my Mid 60's, I want to make some Cues again, not at your level or over 90% the level of most of the posters on here. I am hoping to have more room to do this next year. I however will be buying out of the box and perhaps modifying it a bit with no plans on catching up on the investment.

One of the posters on here (Gary) has been kind enough to have a thread on his building of his own CNC for quite a while. That is a great thread. I enjoy this one as well as Kim showed getting creative.

Its about love of the game, love of taking wood and creating functional art. Some would think a cue very plain while others would kill to own or make the same cue.

One shoe does not fit all feet. 40 Million people a year play pool, the minority of that don't want or can buy a cue that is 10K up. We all do and enjoy what we can and everyone gets different shoes.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...]
So here is the question. Did you come down on the HOF Cue Maker for not being able to make his own CNC machine?

[...]

Again, you misunderstand - or misinterpret - what I wrote. I'm not coming down on ANYONE for not making their own machine(s). I get that not everyone will have the interest, ability, or time to fabricate their own equipment. My points are much simpler:

1) less than 1.5 inches of travel on ANY axis of a CNC machine is a VERY short-sighted design - I don't just use my machines to cut pockets in cues or a few tiny parts from very narrow stock. I use them to build many different things, including intricate jigs for other cuemaking operations. Trying to do these things with a work envelope barely over an inch wide would be like trying to win a high jump competition from a wheelchair.

2) $7k+ is too much to pay for a light duty, job-specific machine unless the the buyer is unable or unwilling to build a much better machine for a lot less money. I have been involved in many, many machine builds - either as the designer, fabricator, or both. Some of those machines are VERY unique (no pun intended) and will do operations that simply can't be done by anything available on the commercial market. 3 of those machines - one of which I own and use - are totally secret in how they work and what they will do, such that virtually no one in the cue industry even knows they exist
(except the owner, myself, and a very few trusted colleagues ) .

Point #1 and point #2 are both opinions, and the last time I looked it was okay around here to express one's opinion. Rick ("scdiveteam") apparently feels it's somehow wrong and rude to express such opinions about something he owns, but the very core of any forum of this nature is that it's okay to say you think something is too expensive and it's okay to say that something is not necessarily the best option.

So as far as I'm concerned Rick can go suck a bug.

TW

 

[scdiveteam]

Hey TW,

I guess you won't be teaching me the secret handshake or giving me one of your secret decoder rings anytime soon.

That's ok.

My post was all about why a business who sells a product needs to cover expenses to make a profit as opposed to a DIY situation and buying parts on the Internet. I and many others place a high value on our time and see value in purchasing tried and true products. When people respond and buy that product the business model is successful. You still can't see that. Markets are always right, it is people that get it wrong. If unique was charging too much money they would not exist. Most people today don't want to change their own oil either.

I was not defending some machine I own as you suggest, I was only defending some good people who run a great company that you wish to disparage without specific familiarity with the attributes of the machine in question. This is a statement you won't quote because all of your gibberish avoided the basis of my specific point of contention.

BTW, the utility of the y axis is expandable on Brian's design because the base is designed to offset for wing cutter use or other custom applications that can be done on the table. Also the x travel on the table is about 24".

I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear the comments of a professional machinist who is familiar with using 5 axis stuff and was to verbally comment on your silly offerings posted here about your secrets. I got news for you TW, I would hear a lot if laughing. There are not any secrets in machining operations using a tabletop format. Only fantasies from one who is very self centered.

Your so full of yourself it is amazing.

JMO,

Rick

 

[JoeyInCali]

I guess you won't be teaching me the secrete handshake or giving me one of your secrete decoder rings anytime soon.

I don't think you'd want his "secrete" handshake.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...]
I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear the comments of a professional machinist who is familiar with using 5 axis stuff and was to verbally comment on your silly offerings posted here about your secrets. I got news for you TW, I would hear a lot if laughing. There are not any secrets in machining operations using a tabletop format. Only fantasies from one who is very self centered.

Your so full of yourself it is amazing.
[...]

Well Rick, you're certainly a fool's fool. The total extent of your knowledge about CNC must apparently be limited to cutting parts, cutting pockets, and turning round/tapered stock. Okay, so that amounts to about maybe 15% - 20% of the operations involved in cuemaking.

