From a spectator's perspective, it was an awesome event. The semi-finals and finals featured four great players: Edgie Geronimo, Vilmos Foldes, Rodney Morris and Mika Immomen. The final match between Edgie and Vilmos was an electric display of technical expertise. The crowd loved it. Sure hope there was no financial flim-flammery involved because Southern California desperately needs events like these.
Swanee payouts
- Thread starter Keith Jawahir
- Start date
Awesome news... You will be taking over the Swanee post haste I assume. Keep it up and you may have to.. Should we expect 4k or 10k added? Inquiring minds and all......
I could. Being that I help promote pool constantly, sponsor players, events, tournaments, run/organize/promote monthly and sometimes weekly events across multiple venues, leagues, across the country, oh and I help organize, promote, and advertise an entire tour known as the Mezz West State Tour which is the best thing to happen to pool since the invention of forums that allow people to make assumtions about others..
So to answer your assumtion - I kinda could. But you already knew that, since you clearly know me.
Hi, are you part of CSI or the party who ran the Swanee? I though you did something for Accu-stat?
No malice in my post .. just wanted a clarification on who's who and who's representing the "official" CSI POV (see what I did there?). I know, so far, MG and Ozzy are CSI for sure ... and JCIN sometimes.
It would be cool to have full disclosure on all of those connected to C.S.I. in some way or another.
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Poolplayergreg
Registered
I believe CSI does not allow HardTimes to charge admission into HardTimes, For the other big tournaments HardTimes has they do charge admission,
HardTimes reserves some "VIP" seats for people who want to purchase them.
its about 30 seats at $10-$15 a piece. for the day.
they do very well during the Swanee.
HardTimes reserves some "VIP" seats for people who want to purchase them.
its about 30 seats at $10-$15 a piece. for the day.
they do very well during the Swanee.
WELCOME BACK, Mark! i can hear that new set of lungs you got, yelling through the keyboard!
Ahaha. I have heard this so many times. I love how mad people get at places with kitchens stopping them. I was on a league team a few years ago out of a bar that had a killer kitchen. Full menu and known for some of the best wings and plates on the area, at bar food prices. Great business and they are doing well.
The other team walked to Burger King and brought that in because "your place is too expensive!"
Absolute classiness.
lol I'd love to see people try that at an Olive Garden.
"Hey, your place is a little too pricey so I brought this Stouffer's Chicken Alfredo. You mind popping it in the microwave for me? Oh, and don't forget to stir."
A buddy of mine just bought the local APA league & a league player came up to him and was asking about making "all these places" keep their tables in top condition (refelt, clean, etc) which are all reasonable things to want. But, he only plays out of places that will give him free pool on league day and, never eats or drinks anything. People are amazing, ones mere presence doesn't make an establishment any money. He won't spend a dime except buy 1 beer so he can get a free house round and now he has demands?!?! I understand not everyone has the money for several drinks and food, but understand then that your demands should (and will) fall on deaf ears. And you'll look like a real jerk.
Full Disclosure??
"Full disclosure is given in advance.."
If in fact that is true then where is said disclosure? Would it really be too much to ask to have a full and complete explanation as to how the prize money is determined and where every cent will go prior to the event taking place? That would eliminate any question of impropriety after the event has taken place. Seems easy enough to me...jmho :grin-square:. Why not just base added money on a per player basis? $5000
192=$26.04 so added $ on 164 should have been $4270.83. Very simple and it takes all the mystery out of the equation!
"Full disclosure is given in advance.."
If in fact that is true then where is said disclosure? Would it really be too much to ask to have a full and complete explanation as to how the prize money is determined and where every cent will go prior to the event taking place? That would eliminate any question of impropriety after the event has taken place. Seems easy enough to me...jmho :grin-square:. Why not just base added money on a per player basis? $5000
192=$26.04 so added $ on 164 should have been $4270.83. Very simple and it takes all the mystery out of the equation!
