Pool solutions - from golf's predicament??
- Thread starter Mark Griffin
- Start date
After School Clubs and Pool Clubs
I haven't seen the clip yet but I remember that as a youth I enjoyed competition......that hasn't changed.
I know we aren't like to start many programs "In High Schools" but what about after school clubs?
It an idea that I think has merit. It involves starting the younger generation on something they might not otherwise do because of the smart phone, computer etc. etc.
However once you get these kids in your place having competition between each other or as doubles or as teams or in a Round Robin Format where everyone plays everyone and you give out a cue or something at the end of the series.
What you have done is put action into play.
They will practice, they will bring friends, they will laugh and have a good time. You don't have to charge them 4 dollars an hour to play when they come to practice. This could be about sowing seeds and watching them grow.
Maybe we wont have Private Clubs anytime soon but it doesn't mean we cant find the next best thing........Clubs....After School Clubs.....
Pool Club just like a Chess Club and invite new groups to come in and play....for free.
What do you lose?
I haven't seen the clip yet but I remember that as a youth I enjoyed competition......that hasn't changed.
I know we aren't like to start many programs "In High Schools" but what about after school clubs?
It an idea that I think has merit. It involves starting the younger generation on something they might not otherwise do because of the smart phone, computer etc. etc.
However once you get these kids in your place having competition between each other or as doubles or as teams or in a Round Robin Format where everyone plays everyone and you give out a cue or something at the end of the series.
What you have done is put action into play.
They will practice, they will bring friends, they will laugh and have a good time. You don't have to charge them 4 dollars an hour to play when they come to practice. This could be about sowing seeds and watching them grow.
Maybe we wont have Private Clubs anytime soon but it doesn't mean we cant find the next best thing........Clubs....After School Clubs.....
Pool Club just like a Chess Club and invite new groups to come in and play....for free.
What do you lose?
The ball in hand speeds up the game, creates huge consequences to fouls, and adds great drama to the sport.
The other night I watched a dvd of the 1966 14.1 us open between Irving crane and Joe balsis. It's a great match if you're a pool aficionado. But never would work today with our society.
As I'm typing this from my phone, my kids are watching cartoon network. The amount of jump cuts (quick edits) reach into thirty a minute for a commercial. That's 120 images a minute. At times there are seven edits in a single second. And it translates right into the grown up networks (just watch espn sportscenter or a cable news network) our sensories are bombarded with lightning fast edits of images and sounds, creating an attention span decline that is subliminal.
1966 in the theaters was "the good, the bad, and the ugly" I love this movie, and so did audiences back then. The first 10.5 minutes has zero dialogue. The opening static shot is over 15 seconds long. Audiences today would never handle that. It would be dubbed a commercial failure with its 3+ hour running time alone and never get sneezed at by a major studio.
Like it or not, our society and mentalities have changed. If you want to hear a song, don't go get cd or listen to radio for an hour to hear it, just click on YouTube and it's on. Instant gratification. So the sport that's pays dividends in the least amount of time get the viewers. And even more so get a playing audience.
So my vote is go with more ball in hands. Fifteen ball rotation with ball in hand each turn at the table. Eight ball, ball in hand each turn at table.
All skill sports will be on decline as long as our societys attention span is doing the same.
Just my two cents. Or maybe four cents on this one.
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it's like the frog that's boiled by slowly turning up the heat.
I appreciate your opinion, however, it would be nice if you at least tried the original rules or pool before subscribing to "just how it is" and thinking it's somehow the best. Promoters changed the rules, not players, or a committee guarding the game's integrity. I have nothing against the "one foul" rules for tournament that need to be quicker or have a more even "playing field" - as a matter of fact one of my past partners in the pool room business came up with 'Texas Express Rules' for the McDermott tour.....they were never was intended for professional play, he told me that himself.
I know it's difficult to imagine my points if you don't have similar experiences as me.....so let me try to help, using analogies from other games/sports.
"Ball in Hand in Football" - on any foul the opposing team gets "ball in hand" and can pass to any player on the field without defense.
"Ball in Hand in Tennis" - on any foul the player can pick up the ball and throw it into the opponent's court for a winner.
"Ball in Hand in Golf" - on any foul the opposing player can pick up the golf ball and throw it at the hole until they make it.
"Ball in Hand in Basketball" - no more "free throws," instead the team gets to pick up the ball and walk it to the basket and make it like they're "pleased as punch".
"Ball in Hand in Baseball" - on any foul the player is allowed to pick up the ball, throw it up in the air and hit it as hard as they can over the fence.
How would these rules change the sports/games mentioned? Dramatically, and would cause mass chaos with the fans who like the pure game as it's played today.
