help me get a clue

[wigglybridge]

last month i finally got my table set up again; it's very tight quarters, have to use a short stick if i'm on the rail, but that's actually a Real good reminder of what Steve Matthieu told me, that i was always leaving the cue ball on the rail, so now i'm doing that a lot less.

after a few weeks of shakedown, i also got some semblance of a stroke, and in fact, my shooting accuracy is far better than it ever has been. the same, unfortunately, cannot be said for my brains. and that's where i'm hoping y'all will help out. so here are 2 runs i got on video from a series that always end around 28 -- not that there's anything special about that number...

i'm interested in any comment, but especially ones that are generic: "you always do x", or "you consistently don't notice y".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZEBdnVd6Fc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IbmLuaIQO0

thanks for looking!

mills

 

[sjm]

You sometimes run into balls when it is unnecessary. This can bring some bad outcomes into play. Once the balls are spread out, you should strive to minimize moving balls around unless a) you have no choice, or b) you need to improve the position of one or more balls.

 

[wigglybridge]

thank you, Stu! i'll work on that -- along with general cue ball control, which is still a weak point...

 

[JohnnyP]

Good eye, straight stroke. I don't see anything mechanically wrong, just your shot selection.

About six minutes into the first clip, you drew into the balls. They were already separated and you ended up stuck. You made a good shot up table, then shot the seven and slid out of shape. Maybe you should have drawn softly off the ten instead, you could have gotten shape on three or four balls at once.

 

[wigglybridge]

thanks, Johnny. actually the only one of those balls that had a pocket was the 5; not sure now why i Didn't slide up for it at that moment, but i certainly thought of it and looked at it, so maybe there was a reason. maybe it was tight and i was pretty close and going across the line? but that doesn't make sense, obviously i could've spun forward off the rail. maybe it was because even if i got on the 5, i couldn't see a good path after that. anyway, going into the balls at that point seemed the best bet. i was actually trying to pull back into the 9 and shoot the 5 next, obviously didn't execute, so i got lucky to have that ball up table.

also it sure looks like i could've shot the 4 at 6:20, bumped the 13, and had any one of 3 shots. looks from the video like i didn't even glance at it, and it was sure easier than the path i took.

i think you're right about that up-table 10; looking at the video, i can't understand why i didn't draw off it to get straighter on the ball i shot. i was pretty determined to get that 4 ball outta there asap, because then everything went in a path i was sure i could execute. but that 10 needed to go anyway, so i should've taken it then.

 

[alstl]

I hesitate to critique other people because I'm not that good myself.

I only watched the first rack. Instead of going into the ball at 6 minutes the way you did I would have played for the 11 in the side with the intention of using either the 3 or 5 to get an angle on the 2 to go into the balls with 15 as insurance. The way you did it you didn't have an insurance ball.

On your shot to get on the key ball I would have hit it harder to get the cue ball closer to the key ball. You left yourself a tougher shot than you needed to.

On your break ball, I liked some advice I heard from Danny Harriman once. Don't take your eye off the object ball on the break shot. Don't be distracted by the stack being there.

 

[14-1StraightMan]

Watched your first video...... Great table with a ball return!.... from what I see, you are shooting well but need to work on a few things.
Pay attention into the way that you send the cue ball into clusters/bumping balls.
At 42 sec. you shot the 14 ball into the lower right corner bumping the 7 & 8 ball. You pushed the 7 ball all the way over to the right rail. By going into the 7 & 8 softer, the 7 ball would of rolled into a good break shot position and you had a side pocket ball (I believe it was the 1 ball) as a very good key ball for the 7 if it would of been in the proper place. You also had the two balls that were insurance balls to the lower left corner after you would of went into the 7 & 8 softly. Instead you shot the ball in the side.
The second thing, be careful about going into the stack from the bottom rail. (6:10) I find that the cue ball gets stuck a lot more that way. It looked like the 3,7 & 15 were open by playing the cue ball off the right side rail after shooting that ball (14) in the lower right corner. It is easier to get on top of the rack to break up clusters.
Your run ended b/c you used the wrong English on the12 ball (8:54) it put the cue ball on the rail leading to hard shots and finally a hard break shot. Over all, like I said. You play well and just like myself, we are all learning everyday.