I'm tired of all the accounting gimmicks promoters use to make their events sound great. Let's be honest - that's all this is. I've grown to accept this after crunching the numbers for many of the bigger regional amateur events, but it's sad that pros have to deal with this too.
Why not just charge a $5 Registration Fee and then $85 Green Fee/Admin Fee? This way you could then turn around and add $14k to the tourney.
That would sound great on a flyer, especially if you just don't disclose the Green Fee/Admin Fee part.
No reasonable person begrudges the promotional team from making a profit off the tournament. However, the PRETEND added money is a joke. Do we really need some Sarbanes-Oxley legislation passed for pool promotion?
Enough with the Added Money nonsense. There was ZERO, ZIP, NADA added money for this tournament. ALL of the cash came from the players. All of it!
Stop with the nonsense.
***Edit****
I may have jumped the gun. I'm not so sure my frustration is so well placed in this instance. Still thinking about it. See post 45.
Why not just charge a $5 Registration Fee and then $85 Green Fee/Admin Fee? This way you could then turn around and add $14k to the tourney.
That would sound great on a flyer, especially if you just don't disclose the Green Fee/Admin Fee part.
No reasonable person begrudges the promotional team from making a profit off the tournament. However, the PRETEND added money is a joke. Do we really need some Sarbanes-Oxley legislation passed for pool promotion?
Enough with the Added Money nonsense. There was ZERO, ZIP, NADA added money for this tournament. ALL of the cash came from the players. All of it!
Stop with the nonsense.
***Edit****
I may have jumped the gun. I'm not so sure my frustration is so well placed in this instance. Still thinking about it. See post 45.
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This prize fund and "added money" advertising stuff is unique to pool. In my opinion, it's a bad idea. I don't think added money or costs should be advertised or discussed. There are only two important numbers, the entrance fee and the payouts. Players can decide on these numbers if they want to enter.
Most players in the Swanee are not playing for the money. They are playing for the challenge and experience. The pros play for the money, but face it, they will easily beat 90% of the entrants, who are mostly good local players but not pros. I don't think you'll hear Mika complaining about the payouts when he can spot 90% of the field the 6 ball.
Businesses need profits to survive.
Most players in the Swanee are not playing for the money. They are playing for the challenge and experience. The pros play for the money, but face it, they will easily beat 90% of the entrants, who are mostly good local players but not pros. I don't think you'll hear Mika complaining about the payouts when he can spot 90% of the field the 6 ball.
Businesses need profits to survive.
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Take a local tournament. Say the buyin is $20. $15 goes to the prize pool and $5 to the tournament director for running the tournament. The tournament is advertised as $5 per player added. That $5 per player is added by the room and has nothing to do with the $5 which went to the tournament director. It is merely a coincidence that it is the same amount.
In the above scenario, the money is added by a third party. I am not sure why people are so upset about this. The tournament could just pay out the $15 per player and the room not contribute anything at all.
CSI - Ozzy
Banned
Payouts
OK people, please allow me to break everything down to end the speculation.
Players: 164
Entry Fee Breakdown
Prize Fund Portion: $60
Registration Fee: $21
Green Fee (to the house): $6
Credit Card Processing Fee: $3
Total Entry Fee: $90 ($60 + $21 + $6 + $3)
Payout Breakdown
Total Prize Fund Collected: $9,840 ($60 x 164)
Added Money: $4,000
Total Payout: $13,840
Now, let's see how much money CSI made from this event. These numbers are close approximations as we have not yet completed a detailed accounting.