This happened in pool and no one even noticed, it's like the frog that's boiled (without noticing) by slowly turning up the heat. 'The Real Game is the Teacher'
I appreciate your opinion, however, it would be nice if you at least tried the original rules or pool before subscribing to "just how it is" and thinking it's somehow the best. Promoters changed the rules, not players, or a committee guarding the game's integrity. I have nothing against the "one foul" rules for tournament that need to be quicker or have a more even "playing field" - as a matter of fact one of my past partners in the pool room business came up with 'Texas Express Rules' for the McDermott tour.....they were never was intended for professional play, he told me that himself.
I know it's difficult to imagine my points if you don't have similar experiences as me.....so let me try to help, using analogies from other games/sports.
"Ball in Hand in Football" - on any foul the opposing team gets "ball in hand" and can pass to any player on the field without defense.
"Ball in Hand in Tennis" - on any foul the player can pick up the ball and throw it into the opponent's court for a winner.
"Ball in Hand in Golf" - on any foul the opposing player can pick up the golf ball and throw it at the hole until they make it.
"Ball in Hand in Basketball" - no more "free throws," instead the team gets to pick up the ball and walk it to the basket and make it like they're "pleased as punch".
"Ball in Hand in Baseball" - on any foul the player is allowed to pick up the ball, throw it up in the air and hit it as hard as they can over the fence.
How would these rules change the sports/games mentioned? Dramatically, and would cause mass chaos with the fans who like the pure game as it's played today.
This happened in pool and no one even noticed, it's like the frog that's boiled (without noticing) by slowly turning up the heat. 'The Real Game is the Teacher'
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I respectfully disagree. The Bonus Ball guys bet a lot of money on the idea that all you needed to make pool grow was a better game. In fact, in the eyes of many, they invented a game that was enormously challenging and that provided a stiff test of skills even for the most accomplished professionals. Unfortunately, switching games was not the solution to pool's woes, and the Bonus Ball venture didn't work out. As many of us anticipated, a game unfamiliar to John Q Amateur pool player would never put pro pool on the map.
Every game but eight ball, the one game that is well known in America, is broken because of its obscurity.
The problem with pool is not the game itself but how poorly it has been sold.
PS The most exciting US Open 9-ball event I've ever seen was the just completed one, and it was played with Texas Express rules.
CJ wants people to watch pool. It would be nice to get people to play pool.
They are related.
they have a dramatic "ripple effect" on pool's entertainment value.
Of course the changes include more components than the "ball in hand" - I'm just pointing this out because it's the most apparent, and it is a major flaw that must be addressed. Making the game so easy has changed how it can be presented and ultimately handcuffs the entire industry. The answer is not simply making it harder, it's changing it to bring out the most important factors (entertainment wise) and eliminate the problem areas (breaking, racking, boring, slow paced, etc).
Reducing the importance of the rack/break is a major component that needs to change and I could write a short story on the reasons why......many are easy to detect and "surface structure," however, there is some deep structure issues too, and they have a dramatic "ripple effect" on pool's entertainment value.
[/QUOTE]
Of course the changes include more components than the "ball in hand" - I'm just pointing this out because it's the most apparent, and it is a major flaw that must be addressed. Making the game so easy has changed how it can be presented and ultimately handcuffs the entire industry. The answer is not simply making it harder, it's changing it to bring out the most important factors (entertainment wise) and eliminate the problem areas (breaking, racking, boring, slow paced, etc).
Reducing the importance of the rack/break is a major component that needs to change and I could write a short story on the reasons why......many are easy to detect and "surface structure," however, there is some deep structure issues too, and they have a dramatic "ripple effect" on pool's entertainment value.
[/QUOTE]
High school programs work well. Just one thing needs to be solved. WHICH manufacturer will build a highly portable, easy set-up and level, commercial grade , customizable billiard table for in school installation for EDUCATIONAL and COMPETIVE use. TWO and only two tables needed per school. If you can do it contact me. Earl Munson 972-757-8384. Want to watch billiards take off. Build these.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA9rQ4XWOzs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA9rQ4XWOzs
Attachments
I think right now we have folks playing pool, but not watching it. How many folks actually play baseball or football? A tiny fraction of those who watch it in my opinion. The money is int the spectator sports. I dont know about the insider politics of it, but I think bonus ball was on the right track.
This. The whole industry ought to be supporting Earl Munson and this initiative. Wu Chia Ching won the WPA Matchroom World 9 Ball Championships when he was in high school. Because pool is a sport offered in his high school. His classmate? Ko Pin Yi.
My daughter's kindergarten has MacBook Airs in abundance for kids to use. If Apple can support education in schools with twenty+ Macbooks then surely the combined billiard manufacturers can come up with a way to put pool tables in high schools and the rest of the industry figure out how to put instructors on those tables.