 

[wigglybridge]

thanks, Mike!

you're right about that shot at 0:42 -- i had just tied those 2 balls up 2 shots before, trying to bump the 3 up for a break ball, and then when i got on that 14 i got too excited, thinking "yay, i can fix that Right Now" and didn't even think of anything else but separating them. <facepalm>.

i see what you mean about the english at 8:54 -- the conventional way would've been outside english to come around in line for the up-table ball. i was worried about getting too straight on that ball and then having a tough long cut on the 9, so i was intending to get just a little lower than i did on the 9 instead, thinking i'd shoot that first and Then be going into a good line on the up-table ball.

obviously, it didn't work, and i ended up Dead Straight on Both Balls! hence all the dithering at that point about what to do. i probably went wrong with my pattern much earlier, so i shouldn't have been in that spot to begin with!

then, as you said, i executed a couple of shots at the edge of my ability, but the break shot really wasn't that hard; i just dogged it, you can see me flinch and jump, so of course i missed it by a half a diamond!

 

[Dan White]

Hi Bob. I'll give you my 2 cents. Of course you shoot nice and smoothly, pocketing balls well. Your pace of play seems good, too, but that's not why you posted these videos, I know. You want to hear about areas for improvement.

General impression - Your position play needs a little improvement if you want to make more consistent high runs. I get the overall impression that much of your time looking at your next shot is figuring out what to do next because the cue ball is not where you wanted it to be. If the cue ball goes where you expect, then your next shot should be pretty much automatic. It feels a little more labored than that.

Example: at just before 9:00 you shoot the 12 in the corner and end up on the rail. Getting position on the 9 should be automatic. You might consider practicing position off the bottom rail.

The other general impression I get is that you are not always making the best strategy choice. I should put in the disclaimer that I am not at the table seeing what you see and there is often more than one correct choice, but I do think what I say still holds true.

Example: at 2:44 you are into your final sequence for setting up for a break shot. I much prefer shooting 9 - 3 - 6. You shot the 6 first and were lucky not to have scratched. The 6 and 9 look equal in terms of difficulty, and the 9 - 3 - 6 sequence gives you essentially 2 out of 3 stop shots. Also, as you noted yourself, after you drew into the pack, you had the 4 ball right there at the angle needed to bump the 13 and open up that cluster.

I have a suggestion for strategy play. It's just something I came up with, I don't know if is is a tool recommended by anyone. Devote a session to strategy play. After each ball pocketed, look at EVERY BALL on the table and ask a question: "Can I pocket this ball, and if I can what will my next shot be"? Take your time answering the question, and even go as far as to consider how many different balls you can get position on if you shoot a particular shot. It sounds a little silly, but the ideas is to force yourself to consider ALL options before doing anything. In your replies above I've seen you say several times that you didn't see this or that or you're not sure why you didn't just do this, and so on. The exercise above would have forced you to see that 4 ball in the side pocket. Also, it would have caused you to consider going 14 - 15 in the side at 6:00 in the video. That would be an easy way to pick your way around the cluster from the outside, eventually going into them with the 2 (12 ball safety valve). Even Jim Rempe says he reevaluates his options after every shot. He will always go to Plan B if Plan A didn't work out, or if he has a better opportunity based on where his cue ball actually came to rest.

That's about all I've got. Good to see you've got a table set up and are back at it!

 

[wigglybridge]

Hi Dan -- thank you so much for your comments! some good food for thought there.

position play: yes, definitely now my weak point, finally having got shot-making under control. i have to admit to never having done a position drill. ever. guess i should fix that? i've heard of a few classics, like the L-drill, but are there any that you'd particularly suggest?

of course you're right at 2:44, 9-3-6 is the correct pattern. for some reason i was scared of the 9, and the 6 was straighter. then i misjudged the shot and caromed off the 6. yuck. i guess i need to start trusting my shot making now; it's hard after 4 years of never knowing if i'm going to make the next ball, so i often opt for the safe shot rather than the right one...

i like that strategy play session idea! definitely will try that my next time at the table!

thanks again for the thoughtful reply.