EXPENSES
Employee pay (2 employees @ 4 days) = $800
Hotel (1 room @ 3 nights) = $210
Food = $100
Gas = $60
Create Event Flyer = $115
Create Event Webpage = $60
Employee Pay for Processing Entries = $300
Print Flyers (850) = $50
Envelopes = $30
Stuffing Envelopes (1 employee @ 4 hours) = $60
Postage (850 mailings) = $400
Added Money to Prize Fund = $4,000
Total Expenses = $6,185
REVENUE
Registration Fees ($21 x 164 players) = $3,444
1/2 of Vendor Rent = $200
Late Fees ($15 x 62 players) = $930
Total Revenue = $4,574
Total Profit to CSI: - $1,611 ($4,574 - $6,185)
FINAL THOUGHTS
A little inside information for all of you...this event was within a whisker of being cancelled this year because we all knew it would be a financial loser. However, CSI and specifically Mark Griffin, have routinely been willing to take financial losses in order to offer events and opportunities for pool players. It's amazing...just a week or so after I started working for CSI, the 2014 Swanee was conducted. After the event, Mark Griffin reviewed the financials and walked out of his office with a big smile and said, "Wow...we didn't lose as much money on the Swanee this year!" I know I have a biased opinion but it is sad when a person or company is willing to repeatedly dig into their pocket to cover an event and then is called "a crooked promoter."
On top of all that, in an attempt to stop the idiocy, Mark Griffin (who just had both lungs replaced), made a post with some inaccurate information while heavily medicated and a few of you jump on like a pack of wolves. That's sad. Is there any wonder that pool tournaments are disappearing?
OK people, please allow me to break everything down to end the speculation.
Players: 164
Entry Fee Breakdown
Prize Fund Portion: $60
Registration Fee: $21
Green Fee (to the house): $6
Credit Card Processing Fee: $3
Total Entry Fee: $90 ($60 + $21 + $6 + $3)
Payout Breakdown
Total Prize Fund Collected: $9,840 ($60 x 164)
Added Money: $4,000
Total Payout: $13,840
Now, let's see how much money CSI made from this event. These numbers are close approximations as we have not yet completed a detailed accounting.
EXPENSES
Employee pay (2 employees @ 4 days) = $800
Hotel (1 room @ 3 nights) = $210
Food = $100
Gas = $60
Create Event Flyer = $115
Create Event Webpage = $60
Employee Pay for Processing Entries = $300
Print Flyers (850) = $50
Envelopes = $30
Stuffing Envelopes (1 employee @ 4 hours) = $60
Postage (850 mailings) = $400
Added Money to Prize Fund = $4,000
Total Expenses = $6,185
REVENUE
Registration Fees ($21 x 164 players) = $3,444
1/2 of Vendor Rent = $200
Late Fees ($15 x 62 players) = $930
Total Revenue = $4,574
Total Profit to CSI: - $1,611 ($4,574 - $6,185)
FINAL THOUGHTS
A little inside information for all of you...this event was within a whisker of being cancelled this year because we all knew it would be a financial loser. However, CSI and specifically Mark Griffin, have routinely been willing to take financial losses in order to offer events and opportunities for pool players. It's amazing...just a week or so after I started working for CSI, the 2014 Swanee was conducted. After the event, Mark Griffin reviewed the financials and walked out of his office with a big smile and said, "Wow...we didn't lose as much money on the Swanee this year!" I know I have a biased opinion but it is sad when a person or company is willing to repeatedly dig into their pocket to cover an event and then is called "a crooked promoter."
On top of all that, in an attempt to stop the idiocy, Mark Griffin (who just had both lungs replaced), made a post with some inaccurate information while heavily medicated and a few of you jump on like a pack of wolves. That's sad. Is there any wonder that pool tournaments are disappearing?
CSI - Ozzy
Banned
Classy
Daniel, see post #38 which should clarify all of the inaccurate information you have posted here. The structure of this event was almost identical to last year. Last year, you had no complaints because you were paid by CSI to stream the event. According to your Facebook posts, you were not very happy that you didn't get the contract this year and here you are bashing us. Way to keep it classy and professional.
Daniel, see post #38 which should clarify all of the inaccurate information you have posted here. The structure of this event was almost identical to last year. Last year, you had no complaints because you were paid by CSI to stream the event. According to your Facebook posts, you were not very happy that you didn't get the contract this year and here you are bashing us. Way to keep it classy and professional.
Says a lot about the griping right there. Late registration from 40% of the entrants. Haha.