However - and of this you have shown yourself to be TRULY ignorant - there are many other operations in cuemaking that can also benefit from the accuracy and repeatability of Computer Numerical Control. In fact, you can't name a single operation, from rough cutting to applying a leather wrap to the finished cue, that can't benefit from involving CNC. And a lot of it is - most of which you absolutely nothing about.

It's been said that ignorance is bliss; I can only assume you are perpetually ecstatic.

TW

 

[Thomas Wayne]

I don't think you'd want his "secrete" handshake.

It's Rick you're talking to Joey. You're going to have to spell it out for him - literally.

TW

 

[scdiveteam]

Well Rick, you're certainly a fool's fool. The total extent of your knowledge about CNC must apparently be limited to cutting parts, cutting pockets, and turning round/tapered stock. Okay, so that amounts to about maybe 15% - 20% of the operations involved in cuemaking.

However - and of this you have shown yourself to be TRULY ignorant - there are many other operations in cuemaking that can also benefit from the accuracy and repeatability of Computer Numerical Control. In fact, you can't name a single operation, from rough cutting to applying a leather wrap to the finished cue, that can't benefit from involving CNC. And a lot of it is - most of which you absolutely nothing about.

It's been said that ignorance is bliss; I can only assume you are perpetually ecstatic.

TW

TW,

I am sorry that you are a mind reader and understand what lurks in the mind of others. Nice trick. Do you really think that people other than yourself can't understand basic things that a mill can do it turn out. Boy are you on cloud nine.

BTW, TW before you can cut a concentric wrap groove on a cue you got to build one that is straight. LOL. I am glad you figured how how to cut a wrap groove on your CNC because all of the wraps I have seen on the TW cues from 10 years ago looked like do do. I am not the only one with inquiring eyes.

You can BS some of the people some of the time but some can see right through your arrogant bravado and rudeness to others. You can call me names all you want I just consider the source.

It not too late for you to change my friend, the first step is to admit you have a problem as a Solipsist. There are other people in this world and not all of them see things through your rosé colored glasses. Judging other people, jumping to conclusions then making statements with no basis or merit is your modus operandi. Just Saying.

JMO

Rick

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...] Do you really think that people other than yourself can't understand basic things that a mill can do it turn out.
[...]
It not too late for you to change my friend, the first step is to admit you have a problem as a Solipsist. [...]

Rick, you are one serious hoot! These two sentences above so clearly define what makes you a laughing stock in the cuemaking community that anything I might add would simply be redundant.

TW

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick, you are one serious hoot! These two sentences above so clearly define what makes you a laughing stock in the cuemaking community that anything I might add would simply be redundant.

TW

I guess you did not get the point, again!

Thats OK, because you think you are the Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler and Solipsist Pooh-bah," who reads minds, knows and sees all as well". Because of that, it was silly of me to imagine you had the capacity to think clearly anyway.

You can project all you wish towards me but being labeled by you, "the self proclaimed spokesman of the cue making community", rolls right off my back because you clearly have the character of an amoeba. And guess what, I am not the only one who sees it that way. :tongue:

Hey......, thats not fair Rick because an amoeba does not have a brain at all. It is simply wrongful to amoebas to be put in his category.

You are correct sir, what was I thinking!

Sorry to any amoebas that I might have offended. :sorry:

JMO,

Rick

 

[Travis Niklich]

Hey TW,

I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear the comments of a professional machinist who is familiar with using 5 axis stuff and was to verbally comment on your silly offerings posted here about your secrets. I got news for you TW, I would hear a lot if laughing. There are not any secrets in machining operations using a tabletop format. Only fantasies from one who is very self centered.

Your so full of yourself it is amazing.

JMO,

Rick

Rick not wanting to get back to our old ways but I have to say.

I have an Associate Degree in Precision Machining Technology I was in school for the past 2 years after leaving my full time job. I have been working the past year as an Adjunct Professor teaching Precision Machining Technology at the place I earned my degree. To date I have taught classes in cnc mill and lathe as well as Solidworks, Blueprint reading, and manual machining.

I also have owned my own shop for over 15 years with the last 8-10 years focusing on learning how to be a better machinist and understanding the use of cnc. I also built my own cnc mill and am working on a cnc lathe.

I have access to 3, 4,and 5 axis HASS cnc machines as well as a HASS Y axis lathe with live tooling everyday of the week.