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That's a funny comparison. Apple probably made more profit in the time it took me to write this than the entire billiard industry makes in a year. And those schools buy the laptops.
(Just for kicks I tried to figure it out, and at 50 billion profit a year, that's about $100,000 per minute, which probably is more than the entire billiard industry in the US.)
Yes they buy the laptops at a heavily discounted price. Apple has many incentives in place to get their computers into schools and kids familiar with Apple's products at a young age.
The billiard industry is worth about 500 million to 1 billion a year depending on who is doing the counting. So pretty tiny compared to Apple.
However any of these companies could own pool for a tiny fraction of their ad budget and still reach a couple million hardcore players and tens of millions of casual fans per year.
Corporate Incentive Program
The money is there for sure.
If Diamond can build racks to carry and store pool tables in a tractor trailer truck. Why couldn't a School own and store their tables in those racks. The tables could have felt bottom feet and when laid down on a large roll out carpet or cloth surface that gets thrown out on the gym floor.....you have instant Pool Room! You have plenty of lights.
How many tables would you need? How many tables would get bought for home use because of those tables that would last from year to year?
If the pool tables were sold under a program where donations to the school club or fundraisers paid payments....Diamond gets paid....Schools get pool.....Tide Rises in Pool.....the rising tide raises all ships.
The money is there for sure.
If Diamond can build racks to carry and store pool tables in a tractor trailer truck. Why couldn't a School own and store their tables in those racks. The tables could have felt bottom feet and when laid down on a large roll out carpet or cloth surface that gets thrown out on the gym floor.....you have instant Pool Room! You have plenty of lights.
How many tables would you need? How many tables would get bought for home use because of those tables that would last from year to year?
If the pool tables were sold under a program where donations to the school club or fundraisers paid payments....Diamond gets paid....Schools get pool.....Tide Rises in Pool.....the rising tide raises all ships.
My vision and with 13 years of high school billiards experience realizes this must be done to REALLY promote billiards to the schools.
Install TWO customizable billiard tables in a school, educational and competitive team programs could be installed along with all the necessary billiard curriculums for Geometry, Physics, and Physical Education teachers, team competition uniforms and equipment , and certified instructional support.
A complete Billiard EDUCATIONAL and COMPETITION PACKAGE for customized for EACH high school.
This has been done in a small scale. Lets do it in a larger coordinated way.
Through the BEF www.billiardeducation.org this can be possible in the future for the ENTIRE U.S. with financial commitments from the billiard industry AND PLAYERS as a whole.
Can you imagine what $1 a YEAR from each league player to go to an organization that would specialize in CREATING new players. Billiard retailers and manufacturers coming together to expand the junior market.
The APA, BCAPL, ACS, TAP, USAPL, VNEA and ALL the other GREAT leagues out there coming together for the BETTER of our sport. Is it possible? I think it is.
Right now there is too much B.S. .politics and turf protecting in this billiard industry. EVERYBODY wins when juniors play.
Keep the bar billiard leagues and retail sales GROWING by looking to the future and expand the industry in a common sense approach. Juniors WILL buy products and may eventually play in one of your leagues. That is a FACT.
There is enough for everyone to GROW their businesses when the demographic base is EXPANDED to INCLUDE the YOUTH market here in the U.S.
Listen up entreprenuers...it is untapped. Thinking outside the box as one CBS news anchor put it when they did a segment story on billiards in Dallas high schools entitled "How Billiards Helps Students with Their Math Scores."
The current billiard industry sports model is to grow by STARTING with players beginning to play the game normally at 21 years of age or by players being introduced to the game by home billiard tables (theirs, friends, or families). That is when they can go into a bar. That is CRAZY. Billiards/pool is NOT one dimensional.
The stigma is now GONE through successful high school programs that worked and got good positive exposure. Hard work by the BEF and other great people to make it possible TODAY. The high schools were thrilled to have an alternative sport that they could offer their student bodies. They WANT this! They NEED this alternative sport.
The BEF is neutral and a non-profit that is recognized by the WPA. Support it. Donate to it.
Watch the organization grow and you will see tremendous strides in getting billiards from a BAR GAME, to legitimate sports status.
In 1998 the IOC recognized billiards as a legitimate sport. The American people do not. They see it as a game in a bar, or some ones house that is fun but have NO clue to the history or the real intricacies of the game. Ask a majority of people to name ONE pro pool player. Forget it. Why?
There is NO grassroots training of the rules and hierarchy of the sport. Too many "we are the governing body". The Billiard industry needs to change the perception of billiards at a basic young age. Educate them on who the best in the world are and WHY they are.
Change billiards perceptions by showing the general public that billiards can also give juniors an alternative way to learn educational subjects via billiards practice and play.