 

[Dan White]

position play: yes, definitely now my weak point, finally having got shot-making under control. i have to admit to never having done a position drill. ever. guess i should fix that? i've heard of a few classics, like the L-drill, but are there any that you'd particularly suggest?

Any drill you can think up, and that you can't do initially, will improve your game. If you want to look into coming off the foot rail, this drill will definitely challenge you. Rempe showed it to me. The idea is to set up the balls as shown with hole reinforcers, ob about one ball diameter off the rail. The drill is to send the cue ball down a path to each diamond. If you get a feel for this, then when there is a cluster in the rack area, or a ball you want to avoid, then you have a frame of reference to fall back on. I use a bit of a different method to achieve this, but that's a longer story. (ignore the 9 ball in the photo, dunno how that got there!).

The second picture is the old Mosconi draw drill. I like this one because it will reveal flaws in your stroke. The goal is to pocket each ball and draw back at a slight angle to pocket the next ball. If you can set up 6 balls as shown and do this drill 5 times in a row, then you've got it. So this drill isn't just about learning how to draw with control. You won't be able to do it unless you learn how to fix flaws in your draw stroke. It's kind of a 2 for 1 drill -- you learn draw position play, and you fix your stroke. Oh, and you alternate left to right, right to left each time you set them up.

There are a million things you can do. I suggest taking stock and finding out what you are worst at position-wise, then work on making that a strength.

 

[wigglybridge]

many thanks, Dan! i'm finding both drills very challenging -- and very educational.

the first one surprised me in many ways, and i learned more in the first 5 minutes of doing it than i probably have in the past 5 years. i now understand why Steve (sparkle84) was suggesting it to me a while back. sometimes you just have to be at the right point to be able to listen to good advice, i guess!

the 2nd one i tried at first as the diagram shows, with 7 balls, and it was instantly humbling. i'm really hoping that the text you wrote is right and it's for 6 balls, because 7 is certainly impossible for me. 6 is tough enough. so later today i'll try again with 6. i'm curious to learn what "flaws in your draw stroke", as opposed to general stroke flaws, might be?

thanks again; this is immediately feeling very productive!

 

[Dan White]

i'm curious to learn what "flaws in your draw stroke", as opposed to general stroke flaws, might be?

thanks again; this is immediately feeling very productive!

Excellent! To me this kind of discovery is what makes the game worth playing. It isn't all about running 1000 balls and everything else is just work to get you there.

To me a draw stroke is just another kind of stroke, but it is different than a follow stroke. You have a little different motion and cue angle on a draw shot. Some people tense up and tighten their fingers, which isn't good. Here's an example of a flaw in your draw stroke (or just call it stroke if you want). Put the object ball 24 inches from the cue ball. Try to pocket the ball and draw the cue ball back so that it hits your cue tip. In other words, try to draw back to the exact starting point of the cue ball. If the cue ball keeps sliding back to the left or right, then you have a flaw in your stroke/aim something.

 

[wigglybridge]

w00t!!!

after a few hours' more drills, took a long break to walk into town to get groceries (my car's subframe just died...), made supper, then came back and ran a Very clean 35+ (i was practicing without thought of runs, don't remember how many there were before the first full rack). got left tough after a secondary break, jacked up over a ball with a table-length straight shot.

i don't know whose body this is, but i think i'm gonna like doing position drills!

 

[Dan White]

w00t!!!

after a few hours' more drills, took a long break to walk into town to get groceries (my car's subframe just died...), made supper, then came back and ran a Very clean 35+ (i was practicing without thought of runs, don't remember how many there were before the first full rack). got left tough after a secondary break, jacked up over a ball with a table-length straight shot.

i don't know whose body this is, but i think i'm gonna like doing position drills!

Excellent!!

Were you doing anything differently on this run compared to your normal method of play, or was it just a matter of better cue ball control?