One of my instructors was a application manager for the local HAAS HFO my boss and coworkers have over 20+ years experience a piece with Mastercam and cnc machining. Not one of them have been any insight or help with 4 or 5 axis machining as it applies to cue making. Most have no idea what it is that cue makers like Thomas Wayne are doing or how to program it.

I have never run across a machinist or parts that ever needed to be machined or produced parts that are on a cylindrical object that must also have another cylindrical part produced to make a press fit (inlay) into the first part.

Maybe there's some machinist somewhere that have a use for the technology that Thomas and a few others use but I have never meet them.

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick not wanting to get back to our old ways but I have to say.

I have an Associate Degree in Precision Machining Technology I was in school for the past 2 years after leaving my full time job. I have been working the past year as an Adjunct Professor teaching Precision Machining Technology at the place I earned my degree. To date I have taught classes in cnc mill and lathe as well as Solidworks, Blueprint reading, and manual machining.

I also have owned my own shop for over 15 years with the last 8-10 years focusing on learning how to be a better machinist and understanding the use of cnc. I also built my own cnc mill and am working on a cnc lathe.

I have access to 3, 4,and 5 axis HASS cnc machines as well as a HASS Y axis lathe with live tooling everyday of the week.

One of my instructors was a application manager for the local HAAS HFO my boss and coworkers have over 20+ years experience a piece with Mastercam and cnc machining. Not one of them have been any insight or help with 4 or 5 axis machining as it applies to cue making. Most have no idea what it is that cue makers like Thomas Wayne are doing or how to program it.

I have never run across a machinist or parts that ever needed to be machined or produced parts that are on a cylindrical object that must also have another cylindrical part produced to make a press fit (inlay) into the first part.

Maybe there's some machinist somewhere that have a use for the technology that Thomas and a few others use but I have never meet them.

Travis,

My good friend is a Professional machinist, teaches CNC classes on occasion and is also familiar with Mill lathe 5 axis 2 spindle. He has programmed parts and pockets using the cylinder method you describe in my shop on my machine. The results were not what he could expect using a Mazak because of the backlash problems from the worm gear set up on my A axis. Blurry is a word I would use to describe it.

That is the reason I told TW that I would refer to his expertise in that area concerning his work and machines he built to produce these types of parts a pockets.

There is no doubt that TW is a great designer and pathfinder in the Cue Making arena. He knows I respect his great talents and is my favorite designer. A great talent indeed. That being said and acknowledged, I don't think that gives him the right to make the kind of judgmental statements and name calling he engages in. But that is also his right to do so.

I am sure he has never touched one of my cues but he makes blanket statement that I don't have a clue as a cue maker or am a hack. I don't lose sleep over that as long as he does not step on my Blue Suede Shoes, LOL. As my dad explained me when I was kid, sticks and stones may break you bones but names will never hurt you. So that is why I tried to end my discussion with him using some levity with the amoeba joke.

The whole point of this on going discussion was about his statement concerning someone else's business and their price point basis to build a custom designed and engineered machine specifically for cue makers. As a HOF type person, statements he makes can have an adverse effect on their sales. It's ok to think what you want but you don't have to convey it here if it can hurt someone's business. No good comes from that. It's just common courtesy. I am pretty sure that he has no experience with Unique's equipment and comparing the notion of DIY to a business that has overhead expenses in just a juvenile type expression of facts concerning a value judgment and very insensitive IMO. His remarks, though they were not breaking forum rules, project the fact that Unique could be price gouging which is not the facts as they truly exist.

Someone looking into buying a CNC for the first time and has no experience might look at his statements and opt to cross Unique of their list concerning a purchase and buying a plug and play CNC. When in my view, it would be the best way to go for them. If you wish to make cues, you and I both know how many thousands of critical details one has to process in order to make a quality cue and there is a ton of trial and error experience curves you must overcome before you can even think about selling one.

Why would anyone on gods green earth want to take on building their own CNC when they have never ran one and don't understand how it even works it at all. I have had my plug and play machine for 6 years now and in the last few years have become proficent in doing 2d pocketing and parts. At this point in my personal journey I and going to build my own machine that will be able to handle radial geometry tool paths with high accuracy. You have crawl before you walk type of thing. When I make the move to a new machine, the great residual value of my Cue Monster will almost completely pay for my new machine. That is where I see TWs point concerning where he see value as DIY.

