Is the U.S. Open 9-Ball Tournament tougher today because of Worldwide competition?

[one stroke]

Excellence is not measured in titles alone. If so then Bustamante is a hack compared to some others.

The problem comes when people want to use a lack of titles to run a player down. That's just not a fair comparison.

Winning titles is a combination of skill AND luck. Many factors contribute to winning ANY tournament and in any tournament there are generally many times where the ultimate winner could have been eliminated but for a few fortunate rolls here and there.

What does "gambling" have to do with it? Well for one thing the race to 100 format isn't gambling in the "hustling" sense. it's more like a boxing match. In the old old days World Titles were won this way and at one point iirc if any world champion refused a head's up match for the world title then they would automatically lose it. Most of Mosconi's titles were won in head to head matches.

The great Willie Hoppe traveled to France to play a long billiards match with Andre "the Lion" Gaganeux. A match which was front page page news for three days with furious betting on both sides. It was this match which propelled Willie Hoppe to worldwide fame after he won it.

I personally think that the heads up match is the ultimate test between two individuals. As Tracy Joe Salazar said to me, in the old days you went after a player and if he beat you then you regrouped and tried again and you kept trying until you could beat him, no one and done and run. To me a race to 100 pretty much settles the question between two players as to who is better and if they complete one and still aren't sure then they should go again.

Being willing to step into the box one-on-one against any other living human is something to be admired. Titles are great and I agree that every player wants them. Anyone willing to go head to head against title holders though is someone to be respected not only for their skill but also for their guts.

Sorry but it simply only tells who's better those 3 days ,, I don't think anyone walked away thinking Earl was a better player after he thumped Shane into Submission ,,Shane was clearly rattled and never caught a gear ,, it happens , why did it happen that time , because he was out of his element ,, all the other 100 races have been on his home table sorta speak .. Let's see him in a pit a Black Pool , or in Tiwann loaded with gamblers ..

1

 

[Jaden]

That's ridiculous...

Not sure what gambling has to do with any of this. Excellence is measured in titles, and titles alone are what get you into the hall of fame.

Arnold Palmer never won the PGA Championship, and he was, quite obviously, a better golfer than nearly everybody that ever did. Still, it's a missing piece on his competitive resume, and, in interviews, he has expressed regrets about having missed out on the career grand slam. The great ones want to win all the biggest titles, and I'm sure Shane is no different. He might just do it, too.

PS Shane has lost his last three ten ball battles with Ko Pin Yi, the reigning WPA Japan Open champion, once gambling, once in an exhibition race to 25, and once in the CSI 10-ball tournament.

excellence in tournaments is measured in titles. Excellence in tournaments overseas is measured in titles overseas.

Pool Excellence is about playing the game the best. It could be for 100K or for bagels with cream cheese.

I'm not of the mind of Fast Eddie where pool excellence is not about excellent pool but about the guy with the most... Well if that were the case, then Shane would be hands down the best in the world no question, because he's made the most every year for several years...but like I said, I'm not of that mindset...

I'm of the mind that the best player is the best and Shane is the best regardless of titles, regardless of money made.

Jaden

 

[leto1776]

I think what people forget in threads like this is the pattern of Shanatics (Shane fanatics) every time he wins or loses a big tournament.
Shane wins: "He's the best ever! No one can stop him! Best in the world!"
Shane loses: "Buckets! Short races! Jet lag! Blah blah blah! He'd win if it was 10-ball race to 100 for the cheese!" (And seriously, who under age 60 still refers to money as the cheese?)

Many of the people who bring up Shane's lack of wins overseas actually like him, and like watching him play. We simply can't stand the people who call him the best in the world when he wins, only to make up crappy excuses when he loses. It's not Shane we hate, it's his borderline retarded excuse makers.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Overall the game is much easier in this day and age than it was 20+ years ago

"Measel" cue balls make the game easier

"Jump Cues" makes the game easier

"Break Cues" makes the game easier

"Rack Your Own Balls" makes the game easier

"One Foul Rules" makes the game much, much easier

"Kicking" has skill, but is 30-50% luck (any player that "kicks" a ball in would not bet they could do it again unless the ball is very close to the pocket)

"Fast Cloth" makes the game easier

Overall the game is much easier in this day and age than it was 20+ years ago. Real gamblers would NEVER play "one foul" rules.....they would simply say "I'm not kicking for my money"

Let's all face it, the "one foul" rules were never designed to make the game better, they were only put in to speed up the tournaments and level the "playing field"......other games/sports take great pride in maintaining the integrity of their game/sport - pool on the other hand allowed promoters to make up whatever rules they choose, allow any equipment they choose AND make the races as short as possible to assist in getting bigger fields.