Use billiards as an unconventional teaching tool to educate students in a DIFFERENT way to introduce them to and have them excel in subjects like Geometry and Physics.
A practical hands on approach that students will remember by using billiard examples. Ex: Geometry- Here is a point, a segment, an angle, an obtuse angle, a shape, a triangle, etc.
Have the table with interchangeable rail templates for different classes. Pop of the Geometry rail template and put on Physics rail templates. Pop them off and put team rail templates for inter-school competition.
Tables with school colors. Imprinted mascot logos with cloth in schools colors.
Wake up billiard table manufacturers. 972-757-8384 Earl Munson
Install TWO customizable billiard tables in a school, educational and competitive team programs could be installed along with all the necessary billiard curriculums for Geometry, Physics, and Physical Education teachers, team competition uniforms and equipment , and certified instructional support.
A complete Billiard EDUCATIONAL and COMPETITION PACKAGE for customized for EACH high school.
This has been done in a small scale. Lets do it in a larger coordinated way.
Through the BEF www.billiardeducation.org this can be possible in the future for the ENTIRE U.S. with financial commitments from the billiard industry AND PLAYERS as a whole.
Can you imagine what $1 a YEAR from each league player to go to an organization that would specialize in CREATING new players. Billiard retailers and manufacturers coming together to expand the junior market.
The APA, BCAPL, ACS, TAP, USAPL, VNEA and ALL the other GREAT leagues out there coming together for the BETTER of our sport. Is it possible? I think it is.
Right now there is too much B.S. .politics and turf protecting in this billiard industry. EVERYBODY wins when juniors play.
Keep the bar billiard leagues and retail sales GROWING by looking to the future and expand the industry in a common sense approach. Juniors WILL buy products and may eventually play in one of your leagues. That is a FACT.
There is enough for everyone to GROW their businesses when the demographic base is EXPANDED to INCLUDE the YOUTH market here in the U.S.
Listen up entreprenuers...it is untapped. Thinking outside the box as one CBS news anchor put it when they did a segment story on billiards in Dallas high schools entitled "How Billiards Helps Students with Their Math Scores."
The current billiard industry sports model is to grow by STARTING with players beginning to play the game normally at 21 years of age or by players being introduced to the game by home billiard tables (theirs, friends, or families). That is when they can go into a bar. That is CRAZY. Billiards/pool is NOT one dimensional.
The stigma is now GONE through successful high school programs that worked and got good positive exposure. Hard work by the BEF and other great people to make it possible TODAY. The high schools were thrilled to have an alternative sport that they could offer their student bodies. They WANT this! They NEED this alternative sport.
The BEF is neutral and a non-profit that is recognized by the WPA. Support it. Donate to it.
Watch the organization grow and you will see tremendous strides in getting billiards from a BAR GAME, to legitimate sports status.
In 1998 the IOC recognized billiards as a legitimate sport. The American people do not. They see it as a game in a bar, or some ones house that is fun but have NO clue to the history or the real intricacies of the game. Ask a majority of people to name ONE pro pool player. Forget it. Why?
There is NO grassroots training of the rules and hierarchy of the sport. Too many "we are the governing body". The Billiard industry needs to change the perception of billiards at a basic young age. Educate them on who the best in the world are and WHY they are.
Change billiards perceptions by showing the general public that billiards can also give juniors an alternative way to learn educational subjects via billiards practice and play.
Use billiards as an unconventional teaching tool to educate students in a DIFFERENT way to introduce them to and have them excel in subjects like Geometry and Physics.
A practical hands on approach that students will remember by using billiard examples. Ex: Geometry- Here is a point, a segment, an angle, an obtuse angle, a shape, a triangle, etc.
Have the table with interchangeable rail templates for different classes. Pop of the Geometry rail template and put on Physics rail templates. Pop them off and put team rail templates for inter-school competition.
Tables with school colors. Imprinted mascot logos with cloth in schools colors.
Wake up billiard table manufacturers. 972-757-8384 Earl Munson
Attachments
Mark Griffin, great initial post by the way.
The billiard industry needs to SERIOUSLY have discussions on how to expand the market.
To me it is very sad in the state the industry has come to. I am the Team Leader for the U.S. and Canada Juniors going to China in two weeks and there has been VERY little support for these juniors going. Jeanette Lee tried hard along with a few others with limited success. Absolutely a shame in my opinion.
The juniors should be a high priority within the industry.
The billiard industry needs to SERIOUSLY have discussions on how to expand the market.
To me it is very sad in the state the industry has come to. I am the Team Leader for the U.S. and Canada Juniors going to China in two weeks and there has been VERY little support for these juniors going. Jeanette Lee tried hard along with a few others with limited success. Absolutely a shame in my opinion.
The juniors should be a high priority within the industry.
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