Until the last few posts I tried my best to express my opinions to TW based on my 40 years of running 5 different businesses. During that time I stayed on topic and tried to take the high road ignoring his name calling and projections towards me personally. In every counterpoint argument he stated, not once did he even make any type of acknowledgment that there is in fact a big difference concerning a price point for the DIY guy compared to running a business and paying tons of expenses to bring a product to market. That in the final analysis that was my only point. And still is.

Brian and Jim at Unique do a great job and have helped a lot of people including myself through exceptional customer service. It is simply unfair and insensitive of TW to be so self centered to put his Ego in front of someone else's legitimate business offerings to such a small market. A very difficult thing to pull off. Things we say can have unintended consequences. TW clearly has blinders on in this area or just does not care at all. I would hope it is the blinders thing.

Thanks for weighing in and the way you did it.

JMO,

Rick

 

[LGSM3]

I built my cnc machine from scratch in my second year of cuemaking. I had zero experience with cnc prior to that and mostly didnt understand any of it. I could visualize what i wanted it to do but didnt know how to make it do it. I figured by building my own machine it would provide an understanding i wouldnt otherwise have if i bought a plug and play machine. I just counted the 4 unfinished cues that had ever been in that machine plus one that a customer has. My all inclusive cnc experience was 5 cues and My COY was the 6th cue that ever touched the machine. I believe my hard work and studies payed dividends.

I would say that Unique does bring alot of value to the table, especially for those without alot of time. I also think they obviously realized the short sided early design and thats why they brought an improvement to market.

PS...most 5 axis machinists are not actually machinists these days, there mostly just kids who can draw in 3d and then let a smart machine do the rest. Cue guys have challenges they could hardly comprehend with some complex designs.

 

[cutter]

Cue guys have challenges they could hardly comprehend with some complex designs.

Sounds like a great Cue Stock topic! :wink:

 

[JoeyInCali]

Why would anyone on gods green earth want to take on building their own CNC when they have never ran one and don't understand how it even works it at all.

Save money? Build a better machine for less .
That's what the loonies at cnczone forum have been doing for years.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/

 

[Thomas Wayne]

As usual Rick you try to turn the topic to different directions and litter your posts with digressions, vaguer innuendo, and half-truths. Quite some time ago I came to realize that there is nothing - literally NOTHING - to be learned from reading anything you write... but occasionally it become necessary to address some of your bullshit, if for no other reason than to make sure some of your misstatements, half-truths, or flat out lies doesn't just float around out there unchallenged.

[...]
I am sure he has never touched one of my cues but he makes blanket statement that I don't have a clue as a cue maker or am a hack.

Quote me. To be clear, I DO think you're a hack, and I DON'T think you have a clue - but I'd like to see you to quote me saying those exact "blanket statement(s)".

The whole point of this on going discussion was about his statement concerning someone else's business and their price point basis to build a custom designed and engineered machine specifically for cue makers. As a HOF type person, statements he makes can have an adverse effect on their sales. It's ok to think what you want but you don't have to convey it here if it can hurt someone's business. No good comes from that.

ALL reviews of ANYTHING run the risk of having an "adverse effect" on someone's sales. I would hope you'd be smart enough to recognize that, as an early adopter and long-time innovator in using CNC for cuemaking, my opinion on such matters might have some value to another up-and-coming cuemaker.

I am pretty sure that he has no experience with Unique's equipment ...

Actually I have a quite a bit of experience with Unique equipment. I've spent a good deal of time helping a long-time friend with his cuemaking, and have witnessed first hand his struggles (and mine ) with trying to utilize his Unique machine. You wouldn't know any of this, but as usual that doesn't stop you from pontificating profusely from your base of ignorance.

Someone looking into buying a CNC for the first time and has no experience might look at his statements and opt to cross Unique of their list concerning a purchase [...]

Yes, and if that purchase would be a machine that has an X-axis limit of ~1 1/2 inches then I am doing them a great favor alerting them to the utter foolishness of investing a lot money in such a limited device.

Why would anyone on gods green earth want to take on building their own CNC when they have never ran one and don't understand how it even works it at all.