 

[wigglybridge]

ok, this will be shorter than the previous TWO f**king takes that this POS forum s/w gobbled...

nothing different. it was clear to me while shooting that the entire difference was from improved position. oddly, though, my potting accuracy was improved as a side effect, because i realized doing the drills that all the english in the world didn't mean squat if i didn't pocket the ball accurately. so i was hugely more focused, or as Mark Wilson might say, less "sloppy and general".

it was a revelation being able to send the cue ball off a cushion and through gaps that i'd never have considered before. the whole thing seemed effortless compared to my previous struggles.

just back from a long work day, only had time today for an hour, so i spent it on drills. can't wait to get back at it though!

thanks again for the kick in the pants.

 

[Bob Jewett]

ok, this will be shorter than the previous TWO f**king takes that this POS forum s/w gobbled...
...

It is too late to help you but usually when that happens to me "Back" on the browser will take me back to the editing page and the text is still there. If I'm paranoid I'll cut and paste it into an editor window and then try reposting.

 

[wigglybridge]

thanks, Bob. did that. wasn't there. maybe browser specific (i'm generally on Safari).

i usually am even More paranoid, and copy my text before even trying to post it the first time on this forum, but in this instance was tired and forgot. twice. duh.

 

[sparkle84]

i'm interested in any comment, but especially ones that are generic: "you always do x", or "you consistently don't notice y".


mills

Hi Bob. Seems like you're moving the CB better with less speed which is a sure sign of an improving stroke.

I could answer your above question but I won't because in my opinion it's not the main problem. More important is your thought process. Working on that will lead you to not doing some of the things you shouldn't be doing and point you in the direction of noticing and doing the things you should. An ancillary yet strongly related problem is that many times you do recognize the correct way to go, but don't.
In this and other posts you've stated "yes, I thought about doing that, but......" My immediate suggestion would be that when you have those thoughts, act on them even if you're not comfortable with the shot or position.

A small but good example was the 9,3,6 situation that Dan mentioned. You saw it, knew it was the right way to go, and then shot the 6 instead. Continuing to do that is thwarting improvement. This is practice. It's not just a time to hone your skills but the time to try new things and add more tools to your box.
I'm 100% convinced you knew the 9 was the right shot. You've faced many other situations where you knew what to do and turned around and picked a weaker option.
Lack of confidence? Maybe at times. We all suffer from that. The thing about it is that you can't just conjure up confidence through sheer force of will.
Confidence is acquired by doing something successfully enough times that it becomes embedded in our subconsious.

Not bashing here. You're going through a stage every 14.1 player goes through. Every time you're fairly certain choice A is the best way to go you have to take it. Choice B or C justs keeps you tredding water. Sometimes what you thought was best will turn out not to be. Well, that will get filed in your memory bank for next time.

You're getting there. Making a bunch of small mistakes but are adjusting and working through the racks. That's normal. Then the occasional big one which makes recovery very difficult. These invariably have to do with shot selection. In that 1st clip your run ended primarily because you didn't remove the 10 ball up table earlier in the rack even though you had 2 excellent opportunities to do so. Take a look at the table with 5 or 6 balls left. If the 10 was gone it's a cakewalk getting good on the BS.

Well hopefully we'll get together soon and work on stuff. Let me know.

 

[Ratta]

Watched your first video...... Great table with a ball return!.... from what I see, you are shooting well but need to work on a few things.
Pay attention into the way that you send the cue ball into clusters/bumping balls.
At 42 sec. you shot the 14 ball into the lower right corner bumping the 7 & 8 ball. You pushed the 7 ball all the way over to the right rail. By going into the 7 & 8 softer, the 7 ball would of rolled into a good break shot position and you had a side pocket ball (I believe it was the 1 ball) as a very good key ball for the 7 if it would of been in the proper place. You also had the two balls that were insurance balls to the lower left corner after you would of went into the 7 & 8 softly. Instead you shot the ball in the side.
The second thing, be careful about going into the stack from the bottom rail. (6:10) I find that the cue ball gets stuck a lot more that way. It looked like the 3,7 & 15 were open by playing the cue ball off the right side rail after shooting that ball (14) in the lower right corner. It is easier to get on top of the rack to break up clusters.
Your run ended b/c you used the wrong English on the12 ball (8:54) it put the cue ball on the rail leading to hard shots and finally a hard break shot. Over all, like I said. You play well and just like myself, we are all learning everyday.

tap tap tap !
well stated from a knowledged strong 100+ Ball RUNNER!