Do pro`s use squirt and throw far more than amateurs to pocket balls and move the cue ball ? I think amateurs "cut " angles shots where as pro`s use another process which negates collision induces throw effects. Am I wrong ? Whats your opinion ?
Squirt and Swerve
- Thread starter Seneca Steve
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I think Amateurs and Professionals both make the ball how they know how to make the ball with a cue that they have in their hands.
I would not doubt that while some professionals, like Stevie Moore, are thinking about their PSR and aiming, Efren is just shooting the ball. If you want to use "squirt and swerve" to make the ball, go for it, but lumping all professionals and amateurs into a broad category of whether they do or don't is just plain stupid.
I would not doubt that while some professionals, like Stevie Moore, are thinking about their PSR and aiming, Efren is just shooting the ball. If you want to use "squirt and swerve" to make the ball, go for it, but lumping all professionals and amateurs into a broad category of whether they do or don't is just plain stupid.
If a pro and a C player have the exact same shot, the only way for the CB to end up in the EXACT same spot is for both players to hit it EXACTLY the same. There is no secret the pro knows. (Of course I'm talking about a shot both players can execute. Obviously a pro can execute tons more shots). A nuance to this is the balls have to be struck at the same speed. You can different hits on the CB coupled with a different stroke speed and get the same final CB landing spot on the table.
But for example in a game of 1 pocket where the OB speed is very significant, as opposed to 9 ball, the only way for the same CB final resting spot is for the C player and the Pro to do everything the same.
But for example in a game of 1 pocket where the OB speed is very significant, as opposed to 9 ball, the only way for the same CB final resting spot is for the C player and the Pro to do everything the same.
your reply is noted. I have been taught all my life that no question is STUPID. I did not appreciate that !!!!!!!
So take the fact that not all people are taught the same. Appreciate the fact that I gave you my opinion, input if you will. That's what you wanted, right?
If I understand correctly, I think they do on routine shots. Most of the time spin is dictated by the position and angle you're trying to get, however, I think that most upper level players favor one side of the ball or another for routine cut shots anyway. It's a very subtle effect and it gives the player a better sense of control over the shot, both the object ball and the cue ball. I might be talking about a quarter to a half tip off center. I am not a pro but I personally hit almost all shots above or below the equator, and almost all cut shots favoring one side of the center line or another. I've noticed the same with pro players. On difficult long shots, all this is out the window. You want to use as little English as possible on long shots if you want to make them.
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Some pros use a sort of favoring english, either a bit outside or inside, to help negate or compensate for cut induced throw. This is a personal preference and requires discipline and experience to use correctly, as different speeds, distances, angles, etc. will need to be taken into account. For amateurs, it can be a much tougher method, that 1/8 to 1/4 tip of favoring english can quickly become 1/2 tip or more and cause inconsistencies.
I like to watch the snooker players, english 8 ballers, etc. They tend to keep things on the vertical axis a lot more, using speed and variations of draw, follow, stun draw, stun follow, etc. to move the cue ball around. They cut balls just fine without english, and are very adept at cutting balls very slowly into the pocket. I presume they are just lining up a little thinner on the ball to compensate for CIT, something I've been working on as well. It seems a little more consistent than applying english all the time, but good to know both techniques for sure.
Scott
I like to watch the snooker players, english 8 ballers, etc. They tend to keep things on the vertical axis a lot more, using speed and variations of draw, follow, stun draw, stun follow, etc. to move the cue ball around. They cut balls just fine without english, and are very adept at cutting balls very slowly into the pocket. I presume they are just lining up a little thinner on the ball to compensate for CIT, something I've been working on as well. It seems a little more consistent than applying english all the time, but good to know both techniques for sure.
Scott
To answer the OP's question, I'd say no, pros don't use squirt/spin/deflection more than amatuers, they use it more effectiveley. I was thinking about this very question last weekend during a regional tour stop, watching pros and amatuers playing 8 ball...paying attention to the way they all played similar standard patterns, the pros tended to shoot shots where the OB shot in relatively firm (but not TOO fast), yet the CB only traveled as far as needed. The pros under ran shots more than over ran, usually. The top amatuers tended to slow roll more shots, yet the CB had much the same action and ended up in the same general location. They tended to over run leaves more than under run them. My conclusion is that the pros are killing their CB a little more and thereby holding control, and the amatuers were tending toward pocket speed and letting the table conditions run the CB. The only way I see that happening is by checking the CB, more energy is spent at the contact and then the CB speed post collision is similar to the finesse shots we think of if we just roll them pocket speed.
I don't play one pocket, but I acknowledge finesse shots are a VERY key component/tool for that game, so a muscular game might not work very well and the difference in using squirt/deflection would be less regardless of the skill level.
I don't play one pocket, but I acknowledge finesse shots are a VERY key component/tool for that game, so a muscular game might not work very well and the difference in using squirt/deflection would be less regardless of the skill level.
squirt and swerve
I will give some lessons on how to shoot straight,then you want have to squirt and swerve.lol
I will give some lessons on how to shoot straight,then you want have to squirt and swerve.lol
Most all "advanced" players are more aware of the "swerve/squirt/throw/deflection" phenomenons then "amateurs",and depending on their familiarity with the characteristics of the Q stick their using (as well as the balls/table conditions/cloth type/humidity ect ect ect), they can use this as an advantage in playing certain shots.
At the higher levels it all becomes "second nature" to players for the mental/physical adjustment required in aiming and stroke .
But for the most part , "simplicity in execution" is still key to keeping alot of the extraneous physics out of the factor for all players. (good players know this very well)
At the higher levels it all becomes "second nature" to players for the mental/physical adjustment required in aiming and stroke .
But for the most part , "simplicity in execution" is still key to keeping alot of the extraneous physics out of the factor for all players. (good players know this very well)
you know where you can stick it Danny
Thank you for your post. Some of the children on here are annoying posters.
RBC
Deceased
All shots involving any side spin will have at least some squirt, swerve and throw involved.
Regardless of whether it's Corey Deuel or the guy next door who put himself through college playing pool on the other end of the cue, physics are physics.
The difference between Corey and that "other guy" is execution.
The better players have better understanding and control of all aspects of the shot.
Royce
Regardless of whether it's Corey Deuel or the guy next door who put himself through college playing pool on the other end of the cue, physics are physics.
The difference between Corey and that "other guy" is execution.
The better players have better understanding and control of all aspects of the shot.
Royce
Good post Royce.
Concerning the "understanding" that allows for accurate and consistent "execution," top players consciously, instinctively or intuitively know all of the effects demonstrated, illustrated and listed here:
squirt, swerve and throw effects resource page
Players that are not so good don't understand this stuff and have trouble using sidespin effectively (or they don't use it at all ... on purpose anyway).
Regards,
Dave
Imho, most pros try to minimize squirt, swerve and the throw extremes as much as is practicable.
Just watched a lot of high def snooker last week and Ronnie, Judd, Robertson were all swiping their 7/8 and 3/4 ball cuts to apply some gearing english, to reduce throw and offset potential kicks /skids.
Someone mentioned above that touch of inside reduces throw... the opposite is true in nearly all cases. Extreme inside english usually does however.
Just watched a lot of high def snooker last week and Ronnie, Judd, Robertson were all swiping their 7/8 and 3/4 ball cuts to apply some gearing english, to reduce throw and offset potential kicks /skids.
Someone mentioned above that touch of inside reduces throw... the opposite is true in nearly all cases. Extreme inside english usually does however.