Why would anyone on God's green earth want to take beginner Spanish classes when they aren't Mexican and have never spoken the language before? I know VOLUMES more about CNC than you do, Rick, and that's becasue I DID start from a do-it-yourself platform. And these days, with multiple CNC forums and TONS of available parts (new and used) in the marketplace, the real question is why would anyone not want to take the opportunity to save money and learn so much more about CNC by entering the DIY CNC community?

When I make the move to a new machine, the great residual value of my Cue Monster will almost completely pay for my new machine.

There it is. Right there. Your entire "outrage" that I would dare to denigrate a CNC machine with a such limitations is really motivated by your hope of getting top dollar from a machine you KNOW is not suitable for the kind of work you want to do. You're simply trying to keep the market for your used machine high enough to get a good price when you move on. AS you said earlier, shame on you..

During that time I stayed on topic and tried to take the high road ignoring his name calling and projections towards me personally.

REALLY? Let's just see if that's true...

“...comparing that endeavor to what Unique Products does is just plain ...”

“...shows your lack of understanding”

“... looks and smells like sour grapes.”

“... your silly offerings posted here.”

“... fantasies from one who is very self centered.”

“... all of the wraps I have seen on the TW cues from 10 years ago looked like do do.”

“... you have a problem as a Solipsist”

“... you are the Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler and Solipsist Pooh-bah.”

“... you clearly have the character of an amoeba.”

Damn, Rick... that "high road" seems awfully muddy.

TW clearly has blinders on in this area or just does not care at all. I would hope it is the blinders thing.
[...]

If I did not care I wouldn't post a thing. I DO care - I don't want to see any cuemaker, experienced or otherwise, invest a bunch of money into a CNC machine that will severely limit their efforts and require ridiculous work-arounds to accomplish even the most simple of tasks. It's just too easy these days to do much better for much less expense. There's nothing in this for me at all, Rick. I'm not building and/or selling machinery, I'm not offering lessons, and I'm not grinding an ax here. My only motivation is to prevent future CNC users from going down the wrong path out of ignorance.

If someone on this forum wants to buy your used machine for a high price so you can finance a DIY better one then more power to them, But at least now they may be going into that transaction from a more informed viewpoint.

And now we also know the basis of your "outrage" - clearly motivated by your hopes of getting the highest price possible for your old machine so you can finance your new one.

TW

 

[scdiveteam]

As usual Rick you try to turn the topic to different directions and litter your posts with digressions, vaguer innuendo, and half-truths. Quite some time ago I came to realize that there is nothing - literally NOTHING - to be learned from reading anything you write... but occasionally it become necessary to address some of your bullshit, if for no other reason than to make sure some of your misstatements, half-truths, or flat out lies doesn't just float around out there unchallenged.



Quote me. To be clear, I DO think you're a hack, and I DON'T think you have a clue - but I'd like to see you to quote me saying those exact "blanket statement(s)".



ALL reviews of ANYTHING run the risk of having an "adverse effect" on someone's sales. I would hope you'd be smart enough to recognize that, as an early adopter and long-time innovator in using CNC for cuemaking, my opinion on such matters might have some value to another up-and-coming cuemaker.



Actually I have a quite a bit of experience with Unique equipment. I've spent a good deal of time helping a long-time friend with his cuemaking, and have witnessed first hand his struggles (and mine ) with trying to utilize his Unique machine. You wouldn't know any of this, but as usual that doesn't stop you from pontificating profusely from your base of ignorance.




Yes, and if that purchase would be a machine that has an X-axis limit of ~1 1/2 inches then I am doing them a great favor alerting them to the utter foolishness of investing a lot money in such a limited device.




Why would anyone on God's green earth want to take beginner Spanish classes when they aren't Mexican and have never spoken the language before? I know VOLUMES more about CNC than you do, Rick, and that's becasue I DID start from a do-it-yourself platform. And these days, with multiple CNC forums and TONS of available parts (new and used) in the marketplace, the real question is why would anyone not want to take the opportunity to save money and learn so much more about CNC by entering the DIY CNC community?




There it is. Right there. Your entire "outrage" that I would dare to denigrate a CNC machine with a such limitations is really motivated by your hope of getting top dollar from a machine you KNOW is not suitable for the kind of work you want to do. You're simply trying to keep the market for your used machine high enough to get a good price when you move on. AS you said earlier, shame on you..



REALLY? Let's just see if that's true...



Damn, Rick... that "high road" seems awfully muddy.