The game of pool is a severely diluted form of it's self and as long as "one foul" rules stay in place the game will never be a great TV Game......this is the facts, and it's obviious to anyone that has ever seen the game of pool played as it was intended.

'The Game is the Teacher'

Do you think that the Worldwide competition,and the evolution of the game to include Kicking and Jumping,made it harder to win today?

 

[Jaden]

It's only the haters coming in that bring out the defenders.

I think what people forget in threads like this is the pattern of Shanatics (Shane fanatics) every time he wins or loses a big tournament.
Shane wins: "He's the best ever! No one can stop him! Best in the world!"
Shane loses: "Buckets! Short races! Jet lag! Blah blah blah! He'd win if it was 10-ball race to 100 for the cheese!" (And seriously, who under age 60 still refers to money as the cheese?)

Many of the people who bring up Shane's lack of wins overseas actually like him, and like watching him play. We simply can't stand the people who call him the best in the world when he wins, only to make up crappy excuses when he loses. It's not Shane we hate, it's his borderline retarded excuse makers.

Sorry, any time Shane wins the haters come out of the woodwork....

Then when people point out what all he has accomplished that make him the best player and say why he won, the haters then respond with "bbut but but overseas, long races with less anomalies don't count...blah blah blah..."

It's only then that people bring up his dominance in long races, etc...

So get out of here with that shit, if people really weren't just Shane haters, why don't they just say, hey great win, unprecedented, nice... Hope you continue doing good...

No, instead we get, CHEATER CHEATER pumpkin eater...

I don't even think that they'e Shane haters, they're America haters and can't stand that America has bred the best pool player on the planet right now even with our shitty payouts and pro pool conditions here.

Jaden

 

[leto1776]

Sorry, any time Shane wins the haters come out of the woodwork....

Then when people point out what all he has accomplished that make him the best player and say why he won, the haters then respond with "bbut but but overseas, long races with less anomalies don't count...blah blah blah..."

It's only then that people bring up his dominance in long races, etc...

So get out of here with that shit, if people really weren't just Shane haters, why don't they just say, hey great win, unprecedented, nice... Hope you continue doing good...

No, instead we get, CHEATER CHEATER pumpkin eater...

I don't even think that they'e Shane haters, they're America haters and can't stand that America has bred the best pool player on the planet right now even with our shitty payouts and pro pool conditions here.

Jaden

Right. It must all be blind hatred towards America.

 

[Jaden]

I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt...

Right. It must all be blind hatred towards America.

I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt on being Shane haters, but hey if you just think they hate on Shane, then whatever you want buddy...

Jaden

 

[BeiberLvr]

blah, blah, blah... One foul sucks...blah, blah, blah...

I imagine anyone that watched the Hall/Boyes match on Friday or Shane/Dennis match on Saturday would disagree that one foul doesn't provide great entertainment. Well for the pool lovers at least. It'll take more than a change of rules to get the non-pool lovers involved.

By the way, how's that reality show coming along?

 

[markgw]

if anyone here believe that shane is like Earl or better then he must put Shane in a money game at Taiwan ,Philippines or Japan with his pocket or backer money to see what and who grap the cheese!!!!!

Shane has offered anyone in the world to play 10 ball for 50 k. So he's not afraid of anyone. You have the right to be a Shane hater but I think his record speaks for itself. His top 5 finishes in the last Japan isn't winning but hardly struggling. It's only a matter of time that he starts winning overseas. Your hater comments will not affect his 4 US Open 9 Ball wins and future induction into the hall of fame. I think Shane is happy.

 

[sjm]

His top 5 finishes in the last Japan isn't winning but hardly struggling. It's only a matter of time that he starts winning overseas. .

Darn right, sir! I can't fathom why people don't get this. The guy is 31, for pete's sake.

 

[ScottyDzntKnow]

Sorry but it simply only tells who's better those 3 days ,, I don't think anyone walked away thinking Earl was a better player after he thumped Shane into Submission ,,Shane was clearly rattled and never caught a gear ,, it happens , why did it happen that time , because he was out of his element ,, all the other 100 races have been on his home table sorta speak .. Let's see him in a pit a Black Pool , or in Tiwann loaded with gamblers ..

1

He beat shane on a 10ft, it was a little more in earls wheelhouse at the time.