If I did not care I wouldn't post a thing. I DO care - I don't want to see any cuemaker, experienced or otherwise, invest a bunch of money into a CNC machine that will severely limit their efforts and require ridiculous work-arounds to accomplish even the most simple of tasks. It's just too easy these days to do much better for much less expense. There's nothing in this for me at all, Rick. I'm not building and/or selling machinery, I'm not offering lessons, and I'm not grinding an ax here. My only motivation is to prevent future CNC users from going down the wrong path out of ignorance.

If someone on this forum wants to buy your used machine for a high price so you can finance a DIY better one then more power to them, But at least now they may be going into that transaction from a more informed viewpoint.

And now we also know the basis of your "outrage" - clearly motivated by your hopes of getting the highest price possible for your old machine so you can finance your new one.

TW

TW,

The last thing that motivates me is what I get for used equipment so you got that wrong. Again your mind reading. My point was that these machines have a very good residual value in the used market which speaks well for Unique. How do i know that? I know people who have bought them used. I bought mine brand new. BTW, before I sell a machine I would have a new one up and running for a very long time first because i have orders to fill. I understand about infant mortality and reliability concerning equipment. I am also not a finance type of guy as you suggest. Cash and carry or don't buy something is my way. After pondering this issue, to be honest with you, I don't think I would sell my current machine because having a back up utility makes sense to me. I only stated the numbers because I was acknowledging your observations concerning DIY costs. A business could never compete with DIY numbers because of overhead was my point.

I don't spin shafts or butts on my CNC and it is dedicated for inlay work only, so will experiment and remove the gear mechanics from this machine and mount the A stepper motor directly by installing an alignment billet bracket. I am sure if I remove that gear back lash, my Radial geometry programs will produce very accurate results. Will try that and see what happens. I was a millwright mechanic for over 30 years by trade and the notion of modification of this machine poses no challenge to me at all, nor does the thought of building a CNC from component parts now that I understand how they work and how to run them.

Unlike Jake who jumped in with both feet and built his machine from jump street, I chose a path whereby I bought a machine and then learned to operate the Cad / Cam and produce work on the machine. I would think that 99% of CMs that get into this would go the way I went and thats is why these machines are so darn popular. Also knowing of Jake, he is that 1% type of guy and the exception to the rule. Most people would be totally satisfied just doing 2d pocketing and parts forever as a goal. Not all reach for the highest apple on the tree as was your individual history also.

You keep bringing up the wrap around issue but Kim clearly stated that the recess area for the lead screw was found to be clogged with debris limiting his y envelope and he simply had a maintenance cleaning issue. If you missed that post and detail I could see your disdain for a table that can't cut a silver ring for a butt without a wrap around. That clearly is not a issue with Brian's design. Kim is now getting +1.4 y. By 20" or so of x table foot print. As I said before, I personally never needed more than .800 y for cutting a 2D part and maybe just under 1" for butt sleeve windows so I really don't see +1.4 as being a negative when nesting parts or pocketing the cue. Having a lager table gives you more utility I understand that but it is personally not burdensome to me. These are just my views and there are not any underlining motivations other that speaking truth as a review for other forum members to take or leave as they will.

For example, last night I cut over 80 parts to Z -.110 on a 1.200 x 6" slab and it took 59 minutes. If someone is not doing multiple production cues and needs to make a huge amount of parts, how much time does it take to mount another slab and align the orientation to the machine coordinates? Two minutes, so where is that a limitation. We're really splitting hairs here aren't we.

So there it is.

Rick

 

[Thomas Wayne]

TW,

The last thing that motivates me is what I get for used equipment so you got that wrong. Again your mind reading. [...]

See, Rick, that's the problem with lying - you have to remember what you said, because it's not true so you can't rely on having actually experienced it. Just barely 5 hours ago you wrote:

[...] At this point in my personal journey I and going to build my own machine that will be able to handle radial geometry tool paths with high accuracy. You have crawl before you walk type of thing. When I make the move to a new machine, the great residual value of my Cue Monster will almost completely pay for my new machine. [...'

But NOW you claim the amount of money you get for your older, less suitable machine is of no concern. You can't have it both ways; you've obviously been planning and calculating on selling your old machine for as much as you can get so it will pay for your new machine (YOUR words), but you now say selling price is not important.

So I just have one question: were you lying then or are you lying now